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Old
10-14-2003, 06:44 PM
  #1
Fender
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Our D sucks

I have a feeling that this is going to be a long season ....especially if we have to witness Cory Cross on the PP and MacT has Semenov in the press box. Uggh.

I think a trade is in order! Or better yet....Sign Brian Berard!!!

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10-14-2003, 06:48 PM
  #2
momentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fender
I have a feeling that this is going to be a long season ....especially if we have to witness Cory Cross on the PP and MacT has Semenov in the press box. Uggh.

I think a trade is in order! Or better yet....Sign Brian Berard!!!
Our d looks pretty bad right now indeed. I've said it last season, before during the summer.. I've said it before during preseason and I'll say it now. Cross does not make a good combination with Brewer on the top d pairing. No matter how many minutes you want to limit him, he gets exposed when he has to be put up against good scoring lines. He is a #5-6 dman and nothing more. He has to play those limited minutes to be effective.

Berard is not the answer to our problems in our own zone. He can barely take care of his own end. Do we really need more turnovers and giveaways in our own zone at the moment?

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10-14-2003, 06:57 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
Our d looks pretty bad right now indeed. I've said it last season, before during the summer.. I've said it before during preseason and I'll say it now. Cross does not make a good combination with Brewer on the top d pairing. No matter how many minutes you want to limit him, he gets exposed when he has to be put up against good scoring lines. He is a #5-6 dman and nothing more. He has to play those limited minutes to be effective.

Berard is not the answer to our problems in our own zone. He can barely take care of his own end. Do we really need more turnovers and giveaways in our own zone at the moment?
I couldn't agree with you more momentai. Enough with the Berard stuff already,he'd be even worse then some of the guys we have right now,in his own end. The Oilers biggest problem is they don't have a true #1 d-man. If you bump all these guys down a notch,especially Cross,and add a #1 guy they'd be way better off. Get Semenov in and take out Ferguson,he serves no purpose out there. At least Bergeron creates a little offence.

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10-14-2003, 07:03 PM
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That's what I don't understand, our team has the potential to be a pretty solid defense if Berard were signed. Imagine this lineup.


Smith Staois
Semenov Berard
Brewer Bergeron

Extras Ferguson, Cross


To me that is a solid looking defense, and going by our 5 periods without a goal, we could use a little offense coming from our defense even if it comes at the expense of a couple goals.

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Old
10-14-2003, 07:46 PM
  #5
thome_26
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Well first off Ferguson/Bergeron has been our best D pairing - although I'm not sure how much of that is attributed to Fergy, but he's been a plus. It seriously makes me ache when I see Cross who is a 6-7 Dman on a decent team playing on the first pairing. Now Brewer has played pretty poorly to start, but add in that he has Cross with him and it's pretty ugly. Staios and Smith perhaps should be broken up to create some more stability. Lowe likes to talk about how fast the team is, but the blueline is pretty sluggish. Cross, Fergy, Smith, Staios are all below average skaters (Staios is perhaps average I suppose). I'm pretty scared for this team because the lack of emotion they showed tonight was rather appaulling. To say that we couldn't use a player like Berard is folly - him and Bergeron would give us two real good puck movers. This blueline would be a notable upgrade:
Brewer-Smith
Berard-Staios
Bergeron-Semenov

three good puck movers with three good Defensive Dmen (Semenov and Staios can add there fair share of offense from the back line too). Cross has anything more then a 6-7 Dman shows that our blueline is weak. Ferguson I like as a 7th Dman. I'd like to see Cross moved or dumped or something.

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10-14-2003, 08:05 PM
  #6
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The problems with our offense stems with the problems in our defense. Ever since we've traded Ninimma our offensive has been nothing more then a pop gun. We don't have that player in the back end that could pass the puck to our forwards, our offense has been tasked with carrying the puck out, thus reducing the chance of having the extra forward to recieve the breakout pass. I remember a few years ago when we had Mironov, Hamrlik, Ninimma, and Poti in our D, our weakness back then was toughness in the backend. Now that we've gotten much tougher we've also become less skilled...I just wish we could develop a balanced defense. I think Cross is alright but when you have both him and Ferguson (no offense to Fergy) but that's two of the slowest players in any given game. Semenov better be in the lineup next game and Cross/Ferguson can sit out. I'm praying our defense will turn it around but man they're making our offense look pretty bad.

GXL

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10-14-2003, 09:30 PM
  #7
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Our offence looks bad all on its own without the D's help!!!!!. Sure,the D's part of the problem but part of our D-problems are or forwards as well. This team has a lot of holes with no true scorer up front and ZERO scoring depth. Unless a bunch of 10-15 goal guys is considered depth. The only problem i have with Berard is that he's not a $2 million d-man nor is he a #1 or 2 d-man IMO. He's a good three guy who will help your PP but make us even worse in our own end. If they're not going to do something with the Comrie situation then i don't want them wasting $2 million on Berard. If other teams won't pay that for him why would the Oil?

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10-15-2003, 07:46 AM
  #8
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How much ice time did Cross get last night?..It seemed like he was on
every other shift.. Trying to tie a game you don't want to see a
lumbering Cory Cross with the puck..well unless you were a flames fan.

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10-15-2003, 07:50 AM
  #9
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our D sucks?

thanks for pointing that out. here's some other profound statements:
the sky is blue.
yellow snow doesn't taste like lemon.
delta burke likes twinkies.
it takes more than cream to make some rashes go away.
etc...

if cross continues to get the kind of icetime we've seen thus far i guarantee there will be people calling for MacT's head again in no time. i'll be leading the charge.

note to macT - CROSS IS FRIGGIN TERRIBLE.

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10-15-2003, 08:04 AM
  #10
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Is it just me, or is everyone blaming the defence when the forwards have been more at fault for what is going on?

I mean, for the most part against Vancouver, it was the forwards turning the puck over on the power play. When you spend 12 minutes on the power play in a game, and the opposition out-shoots you (in those 12 minutes), that is not a good sign.

The defence has not been bad by any stretch this year, the offense has. When you can say after 3 games that you have given up 58 shots and 6 goals, you are doing pretty good. I mean those are New Jersey Devil type numbers there.

Cory Cross looked bad on the pinch agaisnt Vancouver, but do you know what, there is absolutely no reason why Jiri Slegr should be out-hustling and out-skating Shaun Horcoff, that is unacceptable. The Oiler forwards, for the most part, are not moving thier feet. Yes there are exceptions, but they aren't anticipating well enough, nor are they reacting well enough.

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10-15-2003, 08:04 AM
  #11
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Do you think NYR wants Cross back?

How about we trade the blueshirts Comrie and Cross for Lundmark and Jessiman, then sign Berard.

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10-15-2003, 09:05 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jofa
Do you think NYR wants Cross back?

How about we trade the blueshirts Comrie and Cross for Lundmark and Jessiman, then sign Berard.
I would do that in a heartbeat. Doubt NYR would though

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10-15-2003, 09:15 AM
  #13
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Been saying all along how crappy Cross was. I can't believe that they resigned him in the offseason. And I can't believe all the band wagon jumpers that hitched a hike with Cross when he played decent in those few games with the Oilers. This is but an indication as to why the Leafs let him go, and why Tampa gave up on this chump.

Our offence is horrible because our defence can't give them any opportunity to take the puck at full stride. Now that Cross is on the top line with Brew, how bad is that? trade or bench him. Stick in Semenov and take out Fergy while you're at it.

 
Old
10-15-2003, 09:16 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai

Berard is not the answer to our problems in our own zone. He can barely take care of his own end. Do we really need more turnovers and giveaways in our own zone at the moment?

No you don't but Berard would help alleviate think the big problem for the Oil right now is a lack of good puck moving defenseman the transition system that the Oil have in place you need a good quick outlet pass to capitalize on the forwards speed. I don't know how many times the Oil did their breakout trying to spring a guy in middle to split the Flames D. It worked once but all the other times the initial pass was too slow getting out and the flames D were too far back and had time to close down the middle of the ice; or the pass didn't make it out at all and a turnover incurred.

Now is Berard the best solution to the problem, no. But is he at least a possible solution but more importantly a feasible one? Yes

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10-15-2003, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CeskyHokej
...Now is Berard the best solution to the problem, no. But is he at least a possible solution but more importantly a feasible one? Yes
why would you assume berard is "feasible"? hypothetical maybe - but not feasible.

first of all, he'd never play in edmonton.

second, any offer tendered for his services can be matched by the bruins as long as it is below his arbitration award. the bruins are just waiting for a team to make him an offer so they can re-sign him. unless the oil want to pay him what the idiot arbitrator awarded him - har har.

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10-15-2003, 09:53 AM
  #16
CeskyHokej
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
why would you assume berard is "feasible"? hypothetical maybe - but not feasible.

first of all, he'd never play in edmonton.

second, any offer tendered for his services can be matched by the bruins as long as it is below his arbitration award. the bruins are just waiting for a team to make him an offer so they can re-sign him. unless the oil want to pay him what the idiot arbitrator awarded him - har har.
Feasible from the availability point of view and matching needs. Not feasible from it's going to happen, so I guess hypothetical could be a better term. As for the Bruins matching, I was thinking more something along the lines of a sign and trade. Though his price tag is that biggest stumbling block, as it is with almost any deal.

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10-15-2003, 10:15 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jofa
Do you think NYR wants Cross back?

How about we trade the blueshirts Comrie and Cross for Lundmark and Jessiman, then sign Berard.
Why don't you add in Blackburn & Tjutin as well? The Rangers will be bad with or without Comrie. He is no answer, you should make up a proposal with Detroit instead.

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10-15-2003, 10:29 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
second, any offer tendered for his services can be matched by the bruins as long as it is below his arbitration award. the bruins are just waiting for a team to make him an offer so they can re-sign him. unless the oil want to pay him what the idiot arbitrator awarded him - har har.
Not really true... he was awarded 2.51 mil, and the bruins have the right to match any offer that is equal to or less than 80% of the arbitration award.

In other words, the Bruins can match if the offer is 2.08 mil or lower, anything higher, and they have no say in the matter.

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10-15-2003, 10:32 AM
  #19
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Although our D is not amazing, I dont think it sucks, 6 goals in 3 games is pretty good. its terrible however when you only have 5 goals in 3 games and 4 of them came in the same period. With the exception of the Torque line, none of the other 3 lines have done anything, The RPM line has been invisible. Dvorak, York, and Smyth are dealing with injuries and family problems so to say that they are playing at 100% is a grand assesement. Isbister has been able to show a bit of grit, but definatley a guy who should get top line minutes. Hemsky hasnt been able to make plays, mostly because his linemates havent been there. Chimera is fast, so what.

After all this you can point alot of fingers, but I'm pointing mine at the coaching staff, they came into the season knowing that they would have to do alot of expirementing, but you cant go expirementing against teams like Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, Ottawa etc. these teams will have 2 goals in the first 5 minutes of the game and we wont be able to claw back when we have no chemistry in our lines. im getting sick.

And what about the powerplay, what is it 0 for 15 with 4 shots total in the last 2 games? and why arent we playing our best palyers on the PP, I think there was a period in last nights game where our #1 PP unit had Pisani and Staios on it.

Laraque-Smyth-Hemsky-York-Bergeron, make it happen Simmer!

thats my rant for today, dont worry as soon as we win again i will get back on the bandwagon, just needed to through my two cents in.

by the way, KLO, who's got the leverage now, I think it's Mike Comrie.

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10-15-2003, 10:37 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers4life
Been saying all along how crappy Cross was. I can't believe that they resigned him in the offseason. And I can't believe all the band wagon jumpers that hitched a hike with Cross when he played decent in those few games with the Oilers. This is but an indication as to why the Leafs let him go, and why Tampa gave up on this chump.

Our offence is horrible because our defence can't give them any opportunity to take the puck at full stride. Now that Cross is on the top line with Brew, how bad is that? trade or bench him. Stick in Semenov and take out Fergy while you're at it.
Yes, the offense can't score because the defense can't pass the puck... nice. Are you going to ignore the fact that the problem isn't getting out of the Oilers end, but getting into the offensive end. Consistantly, the Oilers are losing races, and battles for the puck on dump ins, and they only really have 1 player capable of carrying the puck in with any kind of success (Hemsky).

The offense can't score, because they haven't shown the ability to gain the zone on a regular basis. The problem is, the Torque line has been able to do it, meaning they are doing something right. The Oilers are screwed if the only way they can score is on the fly... why? Because teams like Dallas, Minnesota, etc take away all that offensive speed by trapping, clogging up the middle, and forcing short plays and dump ins. This is 1986 anymore, the game isn't all about flying up and down the wings. Against San Jose, the Oilers were consistantly gaining the zone, both by carrying the puck, and dumping and chasing... and that hasn't happened much in the past 2 games.

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10-15-2003, 10:40 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
And what about the powerplay, what is it 0 for 15 with 4 shots total in the last 2 games?
In all fairness though, 4 of those power plays were less than 30 seconds long, but 0 for 11 with 4 shots isn't anything to brag to your girlfriend about though.

I counted 7 times against Vancouver that an Oiler forward turned the puck over while trying to skate into the zone... that practically kills 3 full power plays as it is.

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10-15-2003, 11:01 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
Not really true... he was awarded 2.51 mil, and the bruins have the right to match any offer that is equal to or less than 80% of the arbitration award.

In other words, the Bruins can match if the offer is 2.08 mil or lower, anything higher, and they have no say in the matter.
are you 100% sure about this? i may have misinterpreted the article i read regarding berard but i was positive that it suggested anything up to the arbitrator award was fair game for the bruins. of course, i suppose it's possible the author of the article was a filthy liar. i wish i could remember where i found that article. i could have sworn is was on NHL.com but i can't find it now.

ah well, now i have something to do in an attempt to kill the rest of this work day...

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10-15-2003, 11:15 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
are you 100% sure about this? i may have misinterpreted the article i read regarding berard but i was positive that it suggested anything up to the arbitrator award was fair game for the bruins. of course, i suppose it's possible the author of the article was a filthy liar. i wish i could remember where i found that article. i could have sworn is was on NHL.com but i can't find it now.

ah well, now i have something to do in an attempt to kill the rest of this work day...
This is from an article on NHL.com...

Quote:
O'Connell also announced that the team has exercised its "walk-away" option on the $2.51 million arbitration award to defenseman Bryan Berard. Arbitrator Elizabeth Neumeier made the award during Berard's hearing on August 8th after Berard agreed to accept a decision on the figure the Bruins put forth in their argument. Under terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, Berard becomes a free agent with the Bruins exercising their 'walk-away' option. If he is offered a contract by another team for less than 80% of the arbitration award, the Bruins have the right to match that offer and retain Berard's services. If the offer is above the 80% figure, Berard is an unrestricted free agent with no compensation due the Bruins by the signing team.


Link to article

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Old
10-15-2003, 11:15 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
are you 100% sure about this? i may have misinterpreted the article i read regarding berard but i was positive that it suggested anything up to the arbitrator award was fair game for the bruins. of course, i suppose it's possible the author of the article was a filthy liar. i wish i could remember where i found that article. i could have sworn is was on NHL.com but i can't find it now.

ah well, now i have something to do in an attempt to kill the rest of this work day...
Let's put it this way... I don't know the CBA to perfection, but I have heard this being talked about both on this board, the radio, T.V., etc...

The Bruins can match anything that is 80% or lower, which essentially works out to 2.08 mil.

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10-15-2003, 11:23 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by MrMackey
This is from an article on NHL.com...
Link to article
thanks... i had just stumbled on that myself. i must have had a brainfart when i was reading the other article. at any rate, 2.08 million is still way too much for berard - although much more attractive than the full arbitration award.

worst of all, i still have 2 1/2 hours to kill. that answer came way too quickly.

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