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top-10 players on these dynasties

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12-26-2005, 12:12 AM
  #1
arrbez
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top-10 players on these dynasties

Who in your opinion were the top 10 players (in order) on the Habs (70's), Islanders, and Oilers dynasties.

I'm especially curious to see who is picked as #1 for the Islanders, since I've heard arguments for Bossy, Trottier, and Potvin

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12-26-2005, 01:57 AM
  #2
reckoning
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Interesting question.

70s Habs:

1. Guy Lafleur
2. Ken Dryden
3. Larry Robinson
4. Serge Savard
5. Guy LaPointe
6. Jacques Lemaire
7. Steve Shutt
8. Bob Gainey
9. Doug Jarvis
10. Yvon Lambert

The top 4 are obvious, I can`t see anyone ranking them differently (Dryden was never truly appreciated until he left). #`s 5-9 could change on any given day (Gainey and Jarvis are almost dead even in my books). Note I left out Cournoyer as his career was winding down when the dynasty started, as well as Mahovlich who was only there for part of it.

80s Isles:

1. Bryan Trottier
2. Denis Potvin
3. Billy Smith
4. Mike Bossy
5. John Tonelli
6. Butch Goring
7. Ken Morrow
8. Clark Gillies
9. Stefan Persson
10. Bob Nystrom

Incredible depth on this team as several key members of the team (Bourne, Kallur, Sutter, Jonsson) couldn`t be fit on the list. Tonelli is grossly underrated. Gillies low ranking is only because his best years were in the late-70s before the Cups. It was tough to pick between Trots, Potvin and Smith for #1; you could make a solid argument for all of them. However, I have no doubt that Bossy is #4.

80s Oilers:

1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Mark Messier
3. Paul Coffey
4. Jari Kurri
5. Grant Fuhr
6. Glenn Anderson
7. Charlie Huddy
8. Esa Tikkanen
9. Kevin Lowe
10. ???????

Not as much depth as you might think here. Who do you put at #10- Randy Gregg? Kevin McClelland? I considered Moog but he didn`t see enough playoff action to qualify. I cheated by putting Tikkanen here as he didn`t really shine until the 90s. Regardless of what some on this board will argue, Wayne Gretzky was indeed by far the best player on this team. Huddy, not Lowe, was their best defensive defenceman.


Last edited by reckoning: 12-26-2005 at 02:03 AM.
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Old
12-26-2005, 04:41 AM
  #3
VanIslander
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Bob Gainey 8th ?

Esa Tikkanen 8th ?

There is a real bias in that ranking... against top-line defensively-excellent forwards that dominated when it mattered most and did what it took to win in clutch situations?

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12-26-2005, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
Esa Tikkanen 8th ?

There is a real bias in that ranking... against top-line defensively-excellent forwards that dominated when it mattered most and did what it took to win in clutch situations?
As he stated he put Esa lower because he was a dynasty latecomer. But seriously who does he dislodge to move up? Fuhr, Anderson? Kurri? Esa was an amazing player but I would place him behind Lowe who was there for it all and played far more ice time than Esa. Huddy and Lowe are under-rated as to what they brought to the Oilers through the entire dynasty.

I might put Coffey above Messier except he skipped out early on the dynasty. Coffey was the 2nd best offencive player in the world in the mid 80's to only Gretzky. He was the most important player besides Gretzky on the first 3 cups teams IMO. He brought a different dimension to the Oilers than any team had every had. Orr was better but Coffey was different than Orr, more one dimensional than Orr yet still made a mess of everyone on the PK and 4 on 4 and on the PP. He is probably the best offencive special team D-Man of all time and is the Oiler most responsible for the NHL 4 on 4 rule change the league made in the mid 1980's to limit the Oilers.

But with the 1990 cup Messier does indeed deserve 2nd place billing.

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12-26-2005, 10:00 AM
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reckoning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
Bob Gainey 8th ?

Esa Tikkanen 8th ?

There is a real bias in that ranking... against top-line defensively-excellent forwards that dominated when it mattered most and did what it took to win in clutch situations?
There`s no bias there; usually I give those types of players more credit than most. But where I ranked them was fair.

Gainey: Of the 7 players I rated above him who would you have rated below him. Lafleur? Dryden? The big 3 defencemen? Please. Lemaire was exactly what you described: a player who did what it took to win in clutch situations. Shutt over Gainey is debatable, but I don`t see any overwhelming evidence to give Gainey the edge.
Let me say this about Gainey: he was a fine defensive forward, one of the best ever. But if you`re going to put him in the Hall, then you better put Craig Ramsay and Don Marcotte there too because they were just as good defensively and much better offensively. What about Doug Jarvis? He was shutting down the top centres in the league as well as taking every important faceoff in the defensive zone.

Gainey`s reputation is based on 3 things:
1- 5 Cups and a Conn Smythe: Impressive for sure, but can anyone honestly say that Montreal wouldn`t have won those Cups without him. If he had been drafted by say.. L.A or Vancouver instead of Montreal, how many Cup rings would he have?

2- The Selkes: Keep in mind that this award is really more reputation than actual play that year. Writers voted for Gainey automatically instead of analyzing what each player did that year. Gainey ranked right up there with the other top checkers in the league, but I don`t see anything that puts him head and shoulders above the rest. It was a total joke that he won in `80 as that was one of his weakest years ever.

3- The Russian comment: Who was it; Tarasov or Tikhonov? Anyways, one of them said that Gainey was the best all-around player in the world. Instead of presenting it as only one person`s opinion, the media started treating it like the Gospel, because "The Russians are infinitely superior to us in every way, so if they say something it must be true." Let me repeat: It was only one person`s opinion. If he truly believed that Gainey was a better player than Lafleur, Trottier, Clarke or Potvin, I`d like to know how much vodka he drank before saying that.

Tikkanen: As I mentioned, his best years were after the 80s dynasty so that`s why he`s not ranked higher. Once again, which of the players above him would you rate below him? Some may put Huddy belowe him, but is that because of a bias against top-level defensively-excellent defencemen?

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Old
12-26-2005, 11:18 AM
  #6
raleh
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Reckoning, I like your oilers and islanders lists. I probably would move Anderson ahead of Fuhr, but I LOVE Huddy ahead of Lowe. My Habs, and yes there is bias here I'll be the first to admit it,

1.Gainey
2.Lafleur
3.Robinson
4.Savard
5.Dryden
6.Shutt
7.Lapointe
8.Cornoyer
9.Frank Mahovolich
10.Tremblay

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12-26-2005, 05:47 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleh
Reckoning, I like your oilers and islanders lists. I probably would move Anderson ahead of Fuhr, but I LOVE Huddy ahead of Lowe. My Habs, and yes there is bias here I'll be the first to admit it,

1.Gainey
2.Lafleur
3.Robinson
4.Savard
5.Dryden
6.Shutt
7.Lapointe
8.Cornoyer
9.Frank Mahovolich
10.Tremblay
Frank Mahovolich left the Habs in 73-74 before the 4 year cup run we are talking about in this thread - you mean Pete?

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