HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

After three games.....

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-14-2003, 07:41 PM
  #1
Belcriss
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
After three games.....

Definitely can't score. Need face off artist. PP still sucks!! Still think this team is a playoff team without Comrie? One or two of his 30 goals would sure have helped tonight. Lets face it, we could have survived no Comrie if Marchant was still here, but he isn't. We need to get Comrie back, and for the whole team to find their legs in the first period, not just the third. We could have won that game against Calgary if they would have worked for 60 mins instead of 20. I know lots of you guys will disagree that we need Comrie back, but its as simple as this. Trade him for something good, or sign him and get him back in here to do what he does best. CREATE OFFENCE!!!!!!!!!

 
Old
10-14-2003, 07:46 PM
  #2
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belcriss
Definitely can't score. Need face off artist. PP still sucks!! Still think this team is a playoff team without Comrie? One or two of his 30 goals would sure have helped tonight. Lets face it, we could have survived no Comrie if Marchant was still here, but he isn't. We need to get Comrie back, and for the whole team to find their legs in the first period, not just the third. We could have won that game against Calgary if they would have worked for 60 mins instead of 20. I know lots of you guys will disagree that we need Comrie back, but its as simple as this. Trade him for something good, or sign him and get him back in here to do what he does best. CREATE OFFENCE!!!!!!!!!
Wonder where all the "LOOK AT OUR AMAZING SCORING DEPTH!!" posters went.

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 07:52 PM
  #3
thome_26
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,860
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to thome_26
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Wonder where all the "LOOK AT OUR AMAZING SCORING DEPTH!!" posters went.
The depth is still there. The effort certainly isn't. To say that they played for 20 minutes is giving them to much credit. 15 minutes maybe, but I'd be more inclined to say 10 minutes of the third period. They completely dominated an inferior team when they skated - but two nights in a row now they have floated in the first two periods and taken penalties because of it. They lose battles every time there is one to be won. Pisani doesn't belong on the third line. Reasoner and Moreau were excellent on the PK and played well again - Isbister is skating and hitting and creating chances and I think eventually goals are gonna start coming for him because he's skating and hitting and creating offense. Dvo looks like his concentration isn't quite there (and I don't hold that against him for a mili second). Indeed we need some help - this team looks dead three games into the season. Smyth has been completely un-noticable the last two games - dido with Hemsky and York and Chimera. I'd like to see a two or three player deal made in the next couple weeks if this team isn't playing atleast .500 hockey.

thome_26 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:13 PM
  #4
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
If we really had the depth that alot of people claim, we could half-dog it out there and score AT LEAST 2 on a pathetic Calgary squad. Simply, we don't have it. Alot of people are for some reason criticizing the DEFENCE after these 2 games. What do you want? 1-0 wins? Are you INSANE? You don't win that way. We've allowed 4 goals in the last 2 games. That is just fine. SCORE SOME GOALS.

sign...

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:17 PM
  #5
hockeyaddict101
Registered User
 
hockeyaddict101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
If we really had the depth that alot of people claim, we could half-dog it out there and score AT LEAST 2 on a pathetic Calgary squad. Simply, we don't have it. Alot of people are for some reason criticizing the DEFENCE after these 2 games. What do you want? 1-0 wins? Are you INSANE? You don't win that way. We've allowed 4 goals in the last 2 games. That is just fine. SCORE SOME GOALS.

sign...
Be careful, in my post I said they played well defensively, but your offense starts with good outlet passes from your defense which was not there.

That is one of the most flagrant problems with the offense IMO.

hockeyaddict101 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:21 PM
  #6
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Be careful, in my post I said they played well defensively, but your offense starts with good outlet passes from your defense which was not there.

That is one of the most flagrant problems with the offense IMO.
We're not generating speed and chances at and past the opposing blueline imo, which has alot more to do with our forwards. We're actually breaking out okay right now, it's kind of surprising. I think we can thank MAB for alot of that. And then, when we do have the chances, we've got Isbister, Horcoff, and Torres trying to bury them, and Smyth whiffing like Mark Whitten out there. It's terrible in the offensive zone right now. On that note, someone needs to tell Izzy where to go in the offensive zone on a scoring line, because he has NO CLUE.

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:26 PM
  #7
hockeyaddict101
Registered User
 
hockeyaddict101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,903
vCash: 500
have to disagree

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
We're not generating speed and chances at and past the opposing blueline imo, which has alot more to do with our forwards. We're actually breaking out okay right now, it's kind of surprising. I think we can thank MAB for alot of that. And then, when we do have the chances, we've got Isbister, Horcoff, and Torres trying to bury them, and Smyth whiffing like Mark Whitten out there. It's terrible in the offensive zone right now. On that note, someone needs to tell Izzy where to go in the offensive zone on a scoring line, because he has NO CLUE.
We are not breaking out of our zone well at all. I think I can count on my fingers the amount of passes that actually hit an Oiler forward.

Many of the passes were behind the forward or missed the mark completely.

It was brutal and there is no hiding that. The Oilers actually did a good job cycling but I would agree that passes were not crisp in that zone either.

hockeyaddict101 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:30 PM
  #8
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
We are not breaking out of our zone well at all. I think I can count on my fingers the amount of passes that actually hit an Oiler forward.

Many of the passes were behind the forward or missed the mark completely.

It was brutal and there is no hiding that. The Oilers actually did a good job cycling but I would agree that passes were not crisp in that zone either.
And cycling doesn't score goals.

Bad teams use "we cycled the puck well" as an excuse after low-output games.

This team is built on speed, that means goals on the rush, ie. against SJ. That's how we win games. Goals off the rush, and forechecking like mad. Haven't seen any of that.

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:34 PM
  #9
hockeyaddict101
Registered User
 
hockeyaddict101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,903
vCash: 500
Yes and no

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
And cycling doesn't score goals.

Bad teams use "we cycled the puck well" as an excuse after low-output games.

This team is built on speed, that means goals on the rush, ie. against SJ. That's how we win games. Goals off the rush, and forechecking like mad. Haven't seen any of that.
Cycling is an important part of any successful team and teams that do it well like Dallas and New Jersey win a lot of games. In fact cycling the puck well was why the Oilers won their first game. How many goals do Laraque, Torres and Horcoff score on the rush!!

If you think a lot of goals are scored on the rush you haven't been watching a lot of NHL games lately.

But agree that the Oilers have not played a solid sixty minutes yet this season and that includes the first game.

hockeyaddict101 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:39 PM
  #10
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Cycling is an important part of any successful team and teams that do it well like Dallas and New Jersey win a lot of games. In fact cycling the puck well was why the Oilers won their first game. How many goals do Laraque, Torres and Horcoff score on the rush!!

If you think a lot of goals are scored on the rush you haven't been watching a lot of NHL games lately.

But agree that the Oilers have not played a solid sixty minutes yet this season and that includes the first game.
I believe we're confusing forechecking and cycling.

Cycling is where you control the puck on the boards for an extended period of time, with the eventual goal of hopefully catching the defence off guard and getting a chance.

What good offensive teams do is forecheck hard, then use their talent to score. There may be one or 2 cycle-type passes, but then there is immediately a play to create a scoring chance. This is the main difference from what the Oilers have been doing, to what good teams do. The famous backdoor play is a perfect example. Cycling does not involve a forward or defenceman getting into a prime scoring area and looking for the play, forechecking hard and then setting up does. That's what we need to do.

As for goals on the rush, how many did we score against SJ? Speed (combined with talent and scoring patience) kills.

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:44 PM
  #11
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Cycling does not involve a forward or defenceman getting into a prime scoring area and looking for the play, forechecking hard and then setting up does.
That's exactly what cycling is.. you dump the puck in, forecheck hard and control the puck while a forward/d-man looks for the open ice for the pass! Forechecking alone isn't a strategy.. you pretty much can't forcheck without cycling unless one of your guys magically escapes the opposing d-men. Almost any winning team implements this strategy.. teams like New Jersey and Dallas have won cups partially because of it!

Cerebral is online now  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:45 PM
  #12
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Cycling does not involve a forward or defenceman getting into a prime scoring area and looking for the play, forechecking hard and then setting up does.
That's exactly what cycling is.. you dump the puck in, forcheck hard and control the puck while a forward/d-man looks for the open ice for the pass! Forechecking alone isn't a strategy.. you pretty much can't forecheck without cycling. Almost any winning team implements this strategy.. teams like New Jersey and Dallas have won cups partially because of it!

Cerebral is online now  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:46 PM
  #13
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
That's exactly what cycling is.. you dump the puck in, forcheck hard and control the puck while a forward/d-man looks for the open ice for the pass! Forchecking alone isn't a strategy.. you pretty much can't forcheck without cycling. Almost any winning team implements this strategy.. teams like New Jersey and Dallas have won cups partially because of it!
Not the Edmonton Oilers brand however. 1 or 2 passes for the good teams, then to the sniper who buries it. As opposed to our 10 passes and then whack it at the net.

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:46 PM
  #14
TheBrew
Registered User
 
TheBrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,891
vCash: 540
Next game we got TO KEEP IT SIMPLE and put some pucks on net i dont want to rush a Comrie trade but i think Tyler Arnason would look good in a Oiler Uni some time soon

TheBrew is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:50 PM
  #15
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Not the Edmonton Oilers brand however. 1 or 2 passes for the good teams, then to the sniper who buries it. As opposed to our 10 passes and then whack it at the net.
I've seen Forsberg grind it out for whole shifts without ever getting a clear shot on net.. same thing with guys like Thornton, Shanahan and Iginla. It all depends on your teammates ability to find the open spots and get quick shots off.. obviously, guys like Isbister and Smyth aren't getting to the right places on the ice and certainly aren't getting their shots off fast enough :mad: I'd argue that the cycling done between Laraque-Horcoff-Torres is usually very effective however.. while they may not get as prime scoring chances as a sniping team like the Avalanche do, they wear down the opposing defenders thus (in theory) helping the other lines.. also, if they play like in the first game, they tire down the opponent enough and then capitalize on a lazy mistake.

Cerebral is online now  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:55 PM
  #16
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
I've seen Forsberg grind it out for whole shifts without ever getting a clear shot on net.. same thing with guys like Thornton, Shanahan and Iginla. It all depends on your teammates ability to find the open spots and get quick shots off.. obviously, guys like Isbister and Smyth aren't getting to the right places on the ice and certainly aren't getting their shots off fast enough :mad: I'd argue that the cycling done between Laraque-Horcoff-Torres is usually very effective however.. while they may not get as prime scoring chances as a sniping team like the Avalanche do, they wear down the opposing defenders thus (in theory) helping the other lines.. also, if they play like in the first game, they tire down the opponent enough and then capitalize on a lazy mistake.
And for that line, that's okay. But for our top 2 lines, not okay at all. Izzy needs a severe lecture in not only how to bury a chance, but where to stand so that Hemsky can simply put it on his stick (because he will). Smytty just looks off right now, I really don't think he can be the offensive feature of a scoring line. York isn't carrying the puck with any authority, or taking good shots. Not many good shots at all. Useless flicks at the net that I could stop. My patience with Izzy is wearing thin, why can't we have a Freddy Modin to play with Hemsky instead. Dvorak and Chimera i thought were okay tonight, although Chimera did blow a beauty setup, which always gets my ire.

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 08:56 PM
  #17
hockeyaddict101
Registered User
 
hockeyaddict101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
I believe we're confusing forechecking and cycling.

Cycling is where you control the puck on the boards for an extended period of time, with the eventual goal of hopefully catching the defence off guard and getting a chance.

What good offensive teams do is forecheck hard, then use their talent to score. There may be one or 2 cycle-type passes, but then there is immediately a play to create a scoring chance. This is the main difference from what the Oilers have been doing, to what good teams do. The famous backdoor play is a perfect example. Cycling does not involve a forward or defenceman getting into a prime scoring area and looking for the play, forechecking hard and then setting up does. That's what we need to do.

As for goals on the rush, how many did we score against SJ? Speed (combined with talent and scoring patience) kills.

Nope I know what cycling is, and it is very important because it keeps control in the other teams end.

Yes the object of the cycle is to keep control until you can spring a man open. Something that George Laraque usually has trouble with. Though he has been much better in the first few games of creating chances off the cycle and causing turnovers on the forecheck.

And watch Dallas's game tomorrow and you will see extended cycling until they do create an odd man situation.

If after watching and playing the game since 1971, if I don't know what cycling is I might as well give up now

hockeyaddict101 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 09:01 PM
  #18
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
Nope I know what cycling is, and it is very important because it keeps control in the other teams end.

Yes the object of the cycle is to keep control until you can spring a man open. Something that George Laraque usually has trouble with. Though he has been much better in the first few games of creating chances off the cycle and causing turnovers on the forecheck.

And watch Dallas's game tomorrow and you will see extended cycling until they do create an odd man situation.

If after watching and playing the game since 1971, if I don't know what cycling is I might as well give up now
I'm not sayin you don't know, I'm sayin that you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Because what they do imo, is not what the Oilers are currently attempting to do.

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
10-14-2003, 09:04 PM
  #19
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Izzy needs a severe lecture in not only how to bury a chance, but where to stand so that Hemsky can simply put it on his stick (because he will). Smytty just looks off right now, I really don't think he can be the offensive feature of a scoring line.
I agree! I think one of the problems is that we're trying to make Smyth into something that he's not.. why doesn't he ever stand in front of the net anymore?? All broadcasters used to talk about was how much time he put into tipping drills in practice and how good he was with his stick out front of the net.. we have guys like York/Hemsky to control the halfboards.. why are we trying to make Smyth into Doug Weight when he already was very effective at what he did? I thought Isbister looked pretty good tonight.. I made a prediction in the first period that he was gonna pot one by the end of the game and sadly enough, he let me down I hate to cave in but we need Comrie or another natural centerman on our top line.. I was all for Smyth at center in the pre-season but he's just not playing the bluecollar style of game that has made him famous in the City of Champions!

Cerebral is online now  
Old
10-15-2003, 06:21 AM
  #20
hockeyaddict101
Registered User
 
hockeyaddict101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
I'm not sayin you don't know, I'm sayin that you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Because what they do imo, is not what the Oilers are currently attempting to do.
Yes it is. Listen to Moores interview on 630 ched for confirmation of exactly what I am saying.

He thought that the Oilers were not able to create sustained effort in the Calgary zone.

Which is exactly what I am saying. IMO there were three reasons for this.

1. The Oilers defence had trouble getting it to the forwards.

2. They were constantly losing the battles to the puck in Calgary zone.

3. When they did win the battles they weren't able to sustain any pressure.

Thus the result, 19 shots and shutout.

hockeyaddict101 is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 06:56 AM
  #21
thome_26
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,860
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to thome_26
First off anybody who says that good teams don't cycle are talking out of their as$. The Stars, Avs, Canucks, Devils, Senators all play cycling games (they just have more skill to finish in most cases). The Oilers, haven't put the puck pressure on the opposing team nearly enough. MacT, the blundering fool, has them playing an in between style. He wants to trap, Lowe wants to forcheck, so it's like he's meeting in the middle. The Oilers are the best when a speedy forward is right in the Dmans face in their own end forcing turnovers. Salmo was the best of all the Oilers in camp at this and I think taking out Pisnani who has brought NOTHING to the team so far and putting in Salmo would make a big difference. But the most important thing is we need to be ALOT more agressive and need to start skating and making good passes (this team has passed behing their target SO many times in the last 2 games it hurts).

thome_26 is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 12:50 PM
  #22
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Registered User
 
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
We're not going to agree on what specifically a cycle is, or what forechecking or offensive puck control is, I can see that, BUT, I believe we can agree that the Oilers are not playing near well enough in the offensive zone, are not using an effective system, and are not winning near-enough races to the puck.

Right?

LoudmouthHemskyfan#1 is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 01:11 PM
  #23
thome_26
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,860
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to thome_26
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
We're not going to agree on what specifically a cycle is, or what forechecking or offensive puck control is, I can see that, BUT, I believe we can agree that the Oilers are not playing near well enough in the offensive zone, are not using an effective system, and are not winning near-enough races to the puck.

Right?
150% right my friend

thome_26 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:45 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.