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Orr vs. Harvey

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12-06-2005, 01:44 PM
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Big Phil
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Orr vs. Harvey

A few years back I was listening to a radio call in show asking who was the best defenseman ever. Most said Orr, in fact the only one I remember not saying Orr was an older sounding man who felt Harvey was better. His reason was that Orr may have been offensive but he couldnt stop Gordie Howe in his tracks the way that Harvey could. Meaning that harvey was more well rounded.

I'll be the first to admit that Harvey is my second pick as the best defenseman ever followed by Shore. But I wouldnt put him over Orr. But this isnt the first time I heard this one. Harvey, although its rare, is sometimes considered the best defenseman of all time.

Orr: 9 time all-star two time Cup winner, three time Hart Trophy winner, 8 straight Norris Trophies

Harvey: 12 time all-star, 6 time Cup winner, 8 time Norris Trophy winner.

Now keep in mind Orr had a shortened career where as Harvey's was normal. Harvey's Canadiens were better than orr's Bruins so he would have never won he Hart Trophy since guys like the Richards, Beliveau, Moore, Geoffrion and Plante were there. But he definetly didnt control a game the way Orr did. Orr killed penalties all by himself. Harvey could control a game but not in the way Orr could. Orr won scoring titles. And I dont know of any defenseman that will ever do that again.

To me its Orr #1, and Harvey #2. But I'd like to know who disagrees or agrees.

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12-06-2005, 02:45 PM
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Orr is clearly the best of all time. He is arguably the best player to ever strap on skates. Harvey is underrated perhaps as to how important he was to the 50's Habs though. In my mind he is the best player on that team, or at least the most valuable, even more than Beliveau, Plante or Richard. But he is not underrated as the 2nd best D-Man ever, that is right where he belongs.

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12-06-2005, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil
A few years back I was listening to a radio call in show asking who was the best defenseman ever. Most said Orr, in fact the only one I remember not saying Orr was an older sounding man who felt Harvey was better. His reason was that Orr may have been offensive but he couldnt stop Gordie Howe in his tracks the way that Harvey could. Meaning that harvey was more well rounded.

I'll be the first to admit that Harvey is my second pick as the best defenseman ever followed by Shore. But I wouldnt put him over Orr. But this isnt the first time I heard this one. Harvey, although its rare, is sometimes considered the best defenseman of all time.

Orr: 9 time all-star two time Cup winner, three time Hart Trophy winner, 8 straight Norris Trophies

Harvey: 12 time all-star, 6 time Cup winner, 8 time Norris Trophy winner.

Now keep in mind Orr had a shortened career where as Harvey's was normal. Harvey's Canadiens were better than orr's Bruins so he would have never won he Hart Trophy since guys like the Richards, Beliveau, Moore, Geoffrion and Plante were there. But he definetly didnt control a game the way Orr did. Orr killed penalties all by himself. Harvey could control a game but not in the way Orr could. Orr won scoring titles. And I dont know of any defenseman that will ever do that again.

To me its Orr #1, and Harvey #2. But I'd like to know who disagrees or agrees.
2 greats, no doubt. Im going to say Harvey simply because he invented the end to end rushes from defencemen which Orr perfected.
I see Harvey as more of a pioneer of the sport.

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12-06-2005, 05:41 PM
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Orr was by far a better skater and had better vision.

Both are about even in shooting.

Harvey was better at long breakout passes, Orr was better in tight.

Both were effective fighters.

Both were nearly impossible to beat one on one.

Harvey was by far the better hitter.

Orr had a coach who gave him the freedom to try what he wanted. Harvey had a coach (Toe Blake) who was always after Doug to play a more traditional style.

On the face of it it seems close, but Orr had an intangible something. Something that made you sit up and notice. You'd know when he had 4 assists and controlled a game. He had charisma and every once in while he would do something no other player had ever done or would have the guts to try. And it would work.

Harvey was the definition of the straw that stirred the drink. The Habs would start rush after rush and you'd always see Richard or Beliveau finish. Then you'd look at the score sheet and notice that Harvey had four assists and the other team's star was shut out.

Orr has to be #1. Harvey is clearly #2. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

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12-06-2005, 06:07 PM
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do dumb threads like this ever stop


take a break phil for the love of

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12-06-2005, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs_24x
2 greats, no doubt. Im going to say Harvey simply because he invented the end to end rushes from defencemen which Orr perfected.
I see Harvey as more of a pioneer of the sport.
I've always thought that Kelly was more of a rusher than Harvey. In fact by watching some classic games and reading some books, Harvey seemed to be a master at staying deep in the defensive zone and spreading out the opposition. He would draw players to him, free up his forwards and then send them long passes with opposing players caught up ice. Jean Beliveau has said that he was an on ice general and would only pass to you if you were skating.

On the subject at hand, there is just no comparison. Orr, IMO, is the best player ever. I do think that Harvey was better defensively though. I admit that I've only seen Harvey in about 12-15 games but alot of old timers seem to say that too. I'll never understand why he wasn't included in the Legends of Hockey DVD's.

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12-07-2005, 12:50 PM
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Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
do dumb threads like this ever stop


take a break phil for the love of

How is this a dumb post? There are a few who think that Harvey is better and I just wanted to know who. Besides this is a "Hockey" post in case you havent noticed. People that know Hockey talk Hockey here, not about Harry Potter!

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12-07-2005, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
do dumb threads like this ever stop


take a break phil for the love of
Do you have to be rude?

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12-07-2005, 03:08 PM
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He sent me a rude threatening private PM because he didn't like a post I made. I am thinking about putting him on ignore but he does have interesting things to say in his posts so I won't for now.

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12-07-2005, 03:10 PM
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everybody stay on subject..

and PMs are private...keep it that way.

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