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12-06-2005, 10:43 PM
  #1
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Jersey Wrap

Looking at the final shots and score, I'm surprised I'm not happier with the 5-2 win.
There were lots of good things to like about the game. But the team still showed some big weaknesses.

* I liked Zetterberg at center. I'd like to keep him there when Lang returns and let Lang play more like a shooting winger on Z's line.
Z did a great job on both ends of the rink today. Datsyuk ought to pay attention to the way Z goes and takes a guy in front of the net when the other team starts pressing.
He does need work on faceoffs.

* The Wings transition game BLOWS. Their puck movement through neutral ice is ugly and ineffective. Too many passes from the defense way in front or way behind the target. Stupid redirects off skates that have little chance of working. Passes three feet off the ground.
About the only play that gets the puck through the neutral zone and into the other zone is the one where Lidstrom makes that drop pass to Datsyuk at center and Datsyuk tries to slingshot up the ice.
That gets us in the zone, but very little else.

* Nice goal by Yzerman today. Great to hear the fans chanting "Stevie!" But I was a little shocked at how short some of Stevie's shifts were in the firs period. Up and down the ice once, and then a chance.
I also think that his knee, and not his groin, is the problem. In the last couple games, he actually looks like he's in pain out there.

* Shanny kicks in with two big goals. His contract renegotiation is going to be the Wings second biggest offseason issue.

* I wonder how many goals we score with Brodeur in net.

* I really thought we were going to lose that game, even when we were outshooting the Devils 17-3 or something. I just don't like the way this team moves the puck. I can't believe our passing isn't better.

* Chris Osgood made a few big saves and got a big win. Better than losing 6-5. But still, I don't like him. I can't stand the way he reacts to goals and bad plays. He constantly looks flustered. He hasn't changed since leaving Detroit. He sure doesn't seem to act like a veteran goaltender with over 300 wins and a Stanley Cup on his resume.

* After a good first period with no results, the Datsyuk/Hudler/Shanny line seemed to have problems in their own end. Then Babcock seemed to really cut their icetime as the game went on.
I liked what I saw of Hudler. Moves his feet a lot, even if he doesn't get anywhere terribly fast.

* The Wings tied the game on the PP after Matvichuk dumped the puck over the glass.
I can't stand that rule. With all the other rinky dink calls being made this year, I really can't stand that rule at all.

* Defensively, Matt Schneider has been brutal lately. He's been out of position on big goals and he's been coughing up the puck way too much.
It appears that we're just gonna have to live with the tradeoff.

* Dan Cleary had himself a nice game today.
Homer and Yzerman scored as the fourth line chipped in.

* The third line has what? 9 goals? And six of them are by Johan Franzen, who's offense has gone cold since being put on the third line.
Draper had three or four great opportunities to score and looked like he knew there was no way he was gonna put the puck in the net.

* Scott Gomez? Did he play today?

* How in the heck does Vladimir Malakov still look so damn good after all these years? And Mogilny looks good too.

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12-07-2005, 12:35 AM
  #2
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Both Vlad and Mogilny (even after hip surgery) will probably be great skaters forever....some guys are just born with skates on their feet. I'd take Zetterberg or Hudler with Mogilny's 36 year old legs any day. Schneider is officially horrible in his own end folks. Not only that, seems like he's good for one or two massive give-away's per game. Also, while this may be nit-picking, I like that Shanny is scoring goals but I dont like the way he's playing...hope that makes sense He's definitely in full sniper mode, but there's no edge or force to his game like there was at the start of the year. The goals he scored earlier this season were power forward goals, the goals surge he's had recently has been of the Brett Hull variety. I just hope when those kind of goals dry up he can get back to that grity game he played.

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12-07-2005, 12:46 AM
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Solid win from the Wings, we needed one!

Hudler only played 11/12 minutes in the game, not much if you ask me.

Yzerman with a sweet goal, nice to see that he still has some moves left. Osgood made some key saves, like you TinTan I also don't like Ozzy in goal but today he was solid and deserves another start next game.

You say that the defense doesn’t look good…that is the case all year now! We just have to live with it.

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12-07-2005, 12:57 AM
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cant expect hudler to be playing 15 mins his first call up when other vets are playing pretty good...

Hudler probably played more tonight then 2-3 games when lewis was coach... which shows a lot about babcock, he made it seam he wanted more youth and speed around here so he played hudler a good amount of mins in his first call up. IMO this was the perfect game ice time wise, this is how the guys should be, rotating datsyuk and zetterbergs minutes. Yzerman was pretty good for only seeing less then 10 mins or about 10 mins of playing time.

I was not around to see the game so i cannot comment on it, i just hope babcock does the right things with hudler

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12-07-2005, 02:42 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCanCommunications

* Chris Osgood made a few big saves and got a big win. Better than losing 6-5. But still, I don't like him. I can't stand the way he reacts to goals and bad plays. He constantly looks flustered. He hasn't changed since leaving Detroit. He sure doesn't seem to act like a veteran goaltender with over 300 wins and a Stanley Cup on his resume.

TinCan, can you just acknowledge that Ozzy played a solid game ?
Allright, the rebound on the second goal was horrible, but he after that he made several key saves to keep the Wings in the game.

And how should he react to a goal in your opinion ? Bang his helmet with his stick ?
What I see is a goalie he looks up at the screen to see the replay and see what went wrong. There are plenty of goalies who do the same.
Frankly, that's exactly the kind of reaction I want to see from a goalie. He should look at how the goal was made and how he can prevent it next time.
What's the use in staring at the ice after a goal ?

But hey.. if you don't like him, you'll always find something to criticize.. even after a good game.

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12-07-2005, 06:29 AM
  #6
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Gomez got whistled for a hand pass off a faceoff, that's the only reason I know he played.

Hudler looked ok. Dumb play running over the goalie, rookie mistake, but at least he's trying to muck it up and get around the crease. They didn't give him any PP time, which should be the right time to see what he can do. IMO, after the way Datsyuk played and has been playing, they should take a look at Hudler on the PP and bump Datsyuk off it until he starts playing hard again.

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12-07-2005, 01:02 PM
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Hey, no one mentioned that Dats was out on the PK last night! If he's going to be a classic Russian center as the first one back on D, might as well use him on the PK! Actually our PK looked really great last night. Ozzie had some incredible saves and did his share to notch one up in the win column for us.

I've been worrying about Schneider for some time now, his desire to be a forward (a la Jason Williams) and not a D-man anymore....yeah, 2-3 turnovers per game that REALLY hurt seems to be a bad trend he's developing. Lilja was way out of position on the Parise goal too , btw.

 
Old
12-07-2005, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by interminded
TinCan, can you just acknowledge that Ozzy played a solid game ?
Allright, the rebound on the second goal was horrible, but he after that he made several key saves to keep the Wings in the game.

And how should he react to a goal in your opinion ? Bang his helmet with his stick ?
What I see is a goalie he looks up at the screen to see the replay and see what went wrong. There are plenty of goalies who do the same.
Frankly, that's exactly the kind of reaction I want to see from a goalie. He should look at how the goal was made and how he can prevent it next time.
What's the use in staring at the ice after a goal ?

But hey.. if you don't like him, you'll always find something to criticize.. even after a good game.
Truth is, I don;t think Ozzie played very good. He didn't have to.
His rebounds are BRUTAL. How is it that a 21 year old Jim Howard can find ways to steer rebounds in the corner, but and 300 winner like Ozzie puts point shot rebounds right back into the slot?

Ozzie did have a solid game, i guess. But he doesn't play with confidence. He doesn't instill confidence.
Wings were down 2-1 despite a 20-5 shooting edge or something at one point.
We got fortunate that Matvichuck was called for dumping the puck over the glass and that Shanny tied it up.
Because this looked like a game Ozzie was gonna lose.

Honestly, don't you find it strange with Osgood in net? Doesn't it seem like the team is gonna start losing any second?

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12-07-2005, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Fugu
Hey, no one mentioned that Dats was out on the PK last night! If he's going to be a classic Russian center as the first one back on D, might as well use him on the PK! Actually our PK looked really great last night. Ozzie had some incredible saves and did his share to notch one up in the win column for us.

I've been worrying about Schneider for some time now, his desire to be a forward (a la Jason Williams) and not a D-man anymore....yeah, 2-3 turnovers per game that REALLY hurt seems to be a bad trend he's developing. Lilja was way out of position on the Parise goal too , btw.
Yeah, I was stunned to see Dats on the PK. The I realized that he was just coming out of the box himself.

I contend that one of Lidstrom's big problems this year (and really, since the same with Bykov and Dandenault) is that he's no longer so great that he can be paired up with a 6-7 defenseman and play Norris caliber hockey.

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12-07-2005, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCanCommunications
Honestly, don't you find it strange with Osgood in net? Doesn't it seem like the team is gonna start losing any second?
I could see the Wings doing that with anyone in net, whether it being lack of scoring goals, defensive breakdowns, etc. Other than Howard, who has been impressive in net; Manny could beat crap teams and Ozzie is still fighting himself or his groin or whatever.

It just cracks me up that even when the team wins by 3 goals, there still room left to ***** about the goaltending. The way the Wings have played of late, we should be happy they're winning at all.

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12-07-2005, 10:52 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by guinness
I could see the Wings doing that with anyone in net, whether it being lack of scoring goals, defensive breakdowns, etc. Other than Howard, who has been impressive in net; Manny could beat crap teams and Ozzie is still fighting himself or his groin or whatever.

It just cracks me up that even when the team wins by 3 goals, there still room left to ***** about the goaltending. The way the Wings have played of late, we should be happy they're winning at all.
Oh puhleeze, I'm not complaining about Ozzie's play in this game so much as I am saying that "even when he wins, he doesn't look like the kind of goalie we need"

Sorry, dude, but he doesn't.

If he was so good, Holland would have been able to get SOMETHING/ANYTHING/9thROUND PICK for Ozzie, who's salary wasn't CUJO-like.
Yet Holland couldn't find one taker. The only taker appeared to be the Islanders, who just waited for the waiver draft.
They got tired and shipped him to St. Louis for peanuts.
Ozzie went to St. Louis, where, in the playoffs, he staged another one of his playoff collapses, losing a series his team led 3-1.

If St. Louis thought he was any good, do you think they would have gone out and signed Lalime?
If anyone in the NHL thought he was any good, don't you think he'd have gotten an offer more than the $1m Detroit offered?

Chris Osgood's career is slipping away from him.

So now you know that I'm no fan of Osgood.

HOWEVER, I'm quickly developing a distaste for Manny Legace. And as much as I like Howard, I don't want to throw this kid to the wolves.

We;re stuck with Ozzie and Legace.
May the least worst goaltender play.

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12-08-2005, 12:10 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCanCommunications
Oh puhleeze, I'm not complaining about Ozzie's play in this game so much as I am saying that "even when he wins, he doesn't look like the kind of goalie we need"

Sorry, dude, but he doesn't.

If he was so good, Holland would have been able to get SOMETHING/ANYTHING/9thROUND PICK for Ozzie, who's salary wasn't CUJO-like.
Yet Holland couldn't find one taker. The only taker appeared to be the Islanders, who just waited for the waiver draft.
They got tired and shipped him to St. Louis for peanuts.
Ozzie went to St. Louis, where, in the playoffs, he staged another one of his playoff collapses, losing a series his team led 3-1.

If St. Louis thought he was any good, do you think they would have gone out and signed Lalime?
If anyone in the NHL thought he was any good, don't you think he'd have gotten an offer more than the $1m Detroit offered?

Chris Osgood's career is slipping away from him.

So now you know that I'm no fan of Osgood.

HOWEVER, I'm quickly developing a distaste for Manny Legace. And as much as I like Howard, I don't want to throw this kid to the wolves.

We;re stuck with Ozzie and Legace.
May the least worst goaltender play.

Well, at least you're honest, I'll give you that.

Maybe you're right.. maybe Ozzy doesn't play with the confidence he needs.
But his season hasn't been really what he expected from it, starting with an injury and not been able to competing for the number 1 spot.

But what not give this guy a bit of support ? What is so bad about that ?
Babcock too I must say. If he was so tough on every player on team as he is on Ozzy when they play subpar, you have a 5-man roster.

I'm fairly confident that Ozzy could be a bonafide #1 if he could play for, let's say two weeks in a row and find back his usual rhythm. He's not used to be a backup.
You could see that in the first 10 minutes of the NJ game. After that he played great.

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12-08-2005, 12:14 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by guinness
I could see the Wings doing that with anyone in net, whether it being lack of scoring goals, defensive breakdowns, etc. Other than Howard, who has been impressive in net; Manny could beat crap teams and Ozzie is still fighting himself or his groin or whatever.

It just cracks me up that even when the team wins by 3 goals, there still room left to ***** about the goaltending. The way the Wings have played of late, we should be happy they're winning at all.
Like I said earlier, Guiness: If someone doesn't like a goaltender, you can always find something to be negative about.
Don't be suprised....

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12-08-2005, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TinCanCommunications
Oh puhleeze, I'm not complaining about Ozzie's play in this game so much as I am saying that "even when he wins, he doesn't look like the kind of goalie we need"

Sorry, dude, but he doesn't.

If he was so good, Holland would have been able to get SOMETHING/ANYTHING/9thROUND PICK for Ozzie, who's salary wasn't CUJO-like.
Yet Holland couldn't find one taker. The only taker appeared to be the Islanders, who just waited for the waiver draft.
They got tired and shipped him to St. Louis for peanuts.
Ozzie went to St. Louis, where, in the playoffs, he staged another one of his playoff collapses, losing a series his team led 3-1.

If St. Louis thought he was any good, do you think they would have gone out and signed Lalime?
If anyone in the NHL thought he was any good, don't you think he'd have gotten an offer more than the $1m Detroit offered?

Chris Osgood's career is slipping away from him.

So now you know that I'm no fan of Osgood.

HOWEVER, I'm quickly developing a distaste for Manny Legace. And as much as I like Howard, I don't want to throw this kid to the wolves.

We;re stuck with Ozzie and Legace.
May the least worst goaltender play.
His career is slipping sooooo badly that he was named the Islanders' and Blues' team MVP his two healthy seasons outside of Detroit. In the playoffs against the Leafs he helped take the Isles to a game 7 in a war. Year one with the Blues the team fell apart due to injuries and the flu. Year two with the Blues they shouldn't even have made the playoffs but he and Pronger dragged them in and then were thoroughly outclassed by the Sharks and that Game 1 OT heartbreaker sank any hopes the Blues had (kinda like us Wings against the Ducks) and Pronger and Tkachuk literally handed Game 2 away on a silver platter combining for 10 PPs against. Sillinger's biggest game of his career kept it from being a sweep.

Healthy and in gameshape he's more than good enough and has many games left. He gets this bad rap because when he's off he's amazingly bad but it doesn't happen any more often than any other good goaltender. And when he's on he's a world beater.

I wasn't an Osgood fan until Wing fans kept ripping on him and ripping on him. Now I want nothing more than him to play as many games for as many years as possible (win or lose) just to piss the haters off.

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12-08-2005, 09:33 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
His career is slipping sooooo badly that he was named the Islanders' and Blues' team MVP his two healthy seasons outside of Detroit. In the playoffs against the Leafs he helped take the Isles to a game 7 in a war. Year one with the Blues the team fell apart due to injuries and the flu. Year two with the Blues they shouldn't even have made the playoffs but he and Pronger dragged them in and then were thoroughly outclassed by the Sharks and that Game 1 OT heartbreaker sank any hopes the Blues had (kinda like us Wings against the Ducks) and Pronger and Tkachuk literally handed Game 2 away on a silver platter combining for 10 PPs against. Sillinger's biggest game of his career kept it from being a sweep.

Healthy and in gameshape he's more than good enough and has many games left. He gets this bad rap because when he's off he's amazingly bad but it doesn't happen any more often than any other good goaltender. And when he's on he's a world beater.

I wasn't an Osgood fan until Wing fans kept ripping on him and ripping on him. Now I want nothing more than him to play as many games for as many years as possible (win or lose) just to piss the haters off.
I am truly not an Ozzy hater, my wife wouldn't have that. She adores Osgood and proof is hanging in our closet in the form of a signed jersey from Hockeytown Authentics. It is the only Red Wings jersey we own in fact. So I hope nobody takes what I'm about to say as blind criticism of Osgood.

Now, is Ozzy a world beater at his best? I don't see it. I can't think of one playoff series he ever stood on his head and pulled a team through. 1998 was the last time Osgood took a team past the 2nd round, and 2000 was the last time he was even in the 2nd round. And both of those years he was playing on the best team in hockey.

In contrast, there are several instances where Osgood had the chance to win a series and failed. He's never once beaten the Aves for example. He also lost game 7s for the Isles and Blues.

What I consider to be a world beater is a Hasek who carried a hapless Sabres team to the finals, or a Vanbiesbrouck who took a poor Panthers team to the promised land. Ron Hextall is a perfect example imo of an average goalie who was truly a world beater when he was on. In 87 he pushed possibly the greatest team ever assembled to the brink, but the Flyers just couldn't finish the job.

When Osgood is on, he is adequate imo - nothing more. But I also think he's off more than he's on and he doesn't have a good track record in elimination games. If we have to rely on Osgood in the playoffs I think we'll lose in the first round.

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12-08-2005, 11:56 AM
  #16
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If we have to rely on Osgood in the playoffs I think we'll lose in the first round.
If we have to rely on ANY goalie in the playoffs we'll lose in the first round. And I mean any. The Wings aren't built that way. If we aren't rolling along with strong offense and strong team defense it'll only be a matter of time before we lose. See two 0-1 losses to end the playoffs last year.

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12-08-2005, 12:03 PM
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I am not an Osgood fan by any means. He is what he is.

I just find fault in the way that he gets bashed for everything he does, while Manny continuosly gets a free pass from just about everyone on here.

What has Manny Legace accomplished in his career exactly? Call a spade a spade. When a goalie plays like garbage he should be criticized for it. Everyone definitly gets on Osgood. But when Manny plays poorly, its always "Oh well...get em next time Manny...we love you!"

Just be fair. Osgood has been the Detroit whipping boy for his entire Red Wing career. I used to be a part of it. But now I agree with NorrisNick. I root for the guy each and every night just because most other Red Wing fans dont.

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12-08-2005, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TinCanCommunications

* How in the heck does Vladimir Malakov still look so damn good after all these years? And Mogilny looks good too.
You can have them both for the alumni right's to Paul Ysebeart

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12-08-2005, 12:39 PM
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What is Kenny thinking?

So if the consensus seems that our goaltending is a weak spot, and that to get beyond the first round we need better, why isn't there more talk about who we should be trying to get?

I haven't ploughed through the trade talk here in the latest Wings segment, but if we were courting Khabibulin up to the $5.5 million mark last summer, wouldn't we be in the hunt for the Nabokov, Luongo, or other up and coming goalies in the league? If we never can get past Round 1 w/o a goalie of the caliber just mentioned, and I will throw in Kiprusoff and Vokoun as guys who carried teams further than their play otherwise would have taken them, don't you think Holland has telegraphed his intent a bit? I think Manny is on a 1-year (not sure though) but I know Ozzie only has a 1-year deal, and we all know we shed a ton of veteran contracts after this year. Holland can swing something, between some trades and maybe an earlier than expected retirement....who knows?

 
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12-08-2005, 01:22 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Fugu
So if the consensus seems that our goaltending is a weak spot, and that to get beyond the first round we need better, why isn't there more talk about who we should be trying to get?

I haven't ploughed through the trade talk here in the latest Wings segment, but if we were courting Khabibulin up to the $5.5 million mark last summer, wouldn't we be in the hunt for the Nabokov, Luongo, or other up and coming goalies in the league? If we never can get past Round 1 w/o a goalie of the caliber just mentioned, and I will throw in Kiprusoff and Vokoun as guys who carried teams further than their play otherwise would have taken them, don't you think Holland has telegraphed his intent a bit? I think Manny is on a 1-year (not sure though) but I know Ozzie only has a 1-year deal, and we all know we shed a ton of veteran contracts after this year. Holland can swing something, between some trades and maybe an earlier than expected retirement....who knows?
I believe you took my comments to mean something that I didn't intend. I'm not saying our goaltending is necessarily bad to the point that we cannot compete. I'm saying if the rest of the team plays so we have to depend on our goaltending we're in trouble. Goaltending hasn't been the make it or break it position for the Wings in a long long time. The level of play of the 18 guys in front of him will decide our fate as they have for a while now.

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12-08-2005, 01:26 PM
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But now I agree with NorrisNick. I root for the guy each and every night just because most other Red Wing fans dont.
Well said and count me in.

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12-08-2005, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu
So if the consensus seems that our goaltending is a weak spot, and that to get beyond the first round we need better, why isn't there more talk about who we should be trying to get?

I haven't ploughed through the trade talk here in the latest Wings segment, but if we were courting Khabibulin up to the $5.5 million mark last summer, wouldn't we be in the hunt for the Nabokov, Luongo, or other up and coming goalies in the league? If we never can get past Round 1 w/o a goalie of the caliber just mentioned, and I will throw in Kiprusoff and Vokoun as guys who carried teams further than their play otherwise would have taken them, don't you think Holland has telegraphed his intent a bit? I think Manny is on a 1-year (not sure though) but I know Ozzie only has a 1-year deal, and we all know we shed a ton of veteran contracts after this year. Holland can swing something, between some trades and maybe an earlier than expected retirement....who knows?
I think the reason it's not talked about is that the majority of goalies avaiable don't provide enough of an upgrade to make the added salary expenditure and the possible stalling of Howard's development to make it worth it. Luongo is really one of the few who would be worth it, but the number of goalies in that league are few and far between.

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12-08-2005, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
I wasn't an Osgood fan until Wing fans kept ripping on him and ripping on him. Now I want nothing more than him to play as many games for as many years as possible (win or lose) just to piss the haters off.
Wow, so you root for him out of spite for other fans?

Pretty lousy way to view hockey, dude.

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12-08-2005, 02:08 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCanCommunications
Wow, so you root for him out of spite for other fans?

Pretty lousy way to view hockey, dude.
Yep.

No lousier than your teacup of sunshine and lollypops.

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12-08-2005, 05:46 PM
  #25
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More goaltending commentary.

I understand what norrisnick clarified, and I agree with Winger98's assessment that given what it costs vs. what you can get, it is a tough equation to balance.

So why do you think Holland was in the hunt for Khabibulin to the tune of $5.5 million (maybe more with bonuses??)? In a no cap league, I think Nikolai would be a Wing right now. To me though, this shows how Holland prioritized things. Khabibulin was the only significant UFA goalie available at the time. Just because we missed out on him does not really mean Holland's priorities changed, does it?

 
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