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NHLPA appeals Wideman suspension (UPD: Suspension reduced)

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Old
02-18-2016, 04:40 PM
  #51
Tinalera
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I'm just wondering how the officials union will react if the neutral reduces the suspension significantly. Bettman can honestly say "it wasn't me", but I have to wonder if the officials stage a one game "call everything/call absolutely nothing protest".

Have to think that going forward Wideman probably will not get any benefits of any calls in future if it's reduced

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02-18-2016, 04:55 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
To point (1), Bettman has lowered suspensions in the past, so not sure how that point can apply. And to point 2, going back a number of years now Bettman has also lowered a suspension that involved an official in 2001 to Rob Ray. Originally 10 games, Bettman lowered it to 7


I'm not sure I agree with Bettman's sentiment's in regards to the text. If he had texted admitting he purposefully hit the linesman that would be one thing, but the fact his texts blamed the media for hyping it up, lends credence to that in his mind it wasn't a purposeful act.

And how did the league even gain access to the texts? The government on one hand is fighting with Apple to gain access to a terrorists phone, but the NHL can access Wideman's texts no issue for a suspension hearing?
Text shows Wideman blamed the refs and the media for his being in the hearing, not that he hit an official.


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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
I'm just wondering how the officials union will react if the neutral reduces the suspension significantly. Bettman can honestly say "it wasn't me", but I have to wonder if the officials stage a one game "call everything/call absolutely nothing protest".

Have to think that going forward Wideman probably will not get any benefits of any calls in future if it's reduced
I would love to see them call every little thing one week and then nothing the next week.

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02-18-2016, 05:12 PM
  #53
Tinalera
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Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
Text shows Wideman blamed the refs and the media for his being in the hearing, not that he hit an official.




I would love to see them call every little thing one week and then nothing the next week.
"What's that? Your stick blade lightly tapped that skater's heel while chasing him? 2 min for slashing. And you, I saw you put your hand on that opposing players shoulder-two min for holding."

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Old
02-19-2016, 09:17 AM
  #54
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Quote:
So when Calgary’s Dennis Wideman received a 20-game suspension for cross-checking linesman Don Henderson in a Jan. 27 game — a suspension that commissioner Gary Bettman upheld on Wednesday, but which could be appealed to a neutral arbitrator — Fraser was pleased with the sentence.

It is not that Wideman is a dirty player or even purposefully meant to hit Henderson. It is that the NHL stood by its officials, who should always be off-limits regardless of the circumstances.

“It’s true, Dennis Wideman is not the type of player that is abusive towards officials. That’s my experience of him,” said Fraser. “But players make mistakes. Everybody does. This shows strong support for the officials.”

Not that the league had much choice in the matter. Had Bettman softened the sentence, Fraser is confident officials would have punished Wideman, the Flames and the league in another way.
Hmmm. Penalizing the team (e.g., not calling penalties for them) instead? Would/could have really infuriated Flames/Burke.

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02-19-2016, 10:23 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Hockey/NH...slam!%20hockey



Hmmm. Penalizing the team (e.g., not calling penalties for them) instead? Would/could have really infuriated Flames/Burke.
So is Fraser admitting that the refs purposely go out and NOT do their job because they don't like a decision? If there is even the slightest possibility of this happening (to any team) then the league had better be monitoring every game moving forward and punishing the officials, such as firing them for incompetence.

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02-19-2016, 11:30 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
I would love to see them call every little thing one week and then nothing the next week.
You talk as if this doesn't already happen.

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02-19-2016, 02:44 PM
  #57
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Even if it was an accident, i'm still okay with the suspension. Mistakes have consequences. Don't abuse an official in such a violent manner. End of discussion.

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02-19-2016, 07:08 PM
  #58
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/n...al-arbitrator/

NHLPA statement on appeal to neutral arbitrator
Quote:
“We are extremely disappointed but not surprised that Gary Bettman upheld the decision of his staff to suspend Dennis Wideman for 20 games,” the NHLPA statement read. “This decision completely ignores the effects of the concussion that Dennis sustained when he was driven into the boards eight seconds before colliding with the linesman. We will appeal to the Neutral Discipline Arbitrator in order to have this decision overturned.”
#ForPosterity

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02-19-2016, 11:26 PM
  #59
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/d...text-messages/

Some explanation on the hows/whys the text messages, etc., were included in the appeal discovery phase.

Quote:
The rules change when you move from a regular hearing to an appeal. The relevant section of the CBA is Section 18.12. It reads: “The Commissioner shall have the authority to consider any evidence relating to the incident even if such evidence was not available at the time of the initial Supplementary Discipline for On-Ice Conduct decision.”

Earlier Wednesday, I used the word subpoena. Two sources said there was (“Do you think Wideman willingly gave up his phone?” one said), with another disputing it. A lawyer set me straight, saying the rules are analogous to, but technically not, a subpoena. A subpoena is an instrument of the judiciary, which this is not.

But, here’s what it comes down to: Because this is an arbitration hearing — basically a private court — neither side can say no to this kind of a request. As long as the information isn’t privileged (such as talking to your lawyer or wife), both sides have to provide written communications from witnesses.
...
Here’s what’s not spelled out: the penalty. By far the biggest question asked was, “Why did they give their phones?”

Here is a better question — what is the punishment if they don’t?

As I write this, no one has given me a straight answer, with one exception: the penalty for avoiding it can be severe. Wideman may be a Canadian playing in Canada, but this is based in the U.S. under American Labour Law. Because the CBA “allows the commissioner to consider any evidence,” it opens the door for serious problems if people refuse. At the very least, the NHL or NHLPA could be accused of unfair labour practices. That’s not a small problem.
Wow, what a can of worms has been opened.

(And eye opener to remind the players, and league and officials, that in a situation like this EVERYONE involved in the incident may be subject to an in depth probe of "personal" electronics and social media.)

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Old
02-19-2016, 11:45 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/d...text-messages/

Some explanation on the hows/whys the text messages, etc., were included in the appeal discovery phase.



Wow, what a can of worms has been opened.

(And eye opener to remind the players, and league and officials, that in a situation like this EVERYONE involved in the incident may be subject to an in depth probe of "personal" electronics and social media.)
No, it's not a can of worms. This has been common in sports arbitration cases for years now.
Quote:
But, here’s what it comes down to: Because this is an arbitration hearing — basically a private court — neither side can say no to this kind of a request. As long as the information isn’t privileged (such as talking to your lawyer or wife), both sides have to provide written communications from witnesses.
Either side can say no. If the parties can't agree over some particular discovery request then they take it to the arbitrator to make a decision. And before anyone says "Bettman can do whatever he wants in granting discovery" keep in mind one of the key reasons that Roger Goodell was crucified by a federal judge over the Brady deflategate fiasco involved Goodell's mishandling of discovery requests by the NFL PA.

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Old
02-20-2016, 04:02 PM
  #61
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I read somewhere that Don Henderson's injury/concussion is potentially career ending. He may never ref again.

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02-20-2016, 04:17 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by calgaryflames View Post
I read somewhere that Don Henderson's injury/concussion is potentially career ending. He may never ref again.
All concussions are potentially career ending. That is just the nature of the injury and how your body reacts to it.

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02-20-2016, 05:51 PM
  #63
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I read somewhere that Don Henderson's injury/concussion is potentially career ending. He may never ref again.
If i was him, i would get a lawyer and go after the player if he had career ending injury.

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02-20-2016, 05:53 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/n...al-arbitrator/

NHLPA statement on appeal to neutral arbitrator


#ForPosterity
What a stupid claim. so he should not be punished cause he had a concussion. he didn't look confused to me when he intentionally shoved the ref like that.

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02-20-2016, 11:46 PM
  #65
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Even if it was an accident, i'm still okay with the suspension. Mistakes have consequences. Don't abuse an official in such a violent manner. End of discussion.
The book was kind of thrown at him to make sure it prevents other players from trying something like that.

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02-22-2016, 08:24 AM
  #66
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do we know upon what basis the arbitrator will be expected to rule? is it strictly on what is written in the CBA? on his interpretation of the actual hit and/or wideman's "intention"? is he allowed to take into consideration the problematic text sent by Wideman after his hearing?

and what will his actual ruling be: just on the # of games Wideman is to be suspended? or perhaps more wide reaching - on the all player/official contact should be dealt with in the future?

is he restricted in his task or is it all completely open and he can look at and say whatever he wants?

thanks.

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02-22-2016, 08:28 AM
  #67
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CBA, comparison with previous suspensions (for official abuse), his interpretation of hit, injuries to linesman, all the texts, etc.

He'll either uphold the 20 game suspension, reduce it, or expand it.

He can look at anything related to the situation, including further emails, texts, etc., made since first appeal.

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02-22-2016, 09:22 AM
  #68
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The book was kind of thrown at him to make sure it prevents other players from trying something like that.
He was given the minimum number of games that the book spelled out for a collision of the magnitude that occurred. Hardly book throwing material.

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02-22-2016, 11:06 AM
  #69
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... will Gary even remember the hearing in a few days time LS?
you are Killian me with that one.

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02-22-2016, 11:45 PM
  #70
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02-23-2016, 12:00 AM
  #71
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I would love for the arbiter to rule that the suspension isn't enough and extend it even further, especially if the injury to the linesman appears to be career-ending. Give him the Bertuzzi treatment.

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02-23-2016, 05:26 AM
  #72
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I would love for the arbiter to rule that the suspension isn't enough and extend it even further, especially if the injury to the linesman appears to be career-ending. Give him the Bertuzzi treatment.
i find the bertuzzi example interesting. in december 2014, the OHL Guelph Storm team invited bertuzzi to join the team for practice and to meet local kids. the kids enjoyed meeting a real NHL player, and his nephew Tyler was a Storm player (later drafted by the Red Wings) and it became a local, feel good story in the paper.

i was embarrassed and ashamed and so too were many others who could not help but see bertuzzi as anything other than the shameful bully who ended another player's career. bertuzzi is not a hero, he's a thug.

in some small way, this is the sort of thing on the line here - the integrity of the game itself. certainly, wideman is not the thug that bertuzzi is ... but he did something wrong, very wrong, and he has to be punished, if only to set an example for those kids. to lessen his punishment is to excuse his behaviour and it sends the wrong message, just like the embarrassing celebration of bertuzzi with the Storm.

bad behaviour needs to be punished, not excused ... or god forbid, celebrated.

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02-24-2016, 07:47 AM
  #73
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02-25-2016, 12:14 AM
  #74
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/3...-deadline-day/

Friedman with some details of the appeal to the neutral arbitrator
Quote:
Both he NHL and the NHLPA have the opportunity to present new evidence and new witnesses, and both sides have been building to this point. So far, the NHL has rejected one of the union’s key strategies, that Wideman’s injury meant he didn’t deserve any suspension at all. (The league has made it very clear it does not believe this was a concussion.)

It will be interesting to see if the NHLPA continues in this vein. The way the CBA is written, if the arbitrator agrees the commissioner had “substantial evidence” to hand down a 20-game suspension, Gary Bettman’s ruling won’t be overturned. One lawyer said he would argue for a lower suspension, maybe 10 games, than zero. It might be easier to argue for a lesser punishment than none at all, and Wideman might get some money back. We’ll see if that’s what they try.

Remember, the NHLPA decides on appeals more than the individual player does. It’s their call on whether or not they can win, and have been eager to challenge this ruling from the beginning. We’re also going to see if anyone else is the owner of potentially embarrassing text messages.

The league and players also need to shorten the hearing and appeals process. It’s ridiculous.
Agree with the appeals process - very time consuming (and stretching things on "forever").

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02-25-2016, 08:59 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/3...-deadline-day/

Friedman with some details of the appeal to the neutral arbitrator


Agree with the appeals process - very time consuming (and stretching things on "forever").
The length of time is absolutely ridiculous. It's been a month since the incident. Considering suspensions of 6 games or longer can be taken as high as the arbitrator a player could have sat out the suspension, and been playing for many games before his appeals are concluded. If they're going to take that long, allow them to play while the appeal process takes place like they do in soccer and baseball.

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