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NHLPA appeals Wideman suspension (UPD: Suspension reduced)

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Old
02-06-2016, 01:23 AM
  #26
Ugmo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrefinedMcCrude View Post
why would someone swing a stick at another player's head?
why would a player try throwing the puck into the net with his hands?
why would a player not make sure the treatment he is using to recover from injury isn't banned by the drug policy?

all things that carry a warped logic, yet have all happened?

an action being stupid doesn't prevent it from happening/ people do illogical things all the time.
All those things (except maybe the first) are things they think they can get away with. No player thinks he can cross-check a linesman without it being seen.

I watched it again and it sure looks intentional, but it defies logic. I think he was dinged and wobbly and mistook the linesman for an opposing player (which also doesn't make it right, but at least seems more logical).

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Old
02-06-2016, 09:35 AM
  #27
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02-07-2016, 06:43 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
All those things (except maybe the first) are things they think they can get away with. No player thinks he can cross-check a linesman without it being seen.

I watched it again and it sure looks intentional, but it defies logic. I think he was dinged and wobbly and mistook the linesman for an opposing player (which also doesn't make it right, but at least seems more logical).
unless he claims afterward he didn't know what he was doing.

Anyway I do believe he was shaken up now the problem is can being shaken up, excuse a person from all responsibility for their actions?

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Old
02-08-2016, 07:29 PM
  #29
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If the process reduces the suspension to less than 20 then the refs union should be furious.

I don't think bettman wants to upset another union. I think he'll protect the officials and keep it at 20 games.

The player and the union should know the rules that you do not ever go after the official like that. Didn't the union agree to these punishments 10 games no intent of injury for hitting a ref, 20 games with the intent to injury the official?


Last edited by gstommylee: 02-08-2016 at 07:37 PM.
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Old
02-08-2016, 08:09 PM
  #30
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http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...-set-1.3438425
Appeal hearing Wednesday (2/10)

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Old
02-09-2016, 01:40 PM
  #31
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Nor should he, this is the one time where everyone is agreeing that Bettman got it right *checks Mayan Calendar*

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02-09-2016, 09:47 PM
  #32
LadyStanley
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/3...scoring-surge/

Friedman speculates
Quote:
Wideman’s appeal to Commissioner Gary Bettman is Wednesday. The last two times Bettman’s been through this with regards to officials, he lowered them.

Daniel Carcillo’s 10-gamer for elbowing linesman Scott Driscoll in the 2014 playoffs dropped to six. In 2008, he halved a Michael Peca punishment for grabbing referee Greg Kimmerly in the arm to five games. There is some serious doubt, though, he will decrease Wideman’s 20-game ban. That could take us to our first neutral arbitrator appeal under the new CBA, and everyone is expecting it.

Patrick Kaleta and Shawn Thornton had previous opportunities to do so, but declined. The wording indicates an arbitrator can only overturn if the length of the suspension imposed is not supported by “substantial evidence.” The NHLPA was not willing to challenge that in either player’s case, but there is a wrinkle here.

In previous suspensions involving an official, there was either a clear beef between the two men, or someone got in the way of a punch intended for another player. This is neither.
(And any suspension/fine for Wideman not leaving bench for suspected concussion observer identified won't be determined until this disciplinary action is decided.)

Hmmmm.

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02-10-2016, 09:51 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/3...scoring-surge/

Friedman speculates


(And any suspension/fine for Wideman not leaving bench for suspected concussion observer identified won't be determined until this disciplinary action is decided.)

Hmmmm.
The concussion issue puts the Flames in an interesting position. They clearly want to defend themselves against having left Wideman in the game after a spotter contacted the bench about it, however doing so is basically saying that the league should punish Wideman fully.

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Old
02-10-2016, 05:23 PM
  #34
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Old
02-10-2016, 06:11 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
#NoStoneUnturned


... will Gary even remember the hearing in a few days time LS?

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Old
02-11-2016, 09:52 AM
  #36
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Even if he did have a concussion - which seems pretty convenient now - that does not absolve him from his actions. He did not state that he blacked out or did not remember cross checking the linesman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
All those things (except maybe the first) are things they think they can get away with. No player thinks he can cross-check a linesman without it being seen.

I watched it again and it sure looks intentional, but it defies logic. I think he was dinged and wobbly and mistook the linesman for an opposing player (which also doesn't make it right, but at least seems more logical).
As you watch it, he avoids certain people on the ice from both teams, this he is at least aware of others on the ice. It can also be construed because of that that he knew the difference between between his teammates and the opposing player and at a minimum between those wearing full player gear and those not wearing full player gear.

Question is who does Bettman want to placate - officials or players?


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... will Gary even remember the hearing in a few days time LS?
Good one Killian!

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Old
02-11-2016, 10:47 AM
  #37
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As you watch it, he avoids certain people on the ice from both teams, this he is at least aware of others on the ice. It can also be construed because of that that he knew the difference between between his teammates and the opposing player and at a minimum between those wearing full player gear and those not wearing full player gear.

Question is who does Bettman want to placate - officials or players?
Just cause he was aware of others on the ice doesn't mean he was all there. I've seen video of concussed football players who go into the wrong huddle. They're aware of what they're supposed to be doing but are still so out of it they go to the wrong team.


But it will be interesting when this goes to an arbitrator. See what it ultimately comes to.

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Old
02-17-2016, 10:25 AM
  #38
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Old
02-17-2016, 04:04 PM
  #39
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I would actually be shocked if it was reduced.

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02-17-2016, 04:17 PM
  #40
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I wouldn't be surprised if it's reduced by 2-3 games. Makes it more likely the suspension would be upheld by the arbitrator if the NHL shows some level of review and adknowledgement that Wideman has had a relatively clean career until this.

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02-17-2016, 04:19 PM
  #41
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Per an NHL app alert, it wasn't reduced

Also: https://www.nhl.com/news/wideman-sus...ld/c-278917928

Quote:
NEW YORK -- Commissioner Gary Bettman today upheld the 20-game suspension that was assessed to Calgary Flames defenseman Dennis Wideman for conduct violative of Rule 40 (Physical Abuse of Officials) during NHL Game No. 742 in Calgary on Wednesday, Jan. 27.

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Old
02-17-2016, 04:25 PM
  #42
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Sat Radio commented that reducing would

1) undermine employees he selected to make those judgements
2) undermine relationship with officials' union

So, no surprise of no reduction.

Next question: Will Wideman and NHLPA appeal (to neutral arbitrator)?

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Old
02-18-2016, 12:43 AM
  #43
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Old
02-18-2016, 02:18 AM
  #44
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just goes to show what kind of a moron he is for sending damning texts like that. and based on all the evidence that we have, I think I find it likely the neutral arbitrator will side with the League on this one.

Which is good, if for no other reason, that I will enjoy and look forward to another Brian Burke rant

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Old
02-18-2016, 07:54 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
just goes to show what kind of a moron he is for sending damning texts like that. and based on all the evidence that we have, I think I find it likely the neutral arbitrator will side with the League on this one.

Which is good, if for no other reason, that I will enjoy and look forward to another Brian Burke rant
yeah, and his teammate Joe Colborne's reaction's is even more moronic ... (as shown on http://www.tsn.ca/bettman-upholds-wi...nsion-1.439445 ) "it's a learning experience for all of us players and something we are going to have to be cognizant of in the future. i guess you cant be texting your teammates too much anymore."

um, no, joe, that's not the lesson to be learned here ...

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Old
02-18-2016, 08:03 AM
  #46
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yeah, and his teammate Joe Colborne's reaction's is even more moronic ... (as shown on http://www.tsn.ca/bettman-upholds-wi...nsion-1.439445 ) "it's a learning experience for all of us players and something we are going to have to be cognizant of in the future. i guess you cant be texting your teammates too much anymore."

um, no, joe, that's not the lesson to be learned here ...
What a stupid thing to say.

The lesson here is keep your bloody mouth shut during a suspension process. You can text your teammates all you want, just shut up when it comes to the process.

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02-18-2016, 08:36 AM
  #47
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For those who may have missed it in my link above, here is the full PDF of Bettman's decision.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/pdf...eman-Order.PDF

Certainly some interesting pieces

Quote:
As an initial matter, I accept the Union's proffer of Dr. Comper as an expert in clinical neuropsychology and "the effect on patients of concussions from a neuropsychological perspective. " (Tr. 108, Exh. 18) I also accept the Union's proffer of Dr. Kutcher as an expert in the cause, symptoms and effects of concussions. (Tr. 188, Exh. 20) However, while I acknowledge their expertise as clinicians, I am mindful that neither of them diagnosed or treated Mr. Wideman. Rather, they were retained as consultants and asked by the NHLPA to interview Mr. Wideman several days after the incident (and after his symptoms had resolved) for purposes of the supplementary discipline proceeding.
Quote:
Neither the NHLPA nor its expert witnesses presented (or even sought) any corroboration for the contention that Mr. Wideman's seemingly intentional actions were in fact the product of a "confused" state. As noted above, Drs. Comper and Kutcher both simply took what Mr. Wideman told them at face value. They could have, but did not, seek to corroborate his statements by speaking with the Club's medical trainer, who was not consulted by either Dr. Comper or Dr. Kutcher or asked by the NHLPA to testify at the hearing about Mr. Wideman's supposed "confusional state. " '
Quote:
On the other hand, I have the authority to impose a more substantial suspension, and I am troubled by Mr. Wideman's total failure to accept any responsibility for his actions. Indeed, although he made much at the hearing about the apologies he had already made to Mr. Henderson, the sincerity of those apologies rings somewhat hollow given the text message he sent to a teammate on February 2— after the conclusion of the hearing before Mr. Campbell — that "[t]he only problem and the only reason I'm here is cause the stupid refs and stupid media. "

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Old
02-18-2016, 09:12 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Sat Radio commented that reducing would

1) undermine employees he selected to make those judgements
2) undermine relationship with officials' union

So, no surprise of no reduction.

Next question: Will Wideman and NHLPA appeal (to neutral arbitrator)?
To point (1), Bettman has lowered suspensions in the past, so not sure how that point can apply. And to point 2, going back a number of years now Bettman has also lowered a suspension that involved an official in 2001 to Rob Ray. Originally 10 games, Bettman lowered it to 7




I'm not sure I agree with Bettman's sentiment's in regards to the text. If he had texted admitting he purposefully hit the linesman that would be one thing, but the fact his texts blamed the media for hyping it up, lends credence to that in his mind it wasn't a purposeful act.

And how did the league even gain access to the texts? The government on one hand is fighting with Apple to gain access to a terrorists phone, but the NHL can access Wideman's texts no issue for a suspension hearing?


Last edited by cheswick: 02-18-2016 at 09:17 AM.
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Old
02-18-2016, 09:25 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
I'm not sure I agree with Bettman's sentiment's in regards to the text. If he had texted admitting he purposefully hit the linesman that would be one thing, but the fact his texts blamed the media for hyping it up, lends credence to that in his mind it wasn't a purposeful act.
The text wasn't used as part of the decision (at least according to the document), it was only used as evidence that Bettman doesn't buy Wideman being super remorseful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
And how did the league even gain access to the texts? The government on one hand is fighting with Apple to gain access to a terrorists phone, but the NHL can access Wideman's texts no issue for a suspension hearing?
Wideman turned them over himself as part of the discovery process.

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Old
02-18-2016, 02:08 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
just goes to show what kind of a moron he is for sending damning texts like that. and based on all the evidence that we have, I think I find it likely the neutral arbitrator will side with the League on this one.

Which is good, if for no other reason, that I will enjoy and look forward to another Brian Burke rant
But those texts are clearly the result of him being concussed.

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