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Pens@Wings GDT 12/12/05 7:30PM

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Old
12-12-2005, 08:25 PM
  #51
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oooooo i knew it was too good to be true... sweet..


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12-12-2005, 08:25 PM
  #52
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Bah, lame garbage-time goal.

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12-12-2005, 08:32 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
Bah, lame garbage-time goal.
At another forum a handful of posters decided to celebrate the shutout in the waning seconds. Superstitions rule!

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12-12-2005, 09:07 PM
  #54
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Huds disappears again late in the game Why won't he play him? I didn't think he looked bad once he got some consistent minutes. How is he going to find an rythmn if he isn't playing on a regular basis?

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12-12-2005, 09:09 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
So, best game of the season for the Red Wings?

Not to take anything away...but the Penguins have seemingly been on the receiving end of about 10 "best games of the season" and it's no coincidence.

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Old
12-12-2005, 09:24 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Galvin
Huds disappears again late in the game Why won't he play him? I didn't think he looked bad once he got some consistent minutes. How is he going to find an rythmn if he isn't playing on a regular basis?
He actually played close to 10 minutes. He had a slow 1st period but decent shifts after that until about 8 minutes remaining in the game. He, Mowers, and Holmstrom didn't see the ice again at that point while we tried to ice the win.

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12-12-2005, 09:41 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Spitfire11
Did you catch what he said to Crosby before the faceoff? I missed it.
It was some kind of joke about Crosby's name, "your name isn't Bing" or something like that.

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12-12-2005, 11:00 PM
  #58
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this thread has so many z's! don't think i've ever seen so many. i think z has silenced those who said z was very overrated. don't hear that **** anymore, do we? z is tied w/ alfie and kiprusoff for 5th in NHL.com's season 3 stars standings. also good to see that he's playing C.

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12-12-2005, 11:48 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4

Wings win 5-1. Zetterberg stays hot.

Zetterberg with 2 goals and 2 assists
Homer gets a PP tally
Lidstrom with a goal and an assist
Sameulsson with a goal

Recchi for the Pens
Damn...not a bad prediction on my part, eh?

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12-13-2005, 12:15 AM
  #60
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watching the re-run of the game on OLN


the shorty by Zetterberg was a thing of beauty

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Old
12-13-2005, 12:51 AM
  #61
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What a great game

Zetterberg is amazing at centre position, I just hope that Babcock let him play there when Lang returns from injury. I read in a article that Babcock moves Zetterberg back at left wing as soon as Lang returns form injury…I just hope that he doesn’t do that.

Like I said in previous post, I am not a Ozzy fan! But he has won his last 4 straight starts and tonight he was amazing on 17 shots. A nice save from close range, when Pittsburgh trough the puck from behind the net in front and Ozzy just dropt down and made a very good save. Then he made 2 spectacular saves on the PP breakaway, just after Fleury robbed Shanahan. My favourite was he glove save on Gonchar…that was just AWESOME, I think I watched it 10 times. In the 1 period he already robbed Gonchar.

Osgood is making a strong case for himself and deserves the #1 spot in goal.

Nice game to see on NHL Highlights!

P.S. I believe Lidstrom is back?

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12-13-2005, 01:00 AM
  #62
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This is how it should be again !

The Wings played with great confidence, which was nice to see.
Almost a shut-out for Ozzy, but a great glovesave on Gonchar ! Wow !

Ozzy is known to like to have a ton of shots fired at him, so this was not his kind of game. Still, he was sharp when needed to be.
Good to see that he's getting hus usual form back.

When Manny returns when he have TWO goaltenders that can get us somewhere !

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Old
12-13-2005, 09:03 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuJo#31

P.S. I believe Lidstrom is back?
He never left. Its just that some people on here are way too hard to please.

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12-13-2005, 09:07 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
He never left. Its just that some people on here are way too hard to please.
Yep!

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12-13-2005, 10:07 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
He never left. Its just that some people on here are way too hard to please.
I liked the goal, but I also saw him lose a race to the puck when he had about 15 feet on the guy and only 15 feet to the puck. The defense is not there, folks. He is the slowest guy on the team.

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12-13-2005, 11:12 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
I liked the goal, but I also saw him lose a race to the puck when he had about 15 feet on the guy and only 15 feet to the puck. The defense is not there, folks. He is the slowest guy on the team.
Yup, I saw that play. Stevie on a bad knee day might be slower than Nick, but that's it.

The wings have had some great defenders at the tail end of their career in recent history. Fetisov who retired in 98, Murphy who retired in 2001 and Duchesne who retired in 2002. Based on that trio I can tell the end is near for Nick. He'll always have the intelligence, but his shot from the point is gone and the wheels are falling off.

And yes, he's had two solid offensive games padding his point total. But when you break down the numbers it fleshes out what is really going on. Nick has 4g total, 3 from the PP and 1 empty netter. And he's got 22 assists, a whopping 18 of which come from the PP. A lot of those helpers were just dishing the puck to Schneider or Williams who banged home a slapper. At even strengh Nick's lack of speed has meant he can't get involved offensively because he won't make it back. In contrast, Schneider has 3 goals and 9 assists at EV.

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Old
12-13-2005, 11:22 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
Yup, I saw that play. Stevie on a bad knee day might be slower than Nick, but that's it.

The wings have had some great defenders at the tail end of their career in recent history. Fetisov who retired in 98, Murphy who retired in 2001 and Duchesne who retired in 2002. Based on that trio I can tell the end is near for Nick. He'll always have the intelligence, but his shot from the point is gone and the wheels are falling off.

And yes, he's had two solid offensive games padding his point total. But when you break down the numbers it fleshes out what is really going on. Nick has 4g total, 3 from the PP and 1 empty netter. And he's got 22 assists, a whopping 18 of which come from the PP. A lot of those helpers were just dishing the puck to Schneider or Williams who banged home a slapper. At even strengh Nick's lack of speed has meant he can't get involved offensively because he won't make it back. In contrast, Schneider has 3 goals and 9 assists at EV.
Murphy drove me NUTS because I thought he stayed at least two years too long. He was obviously a liability on defense his last season. I'd really hate to have to see Nick in a situation like that, particularly if they give him another contract for 6 million-plus, as some here have suggested. I think they should try to re-sign him for a lot less and adjust his role. He's good on the PP, he's good on the PK, but even strength, he's not what he used to be, not even close. They need a young stud defenseman to eat up 30 minutes a night so Nick doesn't have to. As I'm sure everyone here knows by now, I think that guy should be Chara. Ottawa will try to lowball him and Detroit has to be one of the first places a guy like that would look. If Ottawa is dumb enough to let him get away, he could be a cornerstone here for 5 or more years.

Think of this potential defense corps-
Chara, Kronwall, Quincey, Lebda, Kindl, Meech, and either May or Mielonen or another big stay at home guy. The homegrown guys would be inexpensive so paying Chara a huge contract wouldn't be so bad.

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12-13-2005, 12:12 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
I liked the goal, but I also saw him lose a race to the puck when he had about 15 feet on the guy and only 15 feet to the puck. The defense is not there, folks. He is the slowest guy on the team.
He was never fast. I am really tired of hearing how he is slow now. Nicks game has always been position. He is still RARELY out of position. Does he make more mistakes now then he used to? Yes. But when you play PERFECT defense for most of your career, you get held to a different standard. He is still better than 90-95% of the defensman in the NHL. I want him on this team. Other teams would kill to have him.

The defense is still there. Not as rediculously awesome as he once was...but still great.

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12-13-2005, 12:18 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro

Think of this potential defense corps-
Chara, Kronwall, Quincey, Lebda, Kindl, Meech, and either May or Mielonen or another big stay at home guy. The homegrown guys would be inexpensive so paying Chara a huge contract wouldn't be so bad.
Are you serious?

Chara - awesome guy to build around, I will agree there, but he WILL get 7.6 million from someone next season, and I dont see that being Detroit
Kronwall - so far we still know NOTHING about how good or bad he will be
Quincey - never been a huge prospect and will not be a top 4 pairing guy, most likely
Lebda - been a nice surprise, but again...not a top 4 pairing guy
Meech - see Quincey
Kindl - too early too tell
May & Meilonen - I dont know enough about these guys to make a true opinion

I think you are really being WAY too optimisitc that these guys will all be good NHL players.

I hope I am wrong and all these homegrown guys are leading the way for the Wings in 3-4 years. But realistically, I dont see all these guys panning out. If we get 1 stud and 1 average guy we should be happy.

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Old
12-13-2005, 12:22 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Tjardus Greidanus
Not to take anything away...but the Penguins have seemingly been on the receiving end of about 10 "best games of the season" and it's no coincidence.
Yeah, other than Fleury, the Pens looked pretty lifeless last night. The giveaway by Gonchar was a thing of beauty.

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Old
12-13-2005, 12:27 PM
  #71
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I will reitirate again.

I would LOVE to have Zdeno Chara wearing the Winged Wheel next year too. But sarcastro says in one post that he "hopes" the Wings could get him for 5-6 million. Well...thats not going to happen. Chara will get a long term max deal from somebody, and I dont think it will be Detroit.

Lidstrom is still a strong Dman and could give the Wings 2 more solid seasons. I think some of you are concerned that the Wings are still built around Lidstrom and that the Wings are going to lock him up for 5 more years. I dont want to see that at all either. But he can still be a great player for them for the next 2 seasons or so. His speed is down, but all of his other extraordinary skills are still there. Great players can compensate for their inabilities with other attributes.

Lidstrom will not leave for the highest payday next season. He will give the Wings every chance to keep him at a reduced salary. If we can get him to stay for around 4- 4.5 million for 2 more years, I think that would be fine.

Seriously...I am admitting that his speed isnt what it used to be. But why point out every hooking play or foot race that the guy loses? Chris Pronger has been losing foot races his whole career and is widely accepted as one of the best dmen of the past decade. And again....Lidstrom was never fast. His game has NEVER been speed. Its been position, and its still position.

And he isnt "padding his stats" the past 3 games. He was in the Top 10 in defensive scoring before this past 3 games.

You guys make it sound like he is some sort of liability out there. Like I said above...stop being so damn hard to please.

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Old
12-13-2005, 01:41 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
He was never fast. I am really tired of hearing how he is slow now. Nicks game has always been position. He is still RARELY out of position. Does he make more mistakes now then he used to? Yes. But when you play PERFECT defense for most of your career, you get held to a different standard. He is still better than 90-95% of the defensman in the NHL. I want him on this team. Other teams would kill to have him.

The defense is still there. Not as rediculously awesome as he once was...but still great.
He was never fast, but he used to move pretty well. Now he doesn't really move much at all. If you saw the play I mentioned above, you'd probably agree with me. And it's not the first time that's happened this year. It's not about mistakes as much as it's about erosion of skill.

Other teams were lining up to throw money at guys like Bobby Holik, Marty Lapointe, and others. Just because there are GMs out there desperate enough to overpay grossly for players doesn't mean we should. See NY Rangers, 1995-2003.

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12-13-2005, 02:00 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
Are you serious?

Chara - awesome guy to build around, I will agree there, but he WILL get 7.6 million from someone next season, and I dont see that being Detroit
Kronwall - so far we still know NOTHING about how good or bad he will be
Quincey - never been a huge prospect and will not be a top 4 pairing guy, most likely
Lebda - been a nice surprise, but again...not a top 4 pairing guy
Meech - see Quincey
Kindl - too early too tell
May & Meilonen - I dont know enough about these guys to make a true opinion

I think you are really being WAY too optimisitc that these guys will all be good NHL players.

I hope I am wrong and all these homegrown guys are leading the way for the Wings in 3-4 years. But realistically, I dont see all these guys panning out. If we get 1 stud and 1 average guy we should be happy.
Here's the way I see the guys I mentioned-

Chara-I obviously like this guy a lot. Big, tough, talented, young, moves well, he does it all and he's just entering his prime.
Kronwall-This guy has all the talent in the world. He hits well, and not just for a little guy. He skates like the wind and he's got all the offensive tools to be a special player. The trick is staying healthy. His talent is unquestionable.
Quincey-He has been GR's best defenseman as a 21 year old rookie. He plays a solid defensive game and is physical, and he's smart with the puck. Not a big scorer, but a good Dman. I believe he will be a 2nd pairing defenseman, and a good one. Just because he's not highly touted doesn't mean he won't be a good player. Look at Franzen, Lebda, Samuelsson, and Cleary as examples just on the Wings.
Lebda can also be a 2nd pairing guy. He's good on the PP, he's been killing penalties lately (the Wings have been better lately on the PK, too) and he is no slouch defensively. I like his game, and I think in a couple years he and Quincey will make a solid 2nd pair.
We don't know if Meech will make it. He's been passed by Quincey and Lebda on the depth chart, but he is still a talented guy who could be a 5th or 6th defenseman.
Kindl looks great so far. Nothing is certain, but he looks very, very good.
May and Mielonen, by all accounts, are developing into solid, unspectacular depth defense types.

You can't really question whether Kronwall or Lebda will pan out, because they both have. Kronwall has injury issues, but he has panned out. Quincey has played a couple games in Detroit this year and did not look out of place. I would say he has panned out also. The guys you don't know about are Kindl and some of the depth guys. There may be no studs if Kronwall can't stay healthy, but there are at least 2 solid depth guys. The lack of a sure-thing top guy is even more reason to go after Chara, who would anchor the D for years.

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Old
12-13-2005, 02:08 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
I will reitirate again.

I would LOVE to have Zdeno Chara wearing the Winged Wheel next year too. But sarcastro says in one post that he "hopes" the Wings could get him for 5-6 million. Well...thats not going to happen. Chara will get a long term max deal from somebody, and I dont think it will be Detroit.

Lidstrom is still a strong Dman and could give the Wings 2 more solid seasons. I think some of you are concerned that the Wings are still built around Lidstrom and that the Wings are going to lock him up for 5 more years. I dont want to see that at all either. But he can still be a great player for them for the next 2 seasons or so. His speed is down, but all of his other extraordinary skills are still there. Great players can compensate for their inabilities with other attributes.

Lidstrom will not leave for the highest payday next season. He will give the Wings every chance to keep him at a reduced salary. If we can get him to stay for around 4- 4.5 million for 2 more years, I think that would be fine.

Seriously...I am admitting that his speed isnt what it used to be. But why point out every hooking play or foot race that the guy loses? Chris Pronger has been losing foot races his whole career and is widely accepted as one of the best dmen of the past decade. And again....Lidstrom was never fast. His game has NEVER been speed. Its been position, and its still position.

And he isnt "padding his stats" the past 3 games. He was in the Top 10 in defensive scoring before this past 3 games.

You guys make it sound like he is some sort of liability out there. Like I said above...stop being so damn hard to please.
Thank you. What's weird is that people will make every excuse in the book for Yzerman to continue skating around out there while his body literally falls apart, but the minute Nik loses a little bit of what he had, it's off to the glue factory with him. A lot of disrespect for one of the top 10 all-time great players in the history of this franchise.

One instructive thing to look at is how his "contemporaries" are playing this season and adapting to the new style and rules. As far as I'm concerned, Nik has outperformed all of Niedermayer, Blake, Pronger, and Gonchar on both sides of the puck. Schneider is really the only player from that age group who is performing as well or better.

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12-13-2005, 02:21 PM
  #75
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Some of you guys seem to be having a hard time getting what I'm saying here. I'm not bashing Lidstrom, just like I haven't been bashing Yzerman. I'm saying that for a guy being paid the max, Lidstrom is not getting it done. For a guy making half the max, he is not getting it done. The point totals are nice and shiny, but his defensive play is not very good anymore. He still has value because he is very good on the PK (largely because he's not going end-to-end and doesn't have to skate much) and the PP (see PK). But in terms of his defense, it's not that good anymore. That's fine. He's getting older. But I'm saying that some team out there will throw 5 or 6 million at him, and the Wings would be morons to match it. He's not worth it. If they can't get him back at the right price, then they shouldn't bring him back. That's my position.

As far as the players you've mentioned, most are having horrible seasons. Gonchar is terrible. Blake has not been very good. Pronger and Niedermayer have been average. All are highly overpaid. But there's a common denominator - except for Gonchar, who has never played any sort of D, they are all on the far side of 30 and have albatross contracts. In the case of Pronger, that contract isn't going anywhere for another 4 years. That's why the Wings would do well to look at guys that are going to be UFAs, see who has played well in the new system, and go after him. Nick doesn't fit those standards anymore. They should not give him big money. Not as a sign of disrespect, but as a business reality. Besides, Nick extorted tens of millions out of the Wings by threatening to go back to Sweden. He's rich beyond his wildest dreams and will go into the Hall of Fame as one of the top 5 defensemen of all time. He'll be fine.

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