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Holik Keeping Criticism to Himself

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Old
10-15-2003, 04:09 AM
  #1
KING
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Holik Keeping Criticism to Himself

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/15/sp...ey/15RANG.html

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10-15-2003, 04:44 AM
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Holik has done nothing but make make headlines for everything but his F'in play which we pay him 9 F'in million dollars for, double what anybody else that plays his game makes so he just needs to shut the F up and look in the mirror because he has brought NOTHING to this team in his time here thus far!!!

Where's all the toughness and rough play?Where is the intimidation factor?Where is his stellar defensive play?Where is him bulling to the net and him being a menace in all 3 zones??Where is his decent offense he creates with his heavy slapshots and his brawn infront of the net???

Holik has been a major disappointment for me and he's done nothing but critisize others while he isn't coming close to justifying his 9 million dollar contract.

Shut your F'in hole Bobby and get back to playing the game that pays you like no other comprable player makes.Worry about getting your "A" game back before you start you "honest critism" BS.Start living up to what is expected of YOU before taking others to to task.

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10-15-2003, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Where's all the toughness and rough play?Where is the intimidation factor?Where is his stellar defensive play?Where is him bulling to the net and him being a menace in all 3 zones??Where is his decent offense he creates with his heavy slapshots and his brawn infront of the net???
I'm not going to say I'm pleased with Holik's play, but I think a lot of people here expected WAY more out of Holik than he could ever hope to give. Come on folks! We've seen enough Devils games over the past 10 years to know that Bobby is not Peter Forsberg. He's an average player at best who's dominant abilities were magnified by a brilliant system while his shortcomings were masked by the same. He's not a strong defensive player. He's not gifted with offensive ability. He's not a consistent force game in-game out. He's a freakin' 3rd line checking center!

The real nad-kicker in this story for me was the fact that Sather has now imposed a gag order on the players.

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Starting with a season-ending meeting with Holik in April, Sather began pressuring him not to say anything negative about the team
Personally, I think Sather's just worried about his incompetetance being exposed publically. Bobby knows what it takes to be a winner in today's NHL, and perhaps part of it is to challenge the organization publically. Whether Holik's the man to be doing it is debateable, but at least SOMEONE in the organization was lighting a fire under some *****. Who's doing it now?

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10-15-2003, 05:43 AM
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I'm shocked Sather told the media he is a divisive influence in the dressing room, that will not help and does not solve anything.

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10-15-2003, 08:46 AM
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The last thing Sather wants is anyone criticizing his team.

He must figure if he doesn't do it, no one else should either. I mean, it's not like you HAVE to be playing well in order to be a voice no any team.

The fact that sather has asked him not to speak his mind is pathetic.

If the "captain" isn't saying it and the "coach" isn't saying it and the 'g.m" isn't saying it, I guess no one should step up and say what everyone else knows?

This team and the people who run it are morons.

God I wish Keenan were here. Public flogging would be the order of the day and with this group, it seems like public embarassment may be the only solution because God knows nothing else has seemed to work.

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10-15-2003, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Holik has done nothing but make make headlines for everything but his F'in play which we pay him 9 F'in million dollars for, double what anybody else that plays his game makes so he just needs to shut the F up and look in the mirror because he has brought NOTHING to this team in his time here thus far!!!

Where's all the toughness and rough play?Where is the intimidation factor?Where is his stellar defensive play?Where is him bulling to the net and him being a menace in all 3 zones??Where is his decent offense he creates with his heavy slapshots and his brawn infront of the net???

Holik has been a major disappointment for me and he's done nothing but critisize others while he isn't coming close to justifying his 9 million dollar contract.

Shut your F'in hole Bobby and get back to playing the game that pays you like no other comprable player makes.Worry about getting your "A" game back before you start you "honest critism" BS.Start living up to what is expected of YOU before taking others to to task.

lack of chemistry is the real problem. Players can't play to their potential unless they know each other's style. Constant bringing in new players won't help the chemistry in dress room.

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10-15-2003, 10:14 AM
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I think Melrose hit the nail on the head: Holik is not capable of justifying his contract. I happen to think he is a very solid player, and he fit like a glove in NJ, but is not worthy of $9M per season. If he was making $4M per year, the expectations and criticism would be lowered.

***

Why would anyone fault Sather for ordering his team to keep the negative stuff inside the lockeroom? That's management 101.

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10-15-2003, 10:32 AM
  #8
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Nobody especially me expect any Petr Forsberg type performances out of him.I'm fully aware of what he is but he isn't even bring what has made him the player he is.


Where is the physical play???Where is him trucking somebody?Where is the chippyness?Where is the edge he needs to play with that makes him effective???

And while he isn't an offensive player he has a very heavy slapper that leaves juicy rebounds and he has always been a menace crashing the net to bang in goals and rebounds.That hasn't come close to happening here.

And while I'm not overly concerned with him living up to his salary I do get extremely pissed when he is constantly the one taking thinly vieled shots at everything and everybody EXCEPT himself day after day!!!

When asked about his own sh1tty play in the weekend games where he went 0 for 6 in his own zone at a crucial stretch the reposrter asked him if he felt his play were up to par and he said"not exactly" or some other lame cop out of a reply.If your going to be such a loud mouth make sure you are at a very minimum meeting your expectaions if not surpassing them.Bobby hasn't come close and he still refuses to look in the mirror first before taking everybody else to task.

He's hardly noticable on the ice---bottom line.

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10-15-2003, 11:01 AM
  #9
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I agree with JR. Giving Holik $9 mil does not make him a #1 center, and no one in their right mind expects that from Holik. The problem is that since he's been here, he's not even been an adequate #3 center. If Holik was chipping in 20-25 goals and 40-60 points while playing physical and contributing in both ends, there would be no problem. If he was giving an all-out effort but the offense just wasn't coming, then he would still have a point. But he's not doing any of the things that made him a successful NHLer. He's become a more expensive Mike Keane. If Holik wants to say something, he faces the same problem as Messier: why should anyone listen to him when he's not getting the job done on the ice?

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10-15-2003, 11:01 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Nobody especially me expect any Petr Forsberg type performances out of him.I'm fully aware of what he is but he isn't even bring what has made him the player he is.


Where is the physical play???Where is him trucking somebody?Where is the chippyness?Where is the edge he needs to play with that makes him effective???

And while he isn't an offensive player he has a very heavy slapper that leaves juicy rebounds and he has always been a menace crashing the net to bang in goals and rebounds.That hasn't come close to happening here.

And while I'm not overly concerned with him living up to his salary I do get extremely pissed when he is constantly the one taking thinly vieled shots at everything and everybody EXCEPT himself day after day!!!

When asked about his own sh1tty play in the weekend games where he went 0 for 6 in his own zone at a crucial stretch the reposrter asked him if he felt his play were up to par and he said"not exactly" or some other lame cop out of a reply.If your going to be such a loud mouth make sure you are at a very minimum meeting your expectaions if not surpassing them.Bobby hasn't come close and he still refuses to look in the mirror first before taking everybody else to task.

He's hardly noticable on the ice---bottom line.

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10-15-2003, 11:32 AM
  #11
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I agree JR, you make some really solid points but.... Holik was used to a system in New jersey and it is his own fault he took the money and ran. Holik was nothing in Hartford and he did very little in new Jersey until Ftorek said he thought Holik could do more and he was going to get more responsibility. He had a coach who believed in him and a system to make him stand out as a key cog. he is feeling the pressure of 9 million per year and he resents the fact their is no structure. He called out Trottier last year and it is no secret sather has no coaching system or no front office plan either. sather does not want the incompetence of the whole operation exposed but it is far far too late. The only thing that can possibly save this debacle is a top technical coach. Even then it would be a reach to try and make something out of this group. Lindros may be the most useless forward within a system. Nedved, Rucinsky, Kovalev, Hlavac and Holik have all seen defense first systems before Kovalev at the international level. The defense is exposed with no system to speak of and they are nothing special to begin with. This team is in as much trouble as any because they have the wrong players and the wrong coach. There is soo much money tied up in it there is little room to move. sather need to get a top tactician as soon as one becomes available. Good luck with that.

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10-15-2003, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
he's not even been an adequate #3 center. If Holik was chipping in 20-25 goals and 40-60 points while playing physical and contributing in both ends, there would be no problem.
The guy put up 35 points in 64 games last year. Basically, he's operating at a pace that you say would appease you, yet it doesn't. Certainly not his best effort, certainly not his best year, but in the context of our #1 center who potted only 18 more points in 17 more games, it truly boggles the mind that anyone sits here pissing and moaning about Holik is somehow one of this team's problems.

As for his critique's, I've never once heard Holik say "player X is really effing things up for us". Usually, it's more along the lines of "this TEAM is really effing things up". Last time I checked, Holik was part of this team and therefore, is including himself in the critique. The only finger pointing he's done is at the people calling the shots, Sather and Trottier, and damn if it wasn't all well deserved.

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10-15-2003, 01:03 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
The guy put up 35 points in 64 games last year. Basically, he's operating at a pace that you say would appease you, yet it doesn't. Certainly not his best effort, certainly not his best year, but in the context of our #1 center who potted only 18 more points in 17 more games, it truly boggles the mind that anyone sits here pissing and moaning about Holik is somehow one of this team's problems.

As for his critique's, I've never once heard Holik say "player X is really effing things up for us". Usually, it's more along the lines of "this TEAM is really effing things up". Last time I checked, Holik was part of this team and therefore, is including himself in the critique. The only finger pointing he's done is at the people calling the shots, Sather and Trottier, and damn if it wasn't all well deserved.
Totally agree with Melrose on this one....

JR i have a question for you... who was justified their contract and actually played like they were suppose to play since we've brought them in?
Lindros? - NO
Kamensky? - NO
Ulanov, karpa?- NO
Kovalev (granted he hasn't been here long) -NO
Carter(see kovalev) - NO
Malakhov?- NO
Kasparitis? - NO

Has there been a player that came here that did the job as well as they did with their previous team?

Honestly I can't think of a one. You all can rip bobby all you want, I still think you all expected WAY to much from him. Add on to the fact he's not even being used properly... he played first line center last year for a while didn't he? He's killing penalties (something he NEVER did in Jersey) and he's playing with a group of has beens and don't want to be's.
This team is absolutly pathetic in every way. Now Sather says players can't say anything? What's he going to do? Give them more ice time, or just put them on the powerplay?
Glen sure has his priorities straight doesn't he? Concentrating more on what players say to the media than he does actually trying to get them to PLAY a game.

Why do we even bother to support a team that has shown nothing to the fans? I don't even care about no playoffs that's beyond the point.....I'm talking about effort, energy, heart it seems these things dont' exist once you call MSG "Home Ice" they get replaced by lazy,money hungry, and lack of(fill in the blank whether it be heart, skill, drive ect ect).

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10-15-2003, 02:53 PM
  #14
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Wait one second here. We're not ripping Holik for not producing. We're ripping him for not producing and then opening his big yap about what's wrong with everyone else. Until Holik begins to remotely resemble the player he was in NJ, he should keep his piehole shut and stop pointing fingers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
The guy put up 35 points in 64 games last year. Basically, he's operating at a pace that you say would appease you, yet it doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
he's not even been an adequate #3 center. If Holik was chipping in 20-25 goals and 40-60 points <b>while playing physical and contributing in both ends</b>, there would be no problem.
Look at Lindros' first year here: 73 pts in 72 games. Was he the #1 center he was supposed to be? Not even close. There's more to contributing than putting numbers on the scoresheet, especially for a player like Holik who's offensive contributions are supposed to be secondary to his defensive and physical ones.

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10-15-2003, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidClown
You all can rip bobby all you want, I still think you all expected WAY to much from him.
What did we expect that was too much? That he be the same player he was before we gave him his big payday? That he still play physical hockey and be good defensively? Has there ever been a time when Holik looked intimidating in a Rangers jersey? Really, all Holik has done here is run his mouth.

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10-15-2003, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
What did we expect that was too much? That he be the same player he was before we gave him his big payday? That he still play physical hockey and be good defensively? Has there ever been a time when Holik looked intimidating in a Rangers jersey? Really, all Holik has done here is run his mouth.

What you have hear is a case of seeing things out of context....

Bobby in NJ was a decent player surrounded by a group off good solid dedicated hockey players. Everyone did their part and they functioned well as a team. Now in NY he's a decent player surrounded by the island of misfit hockey players and their kookie management. All of the sudden everyone starts looking worthless. Works just like mach bands

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10-15-2003, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidClown
What you have hear is a case of seeing things out of context....

Bobby in NJ was a decent player surrounded by a group off good solid dedicated hockey players. Everyone did their part and they functioned well as a team. Now in NY he's a decent player surrounded by the island of misfit hockey players and their kookie management. All of the sudden everyone starts looking worthless. Works just like mach bands
That could work if Holik's numbers took a dive, or if he just stopped being a top-flight shutdown center (we won't know until he's actually used in that role), but there is NO EXCUSE for Holik to stop giving it his total effort and stop using his body like he has since he came to NY. I don't care is the system sucks (which it does) or if everyone around him doesn't care (which they don't), he should still be giving his total effort and using his body to cause havoc in the slot and make life miserable for the other team. That's not something that any system or any teammates can have an effect on. It's pure Bobby. And until he straightens that out, he's living in a glass house, so he should not say a damn thing about what anyone else is doing.

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10-15-2003, 06:26 PM
  #18
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Not for nothing but, as an Islanders fan, I am shocked that you just said what you said considering what an advanced stage of foot-in-mouth disease Mike Millbury has.

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Originally Posted by NYIsles1
I'm shocked Sather told the media he is a divisive influence in the dressing room, that will not help and does not solve anything.

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10-16-2003, 04:12 AM
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I love Holik, i miss him with NJ but he was only a piece to the puzzle. Under this system, anyone can look good. Just ask Paschal Reaume(sp?)Before Holik was in NJ, he was sorta doing nothing special in Hartford. When he has a defined ROLE, is when he excels.

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10-16-2003, 10:51 AM
  #20
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I've been reading the forum for a while and this is my first post, but I couldn't resist.

I think that one of the main reasons why we went way out on a limb to get Bobby Holik was to address the issue of character. When it came to lack of character, the Rangers were the talk of the town around the NHL before the Holik acquisition. In the eyes of the Rangers brass, Holik addressed that issue along with several others we were shy on. A player like Holik was a rarity for us. He was someone who was in the oppositions face all night, someone who played with bite, played excellent 2 way hockey, was dirty but usually smart enough to get away with it, could chip in some big points, and most importantly he was huge and strong. He addressed so many issues that few other players in the league did, and he was so big to boot. There weren't any other players available with all his attributes and I think that's what drove the price up on him to ungodly proportions. What pisses me off about Holik is that he hasn't addressed not just one, but almost all of the issues why we brought him here, especially the one of character.

It's hard for me to put up with his mouthy ways to the press because he hasn't produced for us as advertised. Right now he's just another on the long list of lackeys to come here once they get the money and take life a little easier. Until he proves something big as a Ranger, I still see this guy with a big devil on his chest.

 
Old
10-16-2003, 12:34 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machoking2003-04
I love Holik, i miss him with NJ but he was only a piece to the puzzle. Under this system, anyone can look good. Just ask Paschal Reaume(sp?)Before Holik was in NJ, he was sorta doing nothing special in Hartford. When he has a defined ROLE, is when he excels.

Thank you that's what i was trying to say in my last post, with the mach band comments. Perfectly put.

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