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Who is the best Hab?

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Old
10-16-2003, 11:01 PM
  #1
Peter25
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Who is the best Hab?

Koivu. Zednik, Markov or Theodore?

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10-16-2003, 11:11 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25
Koivu. Zednik, Markov or Theodore?
Theo. It is painfully obvious. As good as the other 3 are, all 3 at their best means 10th place if Theo isn't.

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10-16-2003, 11:14 PM
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CHareth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25
Koivu. Zednik, Markov or Theodore?
I assume you mean currently, which disqualifies the injured Koivu. So, in order:

1) Theodore
2) Markov
3) Zednik

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10-16-2003, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
Theo. It is painfully obvious. As good as the other 3 are, all 3 at their best means 10th place if Theo isn't.
exactly

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Old
10-16-2003, 11:50 PM
  #5
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
Theo. It is painfully obvious. As good as the other 3 are, all 3 at their best means 10th place if Theo isn't.
This is flawed logic. We're talking about the best player, not the player with the most impact. Of course Theodore will have a greater impact on the Canadiens if he's not playing up to par; he's the goaltender. Goaltender is the most important position in the game.

This is why it's silly to compare a goaltender's talent level to a forward's. How can you guage how talented they are comparatively?

If we're talking talent levels, I say Koivu is the most talented.

If we're talking impact on the Canadiens, I would say Theodore. But virtually every team that has a top 10-15 goaltender would say the same thing (that their goaltender has the greatest impact on how successful they are as a team).

Impact wise: Theodore, Koivu, Markov, Souray, Zednik, Bulis -- in that order.

Talent wise: no doubt Koivu is first, then Markov. After that it drops off too much to even discuss.

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10-17-2003, 01:39 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Talent wise: no doubt Koivu is first, then Markov. After that it drops off too much to even discuss.
How can you say our top goalscorer and our league mvp lag too far behind Koivu and Markov in talent to even deserve mention?

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10-17-2003, 03:46 AM
  #7
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Imo, Koivu is the best. I truely beleive Koivu, if injuries and illnesses didn't stand in his way, would be considered a top ten player in this league. He has all the skills and smarts and imo is the best non-goalie hab since Lafleur (Naslund a very close 2nd).
Theodore is still young (for a goalie), so there is still alot of time for him to establish himself as one of the top (or top) at his position. He has proven to have the ability, he just needs to prove he can play at that level consistantly.

Imo, those two are the best, with others a little distance behind.

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Old
10-17-2003, 05:40 AM
  #8
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
How can you say our top goalscorer and our league mvp lag too far behind Koivu and Markov in talent to even deserve mention?
Not to be mean here, but did you fail to understand the post I made or simply skimmed to one specific line? I distiguished between a goaltender and skater. You can't compare a goalie's talent level to a skater. It's not possible.

Regarding Zednik: he's not in Koivu's world, talent wise. Yes, he was Montreal's top goal scorer. But that was by default, in that Montreal didn't have any other goal scorers. Added to that, he played next to a top tier playmaker who gave him chances for plenty more goals than he managed to bury.

Just take a look at their point totals. That's a decent reflection to their talent levels. The only difference is that Zednik put up career numbers with Koivu, whereas Koivu likely would have put the same numbers up with anybody.

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10-17-2003, 06:05 AM
  #9
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Talentwise/impactwise whatever you want to call it it's hands-down Theodore.

Koivu at his absolute best is still not a top 10 (probably not even top 20) skater in this league. He will always be one notch below the "superstar" status of Sakic, Yzerman, Mario etc. and other guys who can singlehandedly dominate and win a game.

Theo, on the other hand, is an elite goalie and showed us he can win games by himself and can be the player in league. He has superior talent and is a bona fide franchise player.

Zed and Markov are so far behind they aren't even worth mentioning in the same breath.

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10-17-2003, 06:49 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
Theo. It is painfully obvious. As good as the other 3 are, all 3 at their best means 10th place if Theo isn't.
Maybe last year and the previous few years before that but it doesn't look like it any longer. Theo has stolen nothing for us this year. The way the team has played he hasn't had to. If Julliens system continues to work this way and Theo continues to face shot totals in the low 20's there's no reason he shouldn't be winning games, but it doesn't mean that he's the most talented or biggest impact player. Last year he choked and the team in front of him didn't help. So far this season it looks like if he can at least be average then we'll be OK because the team is playing way better.

As for the most skilled player on the team I'd have to say Koivu. He make whoever he plays with a better player. The same can't be said about Zed or Markov.

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10-17-2003, 12:39 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
This is flawed logic. We're talking about the best player, not the player with the most impact. Of course Theodore will have a greater impact on the Canadiens if he's not playing up to par; he's the goaltender. Goaltender is the most important position in the game.

This is why it's silly to compare a goaltender's talent level to a forward's. How can you guage how talented they are comparatively?

If we're talking talent levels, I say Koivu is the most talented.

If we're talking impact on the Canadiens, I would say Theodore. But virtually every team that has a top 10-15 goaltender would say the same thing (that their goaltender has the greatest impact on how successful they are as a team).

Impact wise: Theodore, Koivu, Markov, Souray, Zednik, Bulis -- in that order.

Talent wise: no doubt Koivu is first, then Markov. After that it drops off too much to even discuss.
I agree with everything you say here. Talent wise for me it's Koivu then Markov all the way.

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10-17-2003, 12:47 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
This is flawed logic. We're talking about the best player, not the player with the most impact. Of course Theodore will have a greater impact on the Canadiens if he's not playing up to par; he's the goaltender. Goaltender is the most important position in the game.

This is why it's silly to compare a goaltender's talent level to a forward's. How can you guage how talented they are comparatively?

If we're talking talent levels, I say Koivu is the most talented.

If we're talking impact on the Canadiens, I would say Theodore. But virtually every team that has a top 10-15 goaltender would say the same thing (that their goaltender has the greatest impact on how successful they are as a team).

Impact wise: Theodore, Koivu, Markov, Souray, Zednik, Bulis -- in that order.

Talent wise: no doubt Koivu is first, then Markov. After that it drops off too much to even discuss.
Excellent post...I agree on the order of the players of talent and impact as well

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10-17-2003, 12:48 PM
  #13
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My vote goes to Koivu but I think in a few years Markov could possibly be the more talented of the 2. If Koivu had been healthy throughout his career there would be no doubt in my mind who`s the more talented but he hasn`t been able to prove much what with always being injured.

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10-17-2003, 01:34 PM
  #14
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Imo it is Zednik because he can play with everyone in will still be the same type of player.

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Old
10-17-2003, 03:03 PM
  #15
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1)Théodore
2)Koivu

tied for the 3rd place: Zednik and Markov

 
Old
10-17-2003, 05:58 PM
  #16
The Godfather
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In my mind there are no doubts about it : Theodore !

 
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10-17-2003, 06:01 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Godfather
In my mind there are no doubts about it : Theodore !
Welcome to the board Godfather! I hope you'll have some great times here. And IMO(In my opinion) Théodore is the best Habs player because he's the only one who can turn this franchise around and lead the Habs to the playoffs.

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10-17-2003, 06:07 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boutmania
Welcome to the board Godfather! I hope you'll have some great times here. And IMO(In my opinion) Théodore is the best Habs player because he's the only one who can turn this franchise around and lead the Habs to the playoffs.
Yes me too I think this is the main point but there is also the fact that theodore received huge pressure in the summer and even with it he continue to give good performances for his team. I hope some of the others players will forget their own matters and take him as an example.

 
Old
10-17-2003, 06:11 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Godfather
Yes me too I think this is the main point but there is also the fact that theodore received huge pressure in the summer and even with it he continue to give good performances for his team. I hope some of the others players will forget their own matters and take him as an example.
Yep... Theodore gave good performances so far but he has only 4 games played so let's see after 10 games...

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Old
10-17-2003, 06:24 PM
  #20
Guy!
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Sheesh, I think I just answered this question NHL-wide on the NHL boards.

The problem here is in the question. How do you define best? I'm not going into depth with what I stated before, so I'll just tell you that, in this case, by 'best' player, I'm taking the one who elevates the games of those players around him. We can talk all day about talent and skill-sets, and goalies vs. defensemen vs. forwards, but in my opinion, the 'best' is the one that makes everyone else better.

It's not Theo. When he plays poorly, the team plays even worse. It isn't Markov - if his game varies, you don't really notice it unless he's specifically on the ice. Zednik has a negligable impact on games when he's not involved.

Sax elevates those around him. Not to the extent that a Mario Lemieux does, but he does it. He plays the game at the highest level each shift and demands the same from his teammates. How many of you noticed, late last year, Sax coming to the bench at the end of a shift and absolutely tearing a strip off Breezer when the latter had made a series of bonehead plays. Did anyone catch the look of those watching? Let me tell you, they went on to play a much better game.

When you see your leader, captain and (let's be honest here) most talented skater working desperately hard night after night even in the worst conditions, don't you think it rubs off? Don't you think everyone else plays better?

Do you think Zed would have had 30 goals had Koivu not been on his line most of the year last year? How about the fact that the coaches put players on Koivu's line to get them out of slumps?

Just my opinion.

A concerned fan.

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