HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Habs top 20

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-15-2003, 09:57 AM
  #1
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Sark
Posts: 23,468
vCash: 500
Habs top 20

I can't change the top 20 on the Habs page, but for another site I had a slightly different list. I'm bored so I thought I would post it for reactions.


Habs Top 20

01. Mike Komisarek

02. Andrei Kastsitsyn

03. Alex Perezhogin

04. Chris Higgins

05. Ron Hainsey

06. Marcel Hossa

07. Tomas Plekanec

08. Cory Urquhart

09. Michael Ryder

10. Duncan Milroy

11. Francois Beauchemin

12. Andrew Archer

13. Jonathan Ferland

14. Josef Balej

15. Konstantin Korneev

16. Oskari Korpikari

17. Ryan O’Byrne

18. Corey Locke

19. Maxim Lapierre

20. Matt Shasby


Lambert, Puurula, Halak, Eneqvist get honorable mention

montreal is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 10:03 AM
  #2
Démon Blond
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Québec
Posts: 918
vCash: 500
I'm really not a specialist in rating and comparing talents so I'll only say that your list looks good.

Maybe I'd switch Ryder and Urquhart and drop Milroy a couple of places, putting Ferland before him... but that's me with my untrained eyes... :p

Démon Blond is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 10:05 AM
  #3
gted85
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 622
vCash: 500
looking at a list like that reminds me just how good our depth is
I can't remember the last time we had such a large group of very good prospects
good list, I agree with the majority of your picks

gted85 is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 10:08 AM
  #4
Darz
Registered User
 
Darz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Where's the ANY key?
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,424
vCash: 500
Good list...I could see Ryder up a couple more spots with his quick start, but nonetheless a good list.

Darz is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 10:15 AM
  #5
komisakick ass
Registered User
 
komisakick ass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Top Titty, Qc
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
I think Ryder and Locke are to low and Kastsytsin is to high

but good list in general

komisakick ass is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 12:24 PM
  #6
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Sark
Posts: 23,468
vCash: 500
I had a tuff time with Ryder, but I'd only move him up one spot. Him and Urquhart it's a close call IMO. But Ryder is 23 and Urquhart just turned 19. I placed Urquhart higher cause I see him as having more skill down the road when his game matures. It then becomes grit vs skill. I think its easy to say Ryder has more grit, and Cory has more flash. A tough call.

Kastistsyn too high? It's impossible to say no one really seen him play. So I made my best guess. I think very very highly of him. A better Perezhogin has me drooling on the keypad. I can't wait till next year to see him play, unless he gets called up to CSKA, cause I will get to see him then.

montreal is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 01:31 PM
  #7
komisakick ass
Registered User
 
komisakick ass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Top Titty, Qc
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal
I had a tuff time with Ryder, but I'd only move him up one spot. Him and Urquhart it's a close call IMO. But Ryder is 23 and Urquhart just turned 19. I placed Urquhart higher cause I see him as having more skill down the road when his game matures. It then becomes grit vs skill. I think its easy to say Ryder has more grit, and Cory has more flash. A tough call.

Kastistsyn too high? It's impossible to say no one really seen him play. So I made my best guess. I think very very highly of him. A better Perezhogin has me drooling on the keypad. I can't wait till next year to see him play, unless he gets called up to CSKA, cause I will get to see him then.
No one seen him play so why he is that high on the list

komisakick ass is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 01:49 PM
  #8
Top Corner2
Registered User
 
Top Corner2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,562
vCash: 500
I like this list. It's seems to be made according to talent and not how close they are to the nhl. There are so many different criterion that you can have when making such lists.

Top Corner2 is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 01:49 PM
  #9
didjuicythat
@m_desroches
 
didjuicythat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,251
vCash: 500
Amazing list. I couldn't have made any better myself. No one can't deny we have tremendous prospect depth. Many guys in this list have huge potential and some others such as Korneev, Korpikari, O'Byrne and Locke are intriguing prospects, who, depending on their progression throughout the two or three seasons to come, could surprise many Habs fans.

Obviously, I don't get to see our European prospects, so I can't really base a reliable opinion on most of them. However, everything I've read about Korpikari and Korneev on prospects websites and in your prospect reports have been pretty positive. Keep them coming!

didjuicythat is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 05:21 PM
  #10
ChemiseBleuHonnete
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,404
vCash: 500
- Milroy is WAY too high
- You should move Ryder up a few stops, he deserve it
- Higgins should be ahead of Perezhogin

ChemiseBleuHonnete is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 05:42 PM
  #11
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,252
vCash: 500
Let's see. We may have different ways of valueing prospects, but I would stick Lapierre, Korpikari and Ferland ahead of Milroy. I would stick Eneqvist and Halak ahead of Shasby.

Urquhart and Plekanec are debatable and could be switched, but no real qualms with the current order.

Top five is a given, just the order that can be debated. Personally, I would see Hainsey, Komisarek and Higgins as the top three possibly (not necessarily in that order). But all players have their cases. I haven't seen Kostitsyn so can't claim that he isn't legitimately the number two overall prospect.

An interesting list nonetheless. Good work!

Mike8 is offline  
Old
10-15-2003, 05:53 PM
  #12
Harry Kakalovich
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 882
vCash: 500
good list. i would switch higgins and perezhogin. i'd put ryder 7th and plekanec 9th. i'd put balej 10th and keep it the same after that (maybe move ferland up a smidge, ahead of archer). good fun!

Harry Kakalovich is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 08:34 AM
  #13
Dynasty
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal
I can't change the top 20 on the Habs page, but for another site I had a slightly different list. I'm bored so I thought I would post it for reactions.


09. Michael Ryder

To be quite blunt, I think your list sucks!!...Ryder has all but graduated and you place him at # 9. Clearly, he currently has the best chance of any player on this list of staying in the NHL whether it be Montreal or not...As much as I am biased in favour of Ryder, you seem to have an even stronger bias against him...Man, it is time for you to wake up and admit how wrong you were, and still is, in predicting the chances of Ryder making the NHL! Otherwise, it isn't going to take very long to prove it!

Dynasty is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 09:25 AM
  #14
Orange
Registered User
 
Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,153
vCash: 500
I agree that it's though to place Ryder in the current list, but I agree to a switch between him and Urquhart in the top 20. I also agree about putting Higgins ahead of Perez. All in all those are two very minor changes, considering in both cases I think those are players that have very close top potential (but in the case of Ryder, he has transformed most of that potential already, which is why I give him the go-ahead compared to Urquhart).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynasty
To be quite blunt, I think your list sucks!!...Ryder has all but graduated and you place him at # 9. Clearly, he currently has the best chance of any player on this list of staying in the NHL whether it be Montreal or not...As much as I am biased in favour of Ryder, you seem to have an even stronger bias against him...Man, it is time for you to wake up and admit how wrong you were, and still is, in predicting the chances of Ryder making the NHL! Otherwise, it isn't going to take very long to prove it!
You realy need to take it down a notch when it comes to Ryder. You're nothing but virulent to people that don't put Ryder on the highest pedestal possible. Ever stop to think you might be the one that's wrong ? Before you reply to this, you should stop and think about it.

Orange is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 12:27 PM
  #15
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Sark
Posts: 23,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by komisakick ass
No one seen him play so why he is that high on the list

Cause he has to go somewhere, and from what I've read that's where he goes in my book.

montreal is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 12:33 PM
  #16
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Sark
Posts: 23,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Let's see. We may have different ways of valueing prospects, but I would stick Lapierre, Korpikari and Ferland ahead of Milroy. I would stick Eneqvist and Halak ahead of Shasby.

Urquhart and Plekanec are debatable and could be switched, but no real qualms with the current order.

Top five is a given, just the order that can be debated. Personally, I would see Hainsey, Komisarek and Higgins as the top three possibly (not necessarily in that order). But all players have their cases. I haven't seen Kostitsyn so can't claim that he isn't legitimately the number two overall prospect.

An interesting list nonetheless. Good work!

I guess I'm a big fan of Milroy's, I like his game a lot and think he has a ton of skill. Lapierre I don't think has the skill level to be much higher. Korpikari I can't really say till next week, but I do see him being moved up for sure. Ferland I am a big fan and want to put him higher, but I do have concerns over his skating.

Urquhart Plekanec and Ryder I had all around the same spots, so they were tough to place. I wanted to do the top 20 in layers, but it was difficult to get it from my head to paper.

So you think Hainsey is #1? I don't dislike him, but I think Komo has the better work ethic and raw skills. Higgins and Perezhogin to me are neck and neck. Perezhogin is more flash, so I guess I fall for that. I think he's unreal talent, and Kastsitsyn just makes it so hard to do the list. If Kastsitsyn is as good as they say, wow! I buying in hook line and sinker.

montreal is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 12:43 PM
  #17
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Sark
Posts: 23,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynasty
To be quite blunt, I think your list sucks!!...Ryder has all but graduated and you place him at # 9. Clearly, he currently has the best chance of any player on this list of staying in the NHL whether it be Montreal or not...As much as I am biased in favour of Ryder, you seem to have an even stronger bias against him...Man, it is time for you to wake up and admit how wrong you were, and still is, in predicting the chances of Ryder making the NHL! Otherwise, it isn't going to take very long to prove it!

The list says the Habs top 20 prospects. No where does it say who is NHL ready. I can't believe you would even think that. Here's a clue, prospects at different ages, can't be compared by who's more NHL ready. Guys that are 18, wouldn't make the list cause the 23, 22, and 21 year olds would be ahead of them for the most part. You could have replied much better.

Ryder is a good prospect, but I don't think he is as skilled as Hossa, Komo, Hainsey, Higgins, Plekanec, or Urquhart. It's great to see he's in the NHL. When he was sent down to the ECHL for the 2nd time, I wrote him off. His balance and skating made me think he couldn't make it. I almost went to see him play in the ECHL All Star game, but then he got called up and never went back. He's made great progress in his skating, speed, and balance, it's something other plays should be looking at.

I'm wrong a lot, but I don't see how I was wrong on Ryder. After seeing him in Quebec in the 2nd half, I saw the improvement, as he got really hot towards the end of season, getting a lot of points and was moved to the top 6. Since then I've been kind of high on him. Not overlly high, as I think is going on now, but I have liked him for awhile now.

But thanks for the intelligent reply.

montreal is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 12:44 PM
  #18
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Sark
Posts: 23,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plekanec
It's not Montreal who said Ryder was'nt NHL caliber, it's me! Montreal always believed in Ryder's chances to make it!

By the way, that list is mainly based on upside and Ryder is really not too low on that list... You seems forget that he is 23 years old and that we have some nice prospects alot more skilled in the system!

IMO that's a really nice list... The only one I find too high is Milroy but it's just IMO..


You make some good points

montreal is offline  
Old
10-16-2003, 06:18 PM
  #19
jan_bulis_38
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
I don't know for you but I think that o'byrne has to be higher, he seem to be a very good D. Just what I thought!!!
but very very good list!!

 
Old
10-16-2003, 08:39 PM
  #20
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal
I guess I'm a big fan of Milroy's, I like his game a lot and think he has a ton of skill. Lapierre I don't think has the skill level to be much higher. Korpikari I can't really say till next week, but I do see him being moved up for sure. Ferland I am a big fan and want to put him higher, but I do have concerns over his skating.

Urquhart Plekanec and Ryder I had all around the same spots, so they were tough to place. I wanted to do the top 20 in layers, but it was difficult to get it from my head to paper.

So you think Hainsey is #1? I don't dislike him, but I think Komo has the better work ethic and raw skills. Higgins and Perezhogin to me are neck and neck. Perezhogin is more flash, so I guess I fall for that. I think he's unreal talent, and Kastsitsyn just makes it so hard to do the list. If Kastsitsyn is as good as they say, wow! I buying in hook line and sinker.
You're right that Lapierre doesn't bring the skill that a Milroy does. But he's a got excellent speed, and he's a gamer. He brings his 'A' game every shift. Lapierre brings the grit, strength, work ethic, and fundamentals to the rink that few Hab prospects or current players have. He'll never be a top 6 forward, but his potential is that of a strong third liner that wreaks havoc on the ice and is tossed on the ice against the opposition's top line. Definitely an agitator, too. Low-end potential is to be a Mike Danton type of player, with less mental instability.

I agree Komisarek has more potential than Hainsey... I would just have Hainsey in my top three at this point. But as I said, it's debatable and he (and Higgins) are on the same level as Perezhogin in my mind.

Mike8 is offline  
Old
10-17-2003, 04:56 AM
  #21
Dynasty
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal
The list says the Habs top 20 prospects. No where does it say who is NHL ready. I can't believe you would even think that. Here's a clue, prospects at different ages, can't be compared by who's more NHL ready. Guys that are 18, wouldn't make the list cause the 23, 22, and 21 year olds would be ahead of them for the most part. You could have replied much better.

Ryder is a good prospect, but I don't think he is as skilled as Hossa, Komo, Hainsey, Higgins, Plekanec, or Urquhart. It's great to see he's in the NHL. When he was sent down to the ECHL for the 2nd time, I wrote him off. His balance and skating made me think he couldn't make it. I almost went to see him play in the ECHL All Star game, but then he got called up and never went back. He's made great progress in his skating, speed, and balance, it's something other plays should be looking at.

I'm wrong a lot, but I don't see how I was wrong on Ryder. After seeing him in Quebec in the 2nd half, I saw the improvement, as he got really hot towards the end of season, getting a lot of points and was moved to the top 6. Since then I've been kind of high on him. Not overlly high, as I think is going on now, but I have liked him for awhile now.

But thanks for the intelligent reply.


Okay, so I may have been a little bit harsh with my comments...Hell, I was having a bad day!...I am willing to compromise with you but as you so admirably admitted you were completely wrong when you wrote Ryder off after "he was sent down to the ECHL for the 2nd time"...It's not so much that you were wrong as it was for your reasons for writing him off...Personally, I feel it had alot more to do with lack of opportunity and alot less with skills!!...But this is just my opinion, and whether or not you think it is intelligent concerns me not!!...My big concern though is that the Canadiens would give up on a special player (Ryder) who can play a mojor role in turning around this team on the road to success!...I know it's only been 4 games but I think his style of play is very contagious and is already impacting on the play of his team mates in a positive way!!

Cheers!!

Dynasty is offline  
Old
10-17-2003, 05:19 AM
  #22
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynasty
Okay, so I may have been a little bit harsh with my comments...Hell, I was having a bad day!...I am willing to compromise with you but as you so admirably admitted you were completely wrong when you wrote Ryder off after "he was sent down to the ECHL for the 2nd time"...It's not so much that you were wrong as it was for your reasons for writing him off...Personally, I feel it had alot more to do with lack of opportunity and alot less with skills!!...But this is just my opinion, and whether or not you think it is intelligent concerns me not!!...My big concern though is that the Canadiens would give up on a special player (Ryder) who can play a mojor role in turning around this team on the road to success!...I know it's only been 4 games but I think his style of play is very contagious and is already impacting on the play of his team mates in a positive way!!

Cheers!!
Had you ever seen Ryder in training camp prior to this season? If you had, you wouldn't be wondering why he received little opportunity on the NHL level. He didn't deserve it.

Mike8 is offline  
Old
10-17-2003, 05:25 AM
  #23
KnuklZ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynasty
Okay, so I may have been a little bit harsh with my comments...Hell, I was having a bad day!...I am willing to compromise with you but as you so admirably admitted you were completely wrong when you wrote Ryder off after "he was sent down to the ECHL for the 2nd time"...It's not so much that you were wrong as it was for your reasons for writing him off...Personally, I feel it had alot more to do with lack of opportunity and alot less with skills!!...But this is just my opinion, and whether or not you think it is intelligent concerns me not!!...My big concern though is that the Canadiens would give up on a special player (Ryder) who can play a mojor role in turning around this team on the road to success!...I know it's only been 4 games but I think his style of play is very contagious and is already impacting on the play of his team mates in a positive way!!

Cheers!!
Its always great to see prospects become NHL players after they were written off (thats what happens when players are demoted to play in the ECHL). Many players in Ryders position could have given up many times but it shows moreso what a fighter he is and not that MTL and Montreal were wrong about assessing him. When he was sent down he was not able to succeed in the AHL so obviously he wasnt the saviour back then. Proving to the Habs that he can handle adversity and making huge improvements is really the reason why he was promoted to the AHL and succeeding there and finally being promoted to the NHL.

Think about it this way...many players have been demoted to the ECHL and I think that Ryder is the first person to make it back that BIG in the MTL organization. What it taught us is that we should NOT give up on prospects again after they were demoted as they can still become better players even when they are 23 years old!

So don't blame Montreal for giving up on him as I think he judges players very well

KnuklZ is offline  
Old
10-17-2003, 12:13 PM
  #24
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Sark
Posts: 23,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jan_bulis_38
I don't know for you but I think that o'byrne has to be higher, he seem to be a very good D. Just what I thought!!!
but very very good list!!


Maybe, but the fact that he didn't play major junior A has to be of a concern. He's in the top defensive system in the NCAA, which should be great for him. I know that I will see at least 2 games of his for sure, but I should be able to get in more then that. I let you know what I see when I see it.

montreal is offline  
Old
10-17-2003, 12:19 PM
  #25
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Sark
Posts: 23,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
You're right that Lapierre doesn't bring the skill that a Milroy does. But he's a got excellent speed, and he's a gamer. He brings his 'A' game every shift. Lapierre brings the grit, strength, work ethic, and fundamentals to the rink that few Hab prospects or current players have. He'll never be a top 6 forward, but his potential is that of a strong third liner that wreaks havoc on the ice and is tossed on the ice against the opposition's top line. Definitely an agitator, too. Low-end potential is to be a Mike Danton type of player, with less mental instability.

I agree Komisarek has more potential than Hainsey... I would just have Hainsey in my top three at this point. But as I said, it's debatable and he (and Higgins) are on the same level as Perezhogin in my mind.

Lapierre's style is unlike any others which is very good news for him. But his lack of skills is a concern to me. I think Vigneault can do a lot for Lapierre, but in listening to the Rocket games on the radio, I haven't heard much positives. He's been taking some dumb penalties, and hasn't been able to score much at all or create a whole lot on offense.

I would also put Higgins, Hainsey and Perezhogin in the same group skill wise, but I got to put one in front of the other, so my personal pick is Perezhogin over Higgins and Hainsey, but it's so very close. I even think Hossa is in that group, skill wise for sure, IMO, but he's lacking a few things which are of a concern.

montreal is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:59 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.