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Old
10-14-2003, 09:32 PM
  #1
WFHACommish
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re: MacT

I am a supporter of MacT and i think he is a good coach. However, right now, I am starting to question his coaching abiilities. The team had a bad game in VAN and he still hasn't stirred things up by putting in semenov. Next thing you know in the third period, he jumbles all 4 lines and you don't know who's 1st and who's on the 4th line.

This is bad as there is no organization whatsoever. Players don't know their role. You had Torres, clearly at this point in time a 3rd or 4th line crash and bang type with Hemsky, our Golden Boy.

MacT better start getting our guys together or it's going to be a long season.

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10-14-2003, 09:35 PM
  #2
jadeddog
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this is typical macT stuff though really.... each year he has done the same thing, screwed around with lines and screwed around with lines

but in his defence, every year the team is so different that you cant just stay with the lines (basically) that you had the year before

i wonder if all the player movement is finally gonna catch up with the oilers this year.... sure looks like it so far............

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10-14-2003, 10:02 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog
this is typical macT stuff though really.... each year he has done the same thing, screwed around with lines and screwed around with lines

but in his defence, every year the team is so different that you cant just stay with the lines (basically) that you had the year before
This is pretty much how I look at MacTavish, too. I can understand the arguement that the team is never the same, but it seems like he shuffles his lines like a pack of cards before a game - moreso than any other coach I've ever seen with the possible exception of Peter Laviolette last year on Long Island.

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10-15-2003, 07:03 AM
  #4
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Well he does that to try and spark some offense like alot of coaches. But his problem is the powerplay and the lack of motivation he brings. I'm not even basing this on this year. I'm basing it on the last two years how the team can go on long slides and play like crap - he trys all kinds of things, but fails miserably at getting the team rolling. Defensively he's as good as most (heck, he's probably in the top 7 or 8, but he isn't doing much besides that).

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10-15-2003, 08:09 AM
  #5
Digger12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog
this is typical macT stuff though really.... each year he has done the same thing, screwed around with lines and screwed around with lines

but in his defence, every year the team is so different that you cant just stay with the lines (basically) that you had the year before

i wonder if all the player movement is finally gonna catch up with the oilers this year.... sure looks like it so far............
Let's play coach for a second...if your team hasn't scored a goal (hell, haven't even come close) for the last 5 periods, wouldn't YOU start mixing the lines around? I know I would. I think most coaches would've done the same as well. MacT's throwing the mess against a wall, hoping something will stick.

Right now he has 2 set lines, RPM and Torres/Horcoff/Laraque. RPM is currently showing their play from last year looks more like a 'lightning in a bottle' thing than something they can sustain, and the Torque line, while looking good most shifts, looks like it could be broken up to address issues with the top 2 lines.

Here's the top 6:

Smyth..........3-2-0-2, 6 PIM, 6 shots
Hemsky........3-0-2-2, 0 PIM, 2 shots
York............3-0-0-0, 2 PIM, 9 shots
Isbister.........3-0-0-0, 13 PIM, 2 shots
Chimera........3-1-0-1, 2 PIM, 6 shots
Dvorak..........3-0-1-1, 2 PIM, 2 shots

Total: 18 GP, 3 G, 3 A, 6 Points, 25 PIM, 27 shots.

Not nearly enough shots, not nearly enough production.

Oh yeah, here's RPM:

Reasoner.......3-0-0-0, 2 PIM, 1 shot
Moreau.........3-0-0-0, 2 PIM, 3 shots
Pisani............3-0-0-0, 0 PIM, 0 shots

Total: 9 GP, 0 G, 0 A, 0 Points, 4 PIM, 4 shots.

I've felt more of a pulse from a week old cadaver.

Finally, here's Torque:

Horcoff.........3-1-1-2, 2 PIM, 3 shots
Laraque........3-0-1-1, 4 PIM, 2 shots
Torres..........3-1-1-2, 4 PIM, 7 shots

Total: 9 GP, 2 G, 3 A, 5 Points, 10 PIM, 12 shots.

When your "4th" line has only 1 less point than YOUR FIRST BLOODY 3 LINES COMBINED, it's time to ask some hard questions about some of the players on this team. It's obvious that some players were far more ready to put in some effort than others.

Obviously it's too early for mass hysteria, but it's the way this team's lost that has me a bit concerned.

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10-15-2003, 08:17 AM
  #6
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First Mac-T gets blamed for not changing things up (Semenov), then he gets blamed for mixing it up too much (line juggling).

Does anyone think that Semenov earned a place in the top 6? This year he hasn't, at least not based on what I have read in the papers, and briefly seen. You are going to throw in a player who doesn't deserve it? What message does that send?

As for the line juggling, I mean what else are you going to do? The team hasn't scored since the day before forever, and your best players aren't clicking, and the guys who are playing their best, just can't find the twine... well any decent coach is going to put the guys who are playing the best with the guys who are supposed to be scoring, it only makes sense. It isn't like the lines were clicking, and he was doing it from the start of the game. It was based on need.

The season is 3 games old. We went from "Dynamic offense, not needing Comrie" after game 1 to this? Come on now guys, give it time.

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10-15-2003, 08:21 AM
  #7
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no matter how poorly semenov played he can't possibly be worse than cross.

seriously.

cross goes beyond "bad" all the way to "insulting". i was literally insulted to have to watch that useless pilon get top pairing icetime in the last night.

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10-15-2003, 08:53 AM
  #8
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good call lawndemon. cross looks terrible out there and putting him on the first defensive pairing is not a good sign. he is slow and always gets beat on the outside, yes he can be good defensively but his positioning this year has been way off. semenov is young we have to live with his mistakes and hopefully he comes around, cross on the other hand has been in this league for awhile now and is not consistent plus his skating has not improved. on a team that supposedly is the fastest in the league, cross(he isnt the only one, im looking at you ferguson) is lowering that standard.
either way let semenov play or send him to the minors. having him languish in the pressbox is not going to help him one bit.
regardless i do like mact but i question a lot of the moves so far this year. let the kids play.

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Old
10-15-2003, 10:13 AM
  #9
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The crying about the defense may be warrented but my god you just lost 1-0 to the Calgary Flames. The focus should be on finding a way to create scoring chances and being more effective on the PP. There was almost nothing created last night.

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10-15-2003, 10:41 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwisshockeyAcademy
The crying about the defense may be warrented but my god you just lost 1-0 to the Calgary Flames. The focus should be on finding a way to create scoring chances and being more effective on the PP. There was almost nothing created last night.
do you understand how the game of hockey works?

if the defense are not capable of moving the puck with quick, crisp passes then the forwards are unable to gain momentum into the offensive zone. a solid, puck moving defense breeds offence. The powerplay is very dependent on the ability of the defensemen to make good dumps and smart passes that allow the forwards to gain the zone. Furthermore, they are integral in facilitating control and momentum with the man advantage. Essentially, the Dmen are (next to the goalie) the most important players on the ice.

just because it's a low scoring game doesn't mean the defensemen played well. it means the entire team contributed to a solid 2-way game. if the forwards don't back-check it doesn't matter how good your defensemen are you are still going to get blown out.

in summary, until the oiler defense manages to become more efficient moving the puck (ie: keep cross off the ice) the team will continue to struggle putting the puck in the net. hence, our defense sucks.

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10-15-2003, 01:35 PM
  #11
SwisshockeyAcademy
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I understand how the game of hockey works. This thread basically was blaming mactavish for not putting in Semenov. I can see with my eyes that Cross, ferguson Smith and Staios all struggled getting the puck up the ice effectively, even brewer was nothing special. if you think that Semenov can come in be a difference maker on his puck movement then fine. if not they are going to have to find a way to create offence without them. They have no outside shooter at the forward position on the PP and really no gun on defense either. So unless Comrie can bring you a puck moving D man you will have to get better from within. The only guys that have shown the ability to control the puck on the wall and create chances off the cycle are Smyth and Laraque. I will agree with though in summary that Semenov for Cross would at least make it a little better. Still think the forwards are a group without a plan or chemistry and that will have to be worked out if they want to score goals. Back to back shutouts is a problem.

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10-15-2003, 02:24 PM
  #12
momentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Does anyone think that Semenov earned a place in the top 6? This year he hasn't, at least not based on what I have read in the papers, and briefly seen. You are going to throw in a player who doesn't deserve it? What message does that send?
Do I think Semi deserves a spot in the top 6? Sure do. I mean... last season where he was arguably our 3rd best dman (and sometimes even better than Brewer on some nights...) He surely deserved his spot then. One subpar preseason does not equate to losing your job after being one of the key components of holding that defense together last year.

I believe 46 capable games in the REGULAR season proves he deserves it far more than a handful of preseason ones. I mean... honestly having a player that performed remarkably well sat down for a mediocre preseason. What kind of message does that send to the player?

If you want to punish him for having a poor camp... fine talk to him.. reduce his minutes. Don't punish the entire team by having him out of the lineup and sitting in the pressbox.

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10-15-2003, 02:39 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
Do I think Semi deserves a spot in the top 6? Sure do. I mean... last season where he was arguably our 3rd best dman (and sometimes even better than Brewer on some nights...) He surely deserved his spot then. One subpar preseason does not equate to losing your job after being one of the key components of holding that defense together last year.

I believe 46 capable games in the REGULAR season proves he deserves it far more than a handful of preseason ones. I mean... honestly having a player that performed remarkably well sat down for a mediocre preseason. What kind of message does that send to the player?

If you want to punish him for having a poor camp... fine talk to him.. reduce his minutes. Don't punish the entire team by having him out of the lineup and sitting in the pressbox.
He hasn't lost his job.

As for sitting a player because he has a mediocre camp, it sends the message that it isn't acceptable, that you need to come to camp ready to play. Aside from that, it wasn't a mediocre pre-season, it was a bad one. He did very little in terms of physical play, and that is something the Oilers desparately need from him.

If he isn't good enough in pre-season, he isn't good enough to start the season, because it isn't like he was improving through the pre-season, he probably actually got worse. Besides, sitting up in the PB isn't necessarily bad, you can sure learn alot from up there in terms of timing and positioning.

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10-15-2003, 02:55 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
if the defense are not capable of moving the puck with quick, crisp passes then the forwards are unable to gain momentum into the offensive zone. a solid, puck moving defense breeds offence. The powerplay is very dependent on the ability of the defensemen to make good dumps and smart passes that allow the forwards to gain the zone. Furthermore, they are integral in facilitating control and momentum with the man advantage.

just because it's a low scoring game doesn't mean the defensemen played well. it means the entire team contributed to a solid 2-way game. if the forwards don't back-check it doesn't matter how good your defensemen are you are still going to get blown out.


Couldn't agree more LawnDemon. When players reach this level it's little things that really make the difference. A pass right on the tape, extra hussle on the backcheck by a forward. Little things.

Its almost like the forwards are the reason the team is good defensively and the D is the reason the team plays well offensively.

.

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Old
10-15-2003, 03:00 PM
  #15
momentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
He hasn't lost his job.

As for sitting a player because he has a mediocre camp, it sends the message that it isn't acceptable, that you need to come to camp ready to play. Aside from that, it wasn't a mediocre pre-season, it was a bad one. He did very little in terms of physical play, and that is something the Oilers desparately need from him.

If he isn't good enough in pre-season, he isn't good enough to start the season, because it isn't like he was improving through the pre-season, he probably actually got worse. Besides, sitting up in the PB isn't necessarily bad, you can sure learn alot from up there in terms of timing and positioning.
He hasn't lost his job? It sure looks like it's on the backburners for the time being.

I know that you want to send a message for a player not having the best of camps. But Cross didn't necessarily have a great camp. Neither did Ryan Smyth for that matter as he was coasting for a fair bit. Should they be sat down as well? Wouldn't that also be fair?

Sure, they need him to be more physical. But do you sit a player just for that reason? I hardly believe so. It's not as if he was failing to do all the other things correctly like breaking up passes and staying in position.

Sitting in the pressbox may not be the end of things. However, when there is very little reason to do so.. you have to question the motive. I don't think you can convince me that Semenov had a bad enough camp to deserve sitting in the pressbox while Cross is playing 20 minutes a night on the top pairing.

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Old
10-15-2003, 03:18 PM
  #16
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All talk about Semenov not earning a top six job is a joke. Cross had JUST as bad of a training camp as what Semenov did - but because MacT is blinded by his hard on for Vets - he puts him on the first pairing. IMO Cross is the odd man out as Bergeron-Ferguson has been our best pairing so far. Smyth/Staios/Brewer are all locks to be in the lineup as well.

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10-15-2003, 04:21 PM
  #17
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Players need to step it up...

...The onus should not be falling on MacT all the time. Why haven't any players stepped up to provide a spark? Out of the past two dismal efforts, you cannot point to one player who showed any heart and stepped up with a big hit, a good rush, a great feed/scoring chance...nothing. To be fair, the breakout from our zone still has some serious problems (coaches either need to get the breakout system pounded into the players' heads, or else devise a proper, effective one in place). Teams just clog up the neutral zone and we're stuck with crappy dump ins to centre that get turned over quickly. That seemed to be the same problem we had last season too...The guys don't seem to be skating either i.e. moving their feet very much. Forecheck is ineffective when you aren't hustling. No one is HITTING. I mean...this is just sound, fundamental hockey. What's the problem with our guys?

It's disheartening to see us lose steam after a relatively decent first period against Calgary. What the hell happened, I don't know. I don't personally see this being MacT's fault alone, though. We were breaking out fine in the first. Some of the guys look like they've misplaced their hockey sense. I mean, standing behind two defenders, cheating high on the wall in their own defensive zone hoping a puck slips past the forecheckers? Get open! Don't even get me started on the offensive side of things...

MacT mixes the lines up hoping to spark something. It's obvious the chemistry has evaporated from the pre-season (again, I have no idea why). This will force Lowe's hand in terms of leverage in the MC situation, because I do not see him sitting there waiting until December/January to make something happen. The Oil need to show some heart against Buffalo.

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10-15-2003, 07:57 PM
  #18
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The I guess the 2 of you know more about coaching than Mac-T does.

You should go talk to Kevin, he may have a job for you.

And no, Semenov did not do the things like play positionaly sound, or break up passes. He was by far the worst defenseman in the pre-season (of the 7 that made it).

And it isn't like I don't like the guy. I mean he billeted with my aunt and uncle in Sudbury, and I have been a huge fan of his, but he simply didn't earn anything.

As for Smyth, he also has a broken finger, and there isn't anyone to really replace him.

Like, being completely realistic here, Cross is getting less ice time than both Brewer and Staois, while receiving a tiny bit more than Smith and Bergeron.

The Oilers have basically 5 guys playing 20 minutes per night, and I don't think you can argue that Strategy. I mean, Jason Smith has had injury troubles in the past couple of years, so you don't want to wear him down with 22+ minutes per night, so you can at least have him for the season. The only reason Cross gets more ice-time than Bergeron is because he plays on the PK.

The defensemen haven't been the problem this year... most of the goals scored against the Oilers have been because of a bad mistake by a forward.

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10-16-2003, 03:52 AM
  #19
momentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
The I guess the 2 of you know more about coaching than Mac-T does.
I knew this was coming. One of the biggest copouts in an argument... Spare me the drivel. This is about player personnel and not necessarily coaching strategies (though I'm not too enthused about some of those at the moment). Every coach has his biases and I'm sure everyone here knows that MacT loves to play his veterans whether they deserve it or not. He likes to go with what he knows and what's comfortable TO HIM. But hey, if we're following your example, then I suppose no one on here can relatively talk about anything. That's a good prospect.. Wait, no. You can't praise a player... you aren't a scout and obviously you're not qualified. You want to discuss trades? Sorry, you aren't a GM. Play on the ice? Sorry, you're not a player or a coach. As I said, spare me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
And no, Semenov did not do the things like play positionaly sound, or break up passes. He was by far the worst defenseman in the pre-season (of the 7 that made it).
And you would know? You've been to every camp and every preseason game.. and suddenly you know that Semi has been worse enough to be the 7th dman on this team. Funny. I can't seem to find anyone saying that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
As for Smyth, he also has a broken finger, and there isn't anyone to really replace him.
Um. The forward position is still relatively crowded if not bursting with experienced talent. If Smyth wasn't playing well, there is a lot more forwards to choose from than a dman. There isn't anyone to replace him? That just doesn't hold water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
The Oilers have basically 5 guys playing 20 minutes per night, and I don't think you can argue that Strategy. I mean, Jason Smith has had injury troubles in the past couple of years, so you don't want to wear him down with 22+ minutes per night, so you can at least have him for the season. The only reason Cross gets more ice-time than Bergeron is because he plays on the PK.
Nothing about this has to do with Jason Smith and the rigors of him playing 22 minutes a night. It's putting someone into the lineup who can be more effective. I think it's fairly easy to see that Brewer isn't playing as well as he can. And, some of that has to do with covering for Cross when he makes his untimely pinches and forays into the offensive zone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
The defensemen haven't been the problem this year... most of the goals scored against the Oilers have been because of a bad mistake by a forward.
Disagree. It's been both. As much as the forwards have been unreliable in the offensive zone and sometimes in the defensive zone, the glaring giveaways in our own zone by the dmen doesn't help the cause.

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10-16-2003, 06:42 AM
  #20
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game, set, and match for momentai.

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10-16-2003, 06:51 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
I knew this was coming. One of the biggest copouts in an argument... Spare me the drivel. This is about player personnel and not necessarily coaching strategies (though I'm not too enthused about some of those at the moment). Every coach has his biases and I'm sure everyone here knows that MacT loves to play his veterans whether they deserve it or not. He likes to go with what he knows and what's comfortable TO HIM. But hey, if we're following your example, then I suppose no one on here can relatively talk about anything. That's a good prospect.. Wait, no. You can't praise a player... you aren't a scout and obviously you're not qualified. You want to discuss trades? Sorry, you aren't a GM. Play on the ice? Sorry, you're not a player or a coach. As I said, spare me.
Yeah, because Mac-T has a whole bunch of veterans in his lineup. Have you ever stopped to consider this: There is a coach, 4 Assistants, and a GM (and an assistant GM too). Combined they make all the decisions (Mind you, the ultimate decision of who plays is up to Mac-T), but unless you see these players every day, you cannot comment on how Semenov would be a better fit. Maybe Charlie Huddy isn't impressed with Semenov and his work ethic, or doesn't think he is in game shape right now, or any number of things. These guys spend more time around the players than you do, and a probably a better judge of whether or not they are even remotely capable of helping the team out.

Quote:
And you would know? You've been to every camp and every preseason game.. and suddenly you know that Semi has been worse enough to be the 7th dman on this team. Funny. I can't seem to find anyone saying that.
I am just going by the reports on here, the sun, a couple of other boards, high-lites, etc... Not once did any of them say he had a good game in the pre-season. Most said that he was out of position alot, not playing the body, and taking bad penalties. And having watched him a lot in the OHL and AHL, he gets like this occasionally, and he isn't effective at all...

Quote:
Um. The forward position is still relatively crowded if not bursting with experienced talent. If Smyth wasn't playing well, there is a lot more forwards to choose from than a dman. There isn't anyone to replace him? That just doesn't hold water.
There isn't anyone to replace him. Even with a broken finger, he is one of the Oilers best players. There maybe a crowd at forwards, but you are kidding yourself if you think any of it can play on the top 2 lines (right now).

Quote:
Nothing about this has to do with Jason Smith and the rigors of him playing 22 minutes a night. It's putting someone into the lineup who can be more effective. I think it's fairly easy to see that Brewer isn't playing as well as he can. And, some of that has to do with covering for Cross when he makes his untimely pinches and forays into the offensive zone.
So then what was Brewer's excuse last year then? Untimely pinches... like when your team is down 2-0 and your team has a total of 8 shots on net? I think times like that call for a little desperation, but hey, that's just me. Yes, when Semenov is playing well he is far more effective than Cross... but when he isn't playing well, he really gets down on himself, and the Oilers don't need that.

Quote:
Disagree. It's been both. As much as the forwards have been unreliable in the offensive zone and sometimes in the defensive zone, the glaring giveaways in our own zone by the dmen doesn't help the cause.
The giveaways haven't been nearly as costly as some of the lack of hustle shown by the offense in terms of backchecking. The problem isn't on defense, it is on offense. If you hold the opposition to 6 goals in 3 games, you have to be better than 1-2, there aren't any exceptions to this.

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Old
10-16-2003, 06:56 AM
  #22
thome_26
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Thank you Momentai - I would have posted something similar if you had not beat me to it. Exactly what I was thinking. I mean it's obvious that NONE of us (maybe Guy?) where are all the preseason games and all the practises and work outs to say for SURE that so and so was better then him or not. But I'm just giving my opinion - I watched three of the preseason games and I was at all of the scrimages (except the final one at skyreach) - so thats where my opinion comes from.

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10-16-2003, 07:01 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Yeah, because Mac-T has a whole bunch of veterans in his lineup. Have you ever stopped to consider this: There is a coach, 4 Assistants, and a GM (and an assistant GM too). Combined they make all the decisions (Mind you, the ultimate decision of who plays is up to Mac-T), but unless you see these players every day, you cannot comment on how Semenov would be a better fit. Maybe Charlie Huddy isn't impressed with Semenov and his work ethic, or doesn't think he is in game shape right now, or any number of things. These guys spend more time around the players than you do, and a probably a better judge of whether or not they are even remotely capable of helping the team out.



I am just going by the reports on here, the sun, a couple of other boards, high-lites, etc... Not once did any of them say he had a good game in the pre-season. Most said that he was out of position alot, not playing the body, and taking bad penalties. And having watched him a lot in the OHL and AHL, he gets like this occasionally, and he isn't effective at all...



There isn't anyone to replace him. Even with a broken finger, he is one of the Oilers best players. There maybe a crowd at forwards, but you are kidding yourself if you think any of it can play on the top 2 lines (right now).



So then what was Brewer's excuse last year then? Untimely pinches... like when your team is down 2-0 and your team has a total of 8 shots on net? I think times like that call for a little desperation, but hey, that's just me. Yes, when Semenov is playing well he is far more effective than Cross... but when he isn't playing well, he really gets down on himself, and the Oilers don't need that.



The giveaways haven't been nearly as costly as some of the lack of hustle shown by the offense in terms of backchecking. The problem isn't on defense, it is on offense. If you hold the opposition to 6 goals in 3 games, you have to be better than 1-2, there aren't any exceptions to this.
The whole problem has been the forwards getting the puck with speed in the nuetral zone so they can enter the offensive zone with speed. Now the fault of that is one BOTH the Dmen and the forwards. The blueline isn't making good outlet passes with any regularity - and when they do, the forwards seem to lose the puck or make a second pass o another forwards feet. I think the BIGGEST problem so far is that the Oilers can't pass the puck in the neutral zone! They put SO many pucks in their targets feet or even behind them it makes me wonder if they should line up at opposite ends of the ice and pass the puck back and forth and back and forth and so on......

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10-16-2003, 09:46 AM
  #24
momentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
Yeah, because Mac-T has a whole bunch of veterans in his lineup. Have you ever stopped to consider this: There is a coach, 4 Assistants, and a GM (and an assistant GM too). Combined they make all the decisions (Mind you, the ultimate decision of who plays is up to Mac-T), but unless you see these players every day, you cannot comment on how Semenov would be a better fit.
You said it yourself. We don't know how well Semi has been playing in scrimmages and practices. But we DO KNOW how our defense has been playing in the past 3 games and it is not altogether impressive.

You, of course, are assuming that coaches and GMs are perfect and see eye-to-eye in every subject. Until they all come out and say Semi hasn't been good enough to get into the lineup, I don't see how you could claim they are all on the same wavelength here. I don't see how the coaches could know necessarily know if Semi was a better fit or not either frankly. It's tough to judge how he'd react to in-game situations when he hasn't been in any to speak of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I am just going by the reports on here, the sun, a couple of other boards, high-lites, etc... Not once did any of them say he had a good game in the pre-season.
And not once did they say he was absolutely horrible either. From all the reports I've seen, he hasn't been mentioned much at all. Again, tell me how you can gather any type of respectable opinion on a defensive player from highlights where the majority of them cover goals scored in preseason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
There isn't anyone to replace him. Even with a broken finger, he is one of the Oilers best players. There maybe a crowd at forwards, but you are kidding yourself if you think any of it can play on the top 2 lines (right now).
There we go. Just what I wanted you to say. So Ryan Smyth can play because he is one of the Oilers' best players. And Semenov cannot because he showed last year that he was one of the Oilers' best defenseman. I smell double standard here. Big time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
So then what was Brewer's excuse last year then? Untimely pinches... like when your team is down 2-0 and your team has a total of 8 shots on net? I think times like that call for a little desperation, but hey, that's just me. Yes, when Semenov is playing well he is far more effective than Cross... but when he isn't playing well, he really gets down on himself, and the Oilers don't need that.
I never said Brewer had played exceptional last year. However, last year he was more able to make offensive plays with Semenov as his partner. Now I see Cross making those same forays and it's limiting Brewer's opportunities. I don't know about you.. But if I had the choice, I'd choose Brewer creating some chances with Semi covering rather than Cross doing the same with Brewer covering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
The giveaways haven't been nearly as costly as some of the lack of hustle shown by the offense in terms of backchecking. The problem isn't on defense, it is on offense. If you hold the opposition to 6 goals in 3 games, you have to be better than 1-2, there aren't any exceptions to this.
They haven't been costly because the other players haven't scored. Cross made two bad giveaways in Calgary. One ended up in our net and the other went right off the post. Nothing the forwards could do to stop those.

Whether or not those giveaways hurt more or less than the forwards backchecking is irrelevant. We don't want either of those to happen. Making those giveaways leads to the defense scrambling in their own zone and a loss of momentum. I'd say that it's significant either way.

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10-16-2003, 10:02 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
You said it yourself. We don't know how well Semi has been playing in scrimmages and practices. But we DO KNOW how our defense has been playing in the past 3 games and it is not altogether impressive.

You, of course, are assuming that coaches and GMs are perfect and see eye-to-eye in every subject. Until they all come out and say Semi hasn't been good enough to get into the lineup, I don't see how you could claim they are all on the same wavelength here. I don't see how the coaches could know necessarily know if Semi was a better fit or not either frankly. It's tough to judge how he'd react to in-game situations when he hasn't been in any to speak of.
I'm sorry, Momentai, but if a player isn't doing the right things in practice, chances are he won't be doing them in the games either. This of course is an assumption, but so is yours seeing as neither of us know for sure.

Quote:
And not once did they say he was absolutely horrible either. From all the reports I've seen, he hasn't been mentioned much at all. Again, tell me how you can gather any type of respectable opinion on a defensive player from highlights where the majority of them cover goals scored in preseason?
You also completely left out the point I made about him having the same kind of occurances in the AHL and OHL... that was a main factor to my argument. Anyone who has followed Semenov at all has seen when he gets into this rut, and he isn't very good. No, they didn't say he was horrible, but when you are out on the ice against AHLer's and looking bad, you are going to look worse against the real players.

Quote:
There we go. Just what I wanted you to say. So Ryan Smyth can play because he is one of the Oilers' best players. And Semenov cannot because he showed last year that he was one of the Oilers' best defenseman. I smell double standard here. Big time.
Let's put it this way... Cross is a lot closer to Semenov in terms of what they bring than anyone else on the Oilers is to Smyth (especially when you talk about guys like Rita, Salmo, etc...). Smyth is also learning a new position, but that isn't really what I argued before.

Quote:
I never said Brewer had played exceptional last year. However, last year he was more able to make offensive plays with Semenov as his partner. Now I see Cross making those same forays and it's limiting Brewer's opportunities. I don't know about you.. But if I had the choice, I'd choose Brewer creating some chances with Semi covering rather than Cross doing the same with Brewer covering.
Once again, that is leaving the assumption that Semenov is even remotely close to being able to be effective. Granted, I would love it if the Semenov from last year was in the lineup, but I am not sure we have that right now.

Quote:
They haven't been costly because the other players haven't scored. Cross made two bad giveaways in Calgary. One ended up in our net and the other went right off the post. Nothing the forwards could do to stop those.

Whether or not those giveaways hurt more or less than the forwards backchecking is irrelevant. We don't want either of those to happen. Making those giveaways leads to the defense scrambling in their own zone and a loss of momentum. I'd say that it's significant either way.
Well let's also talk about Ryan Smyth not noticing Staois get knocked down on the 1-0 goal for vancouver. Or Mike York failing to get back, or even Horcoff getting beat by Jiri Slegr of all people for the 3-0 goal.

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