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Hatcher out 4-6 Months

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Old
10-17-2003, 11:34 AM
  #51
Darth Vitale
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Heheheh. Not that I don't wish him a full recovery but this will make things a little more interesting as far as Detroit's playoff draw. Obviously he'll be back in time for the playoffs but I don't imagine he'll log a lot of minutes either coming back from an injury like that.

Easy does it or you tear it a second time and end your career, right?

This makes it a much more even race for the Division with St. Louis now. Even with Al's eye problem (detached retina).

As for a trade, [Detroit will only have] leverage against a team that has a deep defensive corps and fairly deep pockets. Otherwise, who's going to take Cujo's salary on while losing one of their best blue-liners? There's no real payoff there... it's a wash. You get a better goalie but also more SOG.

I think Vancouver would actually be the right type of team to make this trade, were Detroit to eat half of Cujo's salary. Otherwise they could not afford it. Who else is there? Carolina maybe? Colorado and and St. Louis wouldn't trade any of their top-flight defenders for Cujo. It would be suicide.

Who else has the money and defensive depth, and bad goal tending?

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Old
10-17-2003, 11:36 AM
  #52
Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
He has done it on 4 different occasions for no reason. Also calling someone a homer is considered an attack. He likes saying something about me thats not true so I'l do the same, I don't let people run all over me.
His oppinion is that you are a homer, is it your oppinion that he has STD's? If so, how did you form this oppinion? Just curious what inspired you to write that...

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Old
10-17-2003, 11:37 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
Give an example then I'l try and fix my habbits. The last times I debated about a devils player was Turco vs Brodeur (stickhandling), This thread (and it is true), Gomez's speed vs Tkachuk's speed, and Parise vs Higgins (I think Parise is better.....lol)
You always seemed to be a pretty good guy despite some heavy bias towards the Devs but I never felt the need to get involved with your positions about how the Devs and everything associated with them are absolutely the best thing to ever happen to hockey but you've started through out little jabs here and there such as the one the other day about leaving the NYR fans alone b/c they have enough to worry about like making sure they can draft Ovechkin(sp?) by finishing last in the league which is fine but when you do stuff like that just expect others to come at you on occasion.

Thats all.

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Old
10-17-2003, 11:44 AM
  #54
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I said Stevens does everything under the rules, Hatcher doesn't do anything under the rules. When Hatcher injured someone it is for elbowing someone or using his stick. When stevens injures someone it is because he throws a bodycheck under the rules. There is a huge differnce.
LOL.

You ARE a naive little munchkin, aren't you?

H-O-M-E-R.

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Old
10-17-2003, 11:44 AM
  #55
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While it stinks that Hatcher is out for 4-6 monthes it may in the end turn out to be a blessing. The main time grit is needed is come playoff time, and that is where the Wings really need him, and I would much rather him get hurt now rather than Christmas time. Besides he may turn until another Chelios 02 story where Cheli came back from injury late in teh season and was a complete warrior vs. the Nucks. Hopefully Hatcher will be able to do this too.

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Old
10-17-2003, 11:46 AM
  #56
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Fair enough.

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Old
10-17-2003, 11:47 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
I think Vancouver would actually be the right type of team to make this trade, were Detroit to eat half of Cujo's salary. Otherwise they could not afford it. Who else is there? Carolina maybe? Colorado and and St. Louis wouldn't trade any of their top-flight defenders for Cujo. It would be suicide.

Who else has the money and defensive depth, and bad goal tending?
Canucks have no interest in CuJo, Cloutier/Hedberg tandem is fine.

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Old
10-17-2003, 11:48 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
I was sticking up for the ranger, that Ovechkin thing was a little joke, I like the rangers and hope they make the playoffs. I was telling the jerk Isles fan to lay off. If people couldn't see that then maybe I was in the wrong and sorry if I offended them. I am the least biast devils fan around, go to devils board or even better www.njdevs.com and see what they have to say about me. There are only a one players I am biast towards and that is Gomez.
Fair enough.

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Old
10-17-2003, 11:51 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
No 18 and I didnt give any personal attacks, he actually was the only one giving attacks, hes been doing it for months now and I still don't see why.

"Well he started it!!!!"


18 huh?

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Old
10-17-2003, 11:51 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
again, a if this is your definition of what a cheapshot is, then it's not the same as playing dirty.

playing dirty IMO means you cross the line between what is legal and what is not...
Maybe, but that's just an argument over semantics, which is pointless. I'm just saying that a hit being legal doesn't preclude it from being a cheap shot.

Quote:
and you're point isn't totally clear here either... is this player trying to lay a vicious hit, and/or trying to "hurt them"?? cause if there is any intent to hurt a player, then it's not legal... in the last second of a game, where there is nothing to gain, and if a player does do this, you will find a greater chance of that player getting suspended because it would fall under the intent to injure rule.
If it's a legal check within the rules, he probably wouldn't get suspended. But there's clearly no point to dishing out a vicious hit other than to hurt someone in that situation. At some point, there ought to be a certain level of sportsmanship. They've beaten you, or you've beaten them, a huge check now is meaningless. Bump 'em, okay, but laying someone out when the score is like 5-0 with a few seconds to play is lame.

Quote:
and even in the last minute of a game already won, there is always a reason to stay alert and finish your checks... it's unlikely that it's the last time these two teams will ever play - so sending a message - as long as it's legal, should not be penalized, nor seen as being dirty or cheap.
Sending a message when the season isn't finished, okay. But when the you're talking about the last game of a series it's totally meaningless. There's a time to send messages, but when you're up or down by a bunch of goals in a clinching game, that's not the time.

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Old
10-17-2003, 11:59 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
Heheheh. Not that I don't wish him a full recovery but this will make things a little more interesting as far as Detroit's playoff draw. Obviously he'll be back in time for the playoffs but I don't imagine he'll log a lot of minutes either coming back from an injury like that.

Easy does it or you tear it a second time and end your career, right?

This makes it a much more even race for the Division with St. Louis now. Even with Al's eye problem (detached retina).

As for a trade, [Detroit will only have] leverage against a team that has a deep defensive corps and fairly deep pockets. Otherwise, who's going to take Cujo's salary on while losing one of their best blue-liners? There's no real payoff there... it's a wash. You get a better goalie but also more SOG.

I think Vancouver would actually be the right type of team to make this trade, were Detroit to eat half of Cujo's salary. Otherwise they could not afford it. Who else is there? Carolina maybe? Colorado and and St. Louis wouldn't trade any of their top-flight defenders for Cujo. It would be suicide.

Who else has the money and defensive depth, and bad goal tending?

wow, your way off.

1st. St. Louis losing Mac will have much more of an effect on St. Louis than Detroit losing Hatcher. Detroit has the best depth in the league, and their top 6 is still amongst the best, with Colorado and NJ.

2nd. Holland was on Detroit talk radio this morning, and indicated that the Wings ARE NOT looking to trade for a defenseman. They are using their depth and calling up a guy from Grand Rapids(hopefully Kronwall).

3rd. CuJo will be traded for picks if possible. If not, they will try and take on an overpriced forward....thats why names like Lang, Lapointe, and Lindros have surrounded the wings in trade rumors.

4th. Detroit eats 1/2 of CuJo's salary....fine....but whats Detroit getting back? Not Defense. Not offense. Detroit would have to take picks, and if they are trading CuJo to Vancouver for picks, they will be nice picks. A rival getting a #1 goaltender for draft picks is going to be costly.....not to mention the fact that they already aquired Hedberg(an excellent goalie IMO) to back up Cloutier(since he will lose his job to Hedberg). They have absolutely no room for CuJo.

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Old
10-17-2003, 12:02 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
if this is the case, you can't blame the player... it's the rules that have to be looked at.

a "cheapshot" by definition should be outside what is acceptable in the rules.

and even beyond that I can't think of a situation where something like this would happen.

If a player's purpose is to hurt someone, they're breaking the rules, because you already have "intent to injure" there... if a player's purpose is to hit as hard as they can, while not doing anything illegal, then ... well IMO that's the way the game should be played!

The rules are set so there are no intentional injuries within the rules - from penalties for using your elbows, to sticks, to knees... to majors for intent.
i think a better way of putting hatcher's style might be to say that he gets away with intent to injure by failing to exercise restraint, rather than 'legal cheapshots.' he and stevens both, in my opinion, take runs at other players and hit them as hard as they possibly can; but, when you hit someone 'as hard as you can,' you are by definition not restraining yourself, and in a physical sport, some self-restraint, other than keeping your lebows down, is absolutely necessary. unfortunately, self-restraint is not in the rules regarding otherwise 'clean' bodychecks. in that sense then, nuckfan, i think you're absolutely right, there is a problem with the rules.

i think that the bottom line is that players like stevens and hatcher occasionally fail to show necessary restraint. i mean, lets be honest, if everyone threw checks as vicously as those two, we would have many fewer players.

 
Old
10-17-2003, 12:05 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
NJ doesn't have the third best dmen in the NHL. The devils only have a good top 3, after that they have White who is overated by most devils fans and two rookies who have sucked IMO. They are getting closer to 6th IMO. Isles, Ottawa, Colorado, St Louis, Detroit are all ahead of NJ. The only thing NJ has going for them is they are healthy.
Nice try to show your not a "homer".. but on the ice, New Jersey has one of the most effective D-units in the NHL. Probably top 3..

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Old
10-17-2003, 12:10 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Modano = God
OMG.. this utterly sucks.. Sure he's a wing but he remains one of my favorite players ever..

Get well soon Derian..
Karma's a *****. He can go screw himself.

peace~!

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10-17-2003, 02:51 PM
  #65
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No fun to hear about. Back to playoffs... have heard that before I think.

There will be an uphill battle now. Fischer will get more icetime but he has looked good so far. Lidstrom will get his usualy 28 minutes another season.

I just hope Hasek hangs in there the whole season.... and Yzerman.

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Old
10-17-2003, 04:28 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
When I was new here, I have been here since the old boards, I think you have it backwords. If stevens didn't do it then some other guy would have, that was a matter of time. Anyway, that was a clean hit and Lindros came back to early.
It had nothing to do with coming back too early. If you remember game 6, he was the best player on the ice for either team. You said it yourself, Stevens hits to hurt. He was quoted as saying he took out lindros because he thought Eric was the only one who could beat them. In my opinion, that's not within the rules of hockey. Hitting with intent to injure should be a suspension. Why hasn't he been suspended? I think reputation has a lot to do with it. He had a great career and stars always get star treatment, that's just my opinion. If guys like Tyson Nash delivered the same types of hits, they'd be suspended all the time, jmo though.

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Old
10-17-2003, 05:21 PM
  #67
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Well ****. This isn't good for the Wings. Then again, it will get Fischer more ice time, and the way he looks, opposing teams should be scared ****less. Fischer for the All Star team baby!

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Old
10-17-2003, 06:33 PM
  #68
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I find myself using the ignore feature for the first time, I feel it's the beginning of a trend. A sign I'm getting old I guess.

As for Hatcher, I don't really like him as a player, but wishing a player's career to end or cheering over an injury to somebody is really deeply stupid. I guess common sense is too much of an evidence and got out of fashion.

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Old
10-17-2003, 06:38 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMacIsaac
I don't like the guy, he plays dirty and I am glad he isn't going to be in the NHL for a couple of months, nobody deserves an injury but if someone did it would be this dirty SOB.

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Old
10-17-2003, 06:42 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Modano = God
Stevens isn't exactly momma's little boy either so I dunno if you carry much credibillity saying that.

And how can Derian elbow players with his stick? I know he's funny looking but he doesn't have weird elbows with sticks sticking out..
Don't even bother defending derian. Everyone know's he is dirty and he's always got his elbows up.

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Old
10-17-2003, 06:44 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmbt
I'll give you one example ... say you've got a playoff series where it's basically over, with a minute to play in the clinching game and a 5 goal lead. Now, one guy sees a player whose attention has drifted for a second, and has an opportunity to totally blast him. He delivers a completely legal but still very vicious check. Is this a cheap shot? I would say yes it is, even though the hit itself may be legal. There's absolutely no purpose to laying someone out at that point other than trying to hurt them.
I think you are confusing cheapshots with lack of sportsmanship

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Old
10-17-2003, 06:59 PM
  #72
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JasonMacIsaac - How come Stevens never tries those checks he's pulled off on skilled players like Lindros, Kariya, and Francis on someone big/tough such as Hatcher, Chara, or Laraque?

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Old
10-17-2003, 07:09 PM
  #73
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At the risk of getting flamed, I've felt Hatcher has been overrated and it was a mistake for the Wings to offer him this kind of deal.

Nevertheless, it does always suck when one of your players gets injured. I'm a Kings fan, I know

In terms of trade rumors... why not Cujo for Brisebois? Both are seriously overpaid :snicker

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Old
10-17-2003, 07:39 PM
  #74
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Crossing the blueline with the puck and your head down, is the same as walking in front of a bus without looking both ways before you cross the street. Don't blame the bus driver. In France, a driver can sue a pedestrian if he hits him while jaywalking. Kariya, Lindros, Kozlov, Francis,and Willis should be glad they didn't get two minutes for delay of game.

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Old
10-17-2003, 08:35 PM
  #75
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I don't know where the 4 month estimate comes from, no way he comes back that fast. The ironic thing is, some people thought Heatley's career might be over (and solely because of the physical injury and not the psychological or criminal effects) and here Hatcher has the same injury.

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