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from the Daily News, should we be concerned?

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Old
12-10-2005, 10:03 AM
  #1
pld459666
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from the Daily News, should we be concerned?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/st...p-317585c.html

Seems like a small disagreement, but don't they all start small?

Thoughts?

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Old
12-10-2005, 10:15 AM
  #2
abev
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In search of a Saturday story...

"Jaromir Jagr believes that anybody who thinks that way ought to have his head examined."

Thinks what way? No quotes from Renney appear before this quote from Jagr. Dont tell me the Jagr quotes are in response to the Renney quotes at the *end* of the article. Dellapina is just looking for something to write.

Jagr: "You've got to play what they give you. If they give you the shot, shoot. " How much more black and white do you need it?

Stop the insanity. The Rangers are winning. Accept it. The team is for real.

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12-10-2005, 10:34 AM
  #3
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It reads like this, abev...

Coach Tom Renney and assistant Mike Pelino believe that more point shots will start the healing process for a power play that is 16 for 123 (13.0%) over the last 22 games.


Jaromir Jagr believes that anybody who thinks that way ought to have his head examined.


"No, I don't believe that; I don't believe that," Jagr said. "If you want to do it, it's just not going to help anything. You might get lucky once in a while, but that's it

Jagr's responding to the thought up above. And a coach always needs to find way to improve his team; there aren't going to be many 2 goal nights from Prucha and Rucchin. Getting the PP going is a good thing. There's still 50+ games left; there can be lulls in even strength; goaltending can become ordinary on occasion and the PK can tire. Renney's right and unfortunately Jagr should only be playing 1/2 the PP, with another unit playing the second, which could make for an unhappy Jags.

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12-10-2005, 04:31 PM
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And another thing to remember is that power play goals in the playoffs win games. The Rangers can't expect to enter the playoffs without an effective power play and go very far at all.

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12-10-2005, 04:38 PM
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i agree with renney for the most part(especially the part about us trying to paint a masterpiece. a goal bounced in off of the opponants *** counts exactly the same as a 14 deke top shelf highlight reel goal). i doubt this is like some huge venemous argument behind the scenes. it's just a paper looking for an angle.

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12-10-2005, 05:29 PM
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I mean, what else do you expect a member of the Czech posse to say? They don't wanna shoot, they want to design pretty plays. Man-o-man, where the heck is Petr Sykora to bail us out?

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12-10-2005, 05:30 PM
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Looking at the forward firepower that NYR throws out on the 1st powerplay unit, it is hard imagine that it will struggle indefinitely. To be sure, NYR could use an elite QB at the point, IMO, but once the puck gets down low, that is a scary unit to defend against.

Wouldn't be so worried about the powerplay come playoff time. A bigger concern, IMO, is the lack of a dependable second line that will produce 5-on-5 come postseason hockey, which is a different brand than what is played October-March. As great as Prucha is (and he is very impressive), cannot count on a rookie in his first NHL post-season to carry the load if the top line is held in check. NYR's playoff opponent will try to key on the Nylander line and force other players to step up. That is where depth - offensive differencemakers - are needed.

Which is why I think NYR will look to add another proven goalscorer (Tkachuk?) between now and springtime. But that's a long way off.

Just my two cents, from the outside looking in.

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12-10-2005, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
As great as Prucha is (and he is very impressive), cannot count on a rookie in his first NHL post-season to carry the load if the top line is held in check.
Can't he? At this point, I'm willing to see just how long we can ride him, then make an educated choice as the trade deadline looms.

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12-10-2005, 06:16 PM
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We have two major problems on the powerplay.

1.) We can't win a draw in their end to save our life.
2.) We can't gain their zone to save our life.

- When you lose a draw in their zone (and it constantly happens to us) it automatically kills 20 seconds off the powerplay.
- We have this tendency to pull a one man breakout with Straka or Rucinsky in which they skate straight through the middle of the ice, attack two defenseman and try to chip it deep, while beating the d to the corner. This works probably once every three tries. And when that fails on all attempts we plant Jagr on the boards, and use a give and go to gain the zone. Those are our only two plays to gain the zone with the puck! It's ridiculous.

If you can't gain the zone, you can't get chances. With the talent on the ice things will happen, but you need to give it the opportunity to happen. I really, truly, deeply hope that Renney is aware of these two HUGE deficiencies.

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Old
12-10-2005, 06:23 PM
  #10
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Honestly, does it really matter? Getting into the playoffs is great because it will provide experience for the young players on the team. While we can't assume that Prucha will set records in the playoffs, he needs the experience just as much as Lundqvist, Tyutin, etc. Many of these players (especially Prucha and Lundqvist and the Russians on defense) are in the process of forming a solid core that hopefully will play together for several years--not just this year--and gradually make more and more noise in the playoffs.

We're playing the kids so they get better and better--not to increase their trade value in order to make a trade to bring in a veteran to get us deeper into the playoffs. (I know you know that Trottier).

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Old
12-10-2005, 11:22 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Can't he? At this point, I'm willing to see just how long we can ride him, then make an educated choice as the trade deadline looms.
I catiously agree.

I wanna see what he can do, but one of the drawbacks is that like Lundqvist, this will be the first 82 game season he's ever played and if a good trade is available, you can't wait on it.

It's a bit of an uncomfortable spot.

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Old
12-10-2005, 11:24 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
Honestly, does it really matter? Getting into the playoffs is great because it will provide experience for the young players on the team. While we can't assume that Prucha will set records in the playoffs, he needs the experience just as much as Lundqvist, Tyutin, etc. Many of these players (especially Prucha and Lundqvist and the Russians on defense) are in the process of forming a solid core that hopefully will play together for several years--not just this year--and gradually make more and more noise in the playoffs.

We're playing the kids so they get better and better--not to increase their trade value in order to make a trade to bring in a veteran to get us deeper into the playoffs. (I know you know that Trottier).
Unfortunatly getting to the playoffs also requires "Getting" there. I want the kids to get the experience, but at the same time I don't want them drained at that point either and that is a concern for a team that is essentially relying on a kid whose never even come close to playing an 82 game schedule and as a rookie, runs a higher risk of hitting a wall.

It's a delicate situation. At the end of the day, the Rangers shouldn't look to force a trade but they can't really afford not to look. This team is doing good, but this team is also getting lucky at times as well.

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Old
12-10-2005, 11:31 PM
  #13
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i love it... nyr fans don't know how good they've got it... it came together quickly, whereas the florida panthers, with all their high draft picks and accompanying expectations fail miserably... Rangers of this season have the uncanny ability to play up or down to the level of their opponent... they get worked over by teams they should be pounding on (Caps) and skate circles around solid upper echelon teams (Nashville)... it's one of the strangest seasons ever.

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Old
12-10-2005, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by +73
i love it... nyr fans don't know how good they've got it... it came together quickly, whereas the florida panthers, with all their high draft picks and accompanying expectations fail miserably... Rangers of this season have the uncanny ability to play up or down to the level of their opponent... they get worked over by teams they should be pounding on (Caps) and skate circles around solid upper echelon teams (Nashville)... it's one of the strangest seasons ever.
you know, i fall into that trap a lot but i have to say i enjoy winning a lot more then losing even if it can potentially be greater if things were different but im tired of that word potential and way to put things into perspective

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12-10-2005, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by +73
i love it... nyr fans don't know how good they've got it... it came together quickly, whereas the florida panthers, with all their high draft picks and accompanying expectations fail miserably... Rangers of this season have the uncanny ability to play up or down to the level of their opponent... they get worked over by teams they should be pounding on (Caps) and skate circles around solid upper echelon teams (Nashville)... it's one of the strangest seasons ever.
And how bout tonight against the worst team in NHL? They barely escaped by the skin of their teeth and didn't deserve 1, let alone 2 points.

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12-10-2005, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romba
And how bout tonight against the worst team in NHL? They abrely escaped by the skin of their teeth and didn't deserve 1, let alone 2 points.
lets not forget the lucky moore goal in FLA

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Old
12-10-2005, 11:39 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
lets not forget the lucky moore goal in FLA
Yea, I don't know whats luckier, that or the OT goal tonight. Unbelievable.

On the bright side, if the Rangers do make the playoffs, we shouldn't have to worry about playing garbage weak teams and getting our ***** handed to us. We may not win every game then, but we'll be in every one and playing hard.

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12-10-2005, 11:40 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romba
Yea, I don't know whats luckier, that or the OT goal tonight. Unbelievable.

On the bright side, if the Rangers do make the playoffs, we shouldn't have to worry about playing garbage weak teams and getting our ***** handed to us. We may not win every game then, but we'll be in every one and playing hard.
as the saying goes, better to be lucky then good.. good teams get these breaks, and for the most part we have deserved our wins with our goaltending or pp or whatever it is that night being the reason for it

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12-10-2005, 11:52 PM
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Just gotta be careful to not become reliant on luck, that's where danger can come from.

However i think it is important to remember that despite any success, the rebuild is begining, not at a peak.

Theoretically, the Rangers better prospects aren't here yet. However, I still think this team is going to need a bit up front for the long run.

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Old
12-10-2005, 11:55 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
This team is doing good, but this team is also getting lucky at times as well.
Understatement of the week, I'd say.

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Old
12-11-2005, 12:21 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Unfortunatly getting to the playoffs also requires "Getting" there. I want the kids to get the experience, but at the same time I don't want them drained at that point either and that is a concern for a team that is essentially relying on a kid whose never even come close to playing an 82 game schedule and as a rookie, runs a higher risk of hitting a wall.

It's a delicate situation. At the end of the day, the Rangers shouldn't look to force a trade but they can't really afford not to look. This team is doing good, but this team is also getting lucky at times as well.
This team is certainly working hard at getting there. Its' a lot farther along in the rebuilding scheme of things than most ever thought possible, but that doesn't mean going all out to make noise in the playoffs (or even make the playoffs) is an option. Sure, Lundqvist and Prucha haven't played an 82 game schedule yet, but that's part of the learning process.

And Edge, you make sound like you're willing to part with Lundqvist and/or Prucha if the right deal came along. Say it ain't so, dude!

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Old
12-11-2005, 12:26 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
If you can't gain the zone, you can't get chances.
...And gain it with speed.

Interestingly, the Pens a few years back addresed that very point by putting Straka on the backline on the powerplay to rush it up ice. Once he gained the blueline, Mario, Jagr, Kovalev, Lang, etc. went to work. Lethal. Worked magnificently in their playoff run of 2001.

***

Melrose - my original post was not a shot at Prucha, sorry if you misinterpreted it as such. I'm just being realistic, based on history. You want to (and must) count on Jagr, Straka, Kaspariatus, etc. to produce and lead your team come playoff time. Why? Been there/done that. Experience. To have the same level of expectation for a rookie is misguided, IMO.

Not saying Prucha cannot/will not produce come springtime, but one cannot realistically assume that success in regular season hockey, October-December - especially for a rookie - translates to the same production come the second season in April-June. If you wish to, go for it.

Again, we are miles away from the postseason anyway...and at least your team is headed there.

***

Brooklyn - You are correct, I get it. Wouldn't touch this NYR core of youngsters for anything. (For that matter, wouldn't touch the veteran core either.) You don't mess with success. That said, it doesn't necessarily have to be an either/or scenario come trade deadline time. If NYR can set themselves up better for a playoff run (by, for example, adding a veteran secondary scorer and/or D depth) while not mortgaging the future, why not go for it? Once in the playoffs, the idea is to win. That will be the ultimate experience for the kids.

(And I'm betting that there will be some assets that non-playoff teams will be more than willing to get rid of cheaply come February, players that could be of value to a playoff team.)


Last edited by Trottier: 12-11-2005 at 01:00 AM.
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Old
12-11-2005, 12:56 AM
  #23
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This team is certainly working hard at getting there. Its' a lot farther along in the rebuilding scheme of things than most ever thought possible, but that doesn't mean going all out to make noise in the playoffs (or even make the playoffs) is an option. Sure, Lundqvist and Prucha haven't played an 82 game schedule yet, but that's part of the learning process.
I think it's a fine line between going all out and giving it a shot with a smart deal. Lundqvist and Prucha haven't played 82 games, but personally I've always believed that takes a few years to get used to for even the best players. I wanna make sure that they can be healthy enough to enjoy their hard work.

Quote:
And Edge, you make sound like you're willing to part with Lundqvist and/or Prucha if the right deal came along. Say it ain't so, dude!
Not at all. What I am for is keeping the eyes open to add something to assist them.

I do think this team could use some help in a few areas, but I personally wouldn't go crazy trying to fill it.

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Old
12-11-2005, 01:03 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I think it's a fine line between going all out and giving it a shot with a smart deal. Lundqvist and Prucha haven't played 82 games, but personally I've always believed that takes a few years to get used to for even the best players. I wanna make sure that they can be healthy enough to enjoy their hard work.



Not at all. What I am for is keeping the eyes open to add something to assist them.

I do think this team could use some help in a few areas, but I personally wouldn't go crazy trying to fill it.
That's what I figured, just wanted to make sure!

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12-11-2005, 01:45 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
That's what I figured, just wanted to make sure!

Haven't gone that crazy yet

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