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Time for some much deserved criticism to Renney

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Old
12-21-2005, 01:06 PM
  #26
Eb0la11
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More criticism from me... He never starts lundqvist when crap *** weekes is healthy and it costs the rags wins.

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12-21-2005, 01:10 PM
  #27
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Weekes has given up...

4 goals in the last two games - one was a penalty shot goal, and one was off a freak deflection caused by the Rangers defenders. It's not Weekes' fault that this team has scored two goals in two games. I personally would've started Lundqvist yesterday for certain reasons, but I cannot say that Weekes played poorly in the last two games.

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12-21-2005, 01:10 PM
  #28
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Anybody think that it's about time to see what Tyutin can do with some PwP time? He hardly seems to be out there when we have an extra man.

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12-21-2005, 01:49 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue
I agree this team has been playing very undisciplined, but let's be serious folks, these are all very soft, weak, BS penalty calls. Back in the day, none of this crap would be called.
They're being called now, aren't they? Some teams have adapted and some have not. It's high time to join those that have.
And do you really think that all 11 penalties last night would not have been called in the past?

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12-21-2005, 01:51 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
They're being called now, aren't they? Some teams have adapted and some have not. It's high time to join those that have.
And do you really think that all 11 penalties last night would not have been called in the past?
There were 19 penalties, I don't think 12 of them would have been called

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12-21-2005, 01:51 PM
  #31
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eco's...

I'm thinking Rozsival and Poti on one PP; Tyutin and Kondratiev, oops, he doesn't play anymore...Kaspar? on the second unit. Rozsival because he's a right handed shot. Poti because he's actually shown to be the better of the group at keeping the puck in and is starting to find the general vicinity of the net. And I agree on Tyutin. He may be struggling defensively here and there, but he's 22 and that's to be expected (And this is coming from a guy who's never been a huge fan of Tyutin).

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12-21-2005, 01:55 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue
There were 19 penalties, I don't think 12 of them would have been called
We are not talking about the 19 total. We are only talking about the 11 the Rangers took. I have a hard time believing that no matter what standard you apply, they still would have taken at least 6 or 7. And that is far too many, no matter which way you slice it.

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12-21-2005, 01:58 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
We are not talking about the 19 total. We are only talking about the 11 the Rangers took. I have a hard time believing that no matter what standard you apply, they still would have taken at least 6 or 7. And that is far too many, no matter which way you slice it.
Ehh, they wouldn't have called the hooks, there were 7. Hollweg's was trash, thats 7. 4 would have been called

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12-21-2005, 02:32 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
4 goals in the last two games - one was a penalty shot goal, and one was off a freak deflection caused by the Rangers defenders. It's not Weekes' fault that this team has scored two goals in two games. I personally would've started Lundqvist yesterday for certain reasons, but I cannot say that Weekes played poorly in the last two games.
Exactly. I don't know what Lundquist would have done differently...they're both play very well only giving up an average of about 2 goals game. Can't expect a Shutout every game. And that's exactly what it would have taken to get wins against the Avs and Devs.

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12-21-2005, 02:46 PM
  #35
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i'll echo the words of Jagr from last nights game...

"I'm worried about scoring goals. I'm not worried about anything else."

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12-21-2005, 03:01 PM
  #36
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About the penalties

Sorry but as painful as it was I rewatched much of the game. Some observations on the penalties that were called.

We deserved most of the penalties that were called against us. Nylanders, in particular, were extremely lazy penalties that need to be called. When is Nylander going to learn that after someone strips him of the puck, if he hooks that guy, its going to get called. He's done it too many times this season and the refs are looking for it.

The Devils, for the most part, didn't use their sticks nearly as much as the Rangers did. Again, refs are looking for it and its going to get called. A guy like Nylander whose done it all season isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt in a call like that. Just the way it is.

Also, the Devils were skating and driving to the net all night long, but especially in the 3rd period. As a player if you keep your legs moving and your stick on the ice chances are pretty good you won't get too many calls against you. I blame this one on the players and on the coaching staff. Until we play a more disciplined game we are going to be on the short end of the rope when it comes to getting calls.

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Old
12-21-2005, 03:32 PM
  #37
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Anyone notice that our most successful and dangerous powerplay last night lasted 2 full minutes in the Devil's zone, and #68 was on the bench?

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12-21-2005, 03:40 PM
  #38
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Two or three like that...

and I bet one of them pots a goal...

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12-21-2005, 03:56 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyRangers
Sorry but as painful as it was I rewatched much of the game. Some observations on the penalties that were called.

We deserved most of the penalties that were called against us. Nylanders, in particular, were extremely lazy penalties that need to be called. When is Nylander going to learn that after someone strips him of the puck, if he hooks that guy, its going to get called. He's done it too many times this season and the refs are looking for it.

The Devils, for the most part, didn't use their sticks nearly as much as the Rangers did. Again, refs are looking for it and its going to get called. A guy like Nylander whose done it all season isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt in a call like that. Just the way it is.

Also, the Devils were skating and driving to the net all night long, but especially in the 3rd period. As a player if you keep your legs moving and your stick on the ice chances are pretty good you won't get too many calls against you. I blame this one on the players and on the coaching staff. Until we play a more disciplined game we are going to be on the short end of the rope when it comes to getting calls.
the discipline issue i certainly agree with. normally in a game against the devils, if you saw that the rangers took a lot of penalties, you'd expect them to be roughing, etc, which you can live with sometimes... but hooking, holding, obstruction, those don't have any positive effect.

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12-21-2005, 04:21 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
I think responsibility for penalties shoud lay solely with the officials.
And? The league has made it very clear that they like the way games are being called and will continue to direct the officials to make these sort of calls. The Rangers can do one of two things: get with program and start taking less stupid penalties--especially the hooking calls--or continue to be stupid and spend a big chunk of the game on the penalty kill.

Other teams have adapted, why is it so hard for this one to do the same?

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12-21-2005, 04:26 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
If players cannot stop taking penalties that hurt the team, then they should not be dressing. Simple as that. I understand that obstruction will occur from time to time, but not to this extent. If a player needs a benching to learn this lesson, so be it. If they still do not learn, then perhaps they should not dress until they do. I would wager that at that point, the lessons would be learned.
Why do you think that players like Ortmeyer, Hollweg, Moore, Betts & Ward do not take that many penalties? It's becuase they know that they are expendable and if they take penalty after penalty, then they will be replaced. Some of the vets should have the same fear.
well i agree with you they should sit except for ruckinsky because this team can't afford to be without his offense but the others can sit, but all im saying is that benching those type of players won't learn cause that how they play.

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12-21-2005, 04:26 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
I'm thinking Rozsival and Poti on one PP; Tyutin and Kondratiev, oops, he doesn't play anymore...Kaspar? on the second unit. Rozsival because he's a right handed shot. Poti because he's actually shown to be the better of the group at keeping the puck in and is starting to find the general vicinity of the net. And I agree on Tyutin. He may be struggling defensively here and there, but he's 22 and that's to be expected (And this is coming from a guy who's never been a huge fan of Tyutin).
Also other teams have realized that the Rangers second unit is pretty near useless.
If Jagr isn't out there the Rangers aren't going to score. Tyutin a couple years ago when he was playing all those games that didn't matter any more was getting plenty of powerplay time and it seemed he was being groomed at least as a 2nd or a 3rd pointman. I've been waiting for them to start using him but they don't. I don't care for the Malik-Roszival tandem and I don't think Straka or Poti have done a lot either. They could experiment with Tyutin or think about bringing up Pock. The only other 'real' option is a trade because the status quo is obviously not going to work.

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12-21-2005, 04:42 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KFC
well i agree with you they should sit except for ruckinsky because this team can't afford to be without his offense but the others can sit, but all im saying is that benching those type of players won't learn cause that how they play.
Funny, the team seemed to find a way to win when Ruchinsky was out with an injury for nearly 5 weeks. And even "old dogs" can learn new tricks. The league has changed. Player--even veterans--have to change too.

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12-21-2005, 04:48 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Renney has done a lot of things that I like, but it is time to turn the heat up on certain issues. I have three things that can only be laid at his feet.
1. The PP. Special teams almost always come down to coaching. He gets credit for the stellar PK, so too must he take the fall for the abysmal PP. There simply does not seem to be a different plan other than the Hoosier offense (4 or 5 mandatory passes before Jagr can shoot). Rozsival and Malik are not fit men to play the point. These would not man any PP unit on any other team. Renney keeps talking about more shots from the point, but I do not see it. The defense always hesitates and looks for a pass first before shooting. The art of the quick wrister seems to be dead.
The current state of the PP is the same exact blueprint as has been here for the better part of the decade. Getting simple shots on net and fighting for rebounds and ugly goals does not seem to be a part of the plan.
2. The undisciplined play. The discipline is no better than it has been under Trottier, Low or Sather himself. You will not have success for long if you keep taking between 6 & 8 obstruction minors every single game. Renney needs to start handing out punishment for multiple offendenses. And whomever the player is that puts the Rangers down 2 men, needs to be immediately benched and not see the ice for the rest of the game. And then not be dressed for the one after that. There simply is no excuse for taking this many obstruction penalties some 30+ games into the season.
3. Putting Jagr into a more advantageous situation. It is plain to see that when the opposing team puts their best defensemen and best defensive forwards against Jagr on each and every shift, that he is not as effective as he was earlier. IMO, it is simply inexcusable that Renney does not use the home ice advantage to get Jagr away from these guys. Make the other team adjust to you. Renney gets dictated to on a nightly basis. He makes no adjustments whatsoever when it comes to personnel. I know that the theory is to throw Jagr out there for as long as possible and hope that his sheer talent will be enough to beat the other teams players, but it is clearly not working right now. Renney needs to start to use line changes to his advantage.

Very nice job with this post, I was thinking these same thoughts while driving home today.

A team goes through many swings throughout the course of a season and it's blatant that this team is playing the worst hockey of the year so far and if not corrected immediately could cost us a playoff spot. Renney said at the start of the year that this team will be playing disciplined hockey and that they would be bringing their hard hats to every game, well over the past few games I haven't seen that at all. Lazy penalties, bad turnovers costing us games and no fire from the star players pretty much sums up what I've seen from this team as of late. A shake up needs to happen pronto or else we could easily loose the next three games as well.

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Old
12-21-2005, 04:52 PM
  #45
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I still can't figure out how he leaves matchups like madden vs Jagr and blake vs Jagr and not do anything about it even with last change.

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12-21-2005, 06:54 PM
  #46
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In part I agree with a lot of what you are saying

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Renney has done a lot of things that I like, but it is time to turn the heat up on certain issues. I have three things that can only be laid at his feet.
1. The PP. Special teams almost always come down to coaching. He gets credit for the stellar PK, so too must he take the fall for the abysmal PP. There simply does not seem to be a different plan other than the Hoosier offense (4 or 5 mandatory passes before Jagr can shoot). Rozsival and Malik are not fit men to play the point. These would not man any PP unit on any other team. Renney keeps talking about more shots from the point, but I do not see it. The defense always hesitates and looks for a pass first before shooting. The art of the quick wrister seems to be dead.
The current state of the PP is the same exact blueprint as has been here for the better part of the decade. Getting simple shots on net and fighting for rebounds and ugly goals does not seem to be a part of the plan.
2. The undisciplined play. The discipline is no better than it has been under Trottier, Low or Sather himself. You will not have success for long if you keep taking between 6 & 8 obstruction minors every single game. Renney needs to start handing out punishment for multiple offendenses. And whomever the player is that puts the Rangers down 2 men, needs to be immediately benched and not see the ice for the rest of the game. And then not be dressed for the one after that. There simply is no excuse for taking this many obstruction penalties some 30+ games into the season.
3. Putting Jagr into a more advantageous situation. It is plain to see that when the opposing team puts their best defensemen and best defensive forwards against Jagr on each and every shift, that he is not as effective as he was earlier. IMO, it is simply inexcusable that Renney does not use the home ice advantage to get Jagr away from these guys. Make the other team adjust to you. Renney gets dictated to on a nightly basis. He makes no adjustments whatsoever when it comes to personnel. I know that the theory is to throw Jagr out there for as long as possible and hope that his sheer talent will be enough to beat the other teams players, but it is clearly not working right now. Renney needs to start to use line changes to his advantage.
I disagree in the area of discipline mainly because I am unsure of whether you are saying that the team plays undiscipline or that he doesn't enforce discipline. The team certainly doesn't play undisciplined. Do they take stupid penalties? Yes! I would, like you, see him use the pine more as an effective combatant against repeat offenders. The question I have and haven't gotten an answer to it is are we being held back from doing that by waivers? I would like to see Dawes and Immonen given a shot. How do we accomplish that? We are limited by the 23 man roster to add someone you have assign someone, or two to hartford.

I think we all agree and recognize that we have riden Jagr intot he ground. That line has become very predictable and maybe we need to break up the comfort zone and not have Czech just playing with Jagr or on the PP.

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Old
12-21-2005, 06:56 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
And? The league has made it very clear that they like the way games are being called and will continue to direct the officials to make these sort of calls. The Rangers can do one of two things: get with program and start taking less stupid penalties--especially the hooking calls--or continue to be stupid and spend a big chunk of the game on the penalty kill.

Other teams have adapted, why is it so hard for this one to do the same?

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Old
12-21-2005, 08:50 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
1. The PP. Special teams almost always come down to coaching. He gets credit for the stellar PK, so too must he take the fall for the abysmal PP. There simply does not seem to be a different plan other than the Hoosier offense (4 or 5 mandatory passes before Jagr can shoot). Rozsival and Malik are not fit men to play the point. These would not man any PP unit on any other team. Renney keeps talking about more shots from the point, but I do not see it. The defense always hesitates and looks for a pass first before shooting. The art of the quick wrister seems to be dead.
The current state of the PP is the same exact blueprint as has been here for the better part of the decade. Getting simple shots on net and fighting for rebounds and ugly goals does not seem to be a part of the plan.
IMO the one constant on teams that have real good-great PP's, are great point men, which is something the Rangers currently lack. Coaching can help but can't overcome all defeciencies.

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Old
12-21-2005, 09:48 PM
  #49
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Renney is doing an awesome job. TB you make some excellant points but the bad outweights the good with Renney by far. Its easy to point out the obvious but teams are going to struggle throughout a long season. The Rangers are still a very good team. It isn't like this team is being blown out.

What i think the Rangers need to do is really change up the lines. In todays video day of age playing the same 12 forwards with the same linemates (basically) through more than a quater of the season is assine. If this team is truly interchangable (like Sather/Maloney/Renney all say) than prove it.

Just my two cents folks.

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Old
12-21-2005, 09:54 PM
  #50
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I say go with this vs Tampa:
Scratches= Poti or Roszival, Hossa, Nylander

Hollweg-Straka-Jagr
Rucinsky-Moore-Prucha
Ortmeyer-Betts-Ward
Nieminen-Rucchin-Orr

Kondratiev-Kasper
Tyutin-Strudwick
Malik-Rozey or Poti

Lundqvist
Weekes

Of course I doubt this is realistic, but this is my best lineup right now until some moves are made

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