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Ryan underused by USA

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12-27-2005, 08:27 AM
  #1
JrHockeyFan
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Ryan underused by USA

I watched as much as I could stand of the US/Norway game. I was surprised to see Ryan listed as the "13th" extra forward playing with reduced time. What gives?

Is the American team that strong? Do they over-rate College players in the US? Or do we over-rate Jr players in Canada?

I tend to think that they have a strong bias for college players in the US since American Jr hockey is more or less just a feeder for them. On the other hand, I really can't believe that there are 12 forwards better than Ryan who is obviously a very good player.

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12-27-2005, 09:40 AM
  #2
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Yes, it's quite hard to believe that a guy like Gerbe or Skille could be ahead of Ryan in Team USA's depth chart on offence...

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12-27-2005, 10:13 AM
  #3
thomasincanada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan
Is the American team that strong? Do they over-rate College players in the US? Or do we over-rate Jr players in Canada?
Clearly in this case they are under-rating Ryan, perhaps because he plays in Canada.

He is one of their top 3 forwards whether they realize it or not. As a fan of Canada I don't mind them sitting him, though

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12-27-2005, 10:26 AM
  #4
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It's criminal.

It's they message they are sending to any young American players, choose the CHL and we will **** you over, repeatedly, just like they did with Schremp last year.

And that's going to hurt the development of American hockey, because like it or not the CHL is the best development league in the world.

But yeah, it's an absolute farce.

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12-27-2005, 10:47 AM
  #5
JrHockeyFan
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Peculiar

You may be right that they are sending out a message, but I really wonder if it is deliberate. I still think they believe that their college players are better. But you have to think they would know better when dealing with the really good players that are not going the college route. Especially a guy taken so high in the NHL draft. i expected to see Ryan on the first or second line, quite a shock.

Oh well, as Thomas points out, it will be their loss if they leave him on the bench.

On a side note: You really have to wonder what the effect will be if the Jr leagues start limiting "imports". Personally, I'd rather see the best players without any restrictions. But if restrictions are put in place, maybe a lot of these guys will go the college route anyway.

What is the background of the US coach and his staff? I have to admit I know nothing about their coaches.

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12-27-2005, 11:26 AM
  #6
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US Coach

Did a google and found "Walt Kyle" is the coach.

His background is USHL and college as a player (BC and Northern Michigan). He was drafted 15 round by the WHA in '74

Coaching career started at Northern Michigan. Spent short stints at IHL, AHL, and WHL teams. Was an assistant coach with Anahein 2 yrs and NYR 2 yrs. Is now back at Northern Michigan. No really huge seasons anywhere at any level. Was 0.569 winning with the Hamilton Bulldogs as a high point.

I don't know the guy so it is hard to criticize. He is a career coach who must have some kind of reputation to get this job

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...alt-kyle_x.htm

The above link shines some light on his background and ideals. He was "really blessed" to play college hockey, and play in the NCAA final 4 the last 3 yrs. When asked about selections:

Quote:
Most of your players are college players in the U.S. What kind of scouting are you able to do before selecting the team?

We have a scouting staff, which consists of our general manager Jim Johansson and two guys who work in the National Hockey League who are out for us watching guys on a full-time basis. Our entire coaching staff is involved in scouting as well. We also talk to guys in the business out doing the job, and we solicit their opinions as well.
Even more telling, when asked about winning the WJC or the NCAA:

Quote:
If you could win an NCAA title or a world championship with the junior team, which would you rather do?

I'd prefer to do 'em both, I can tell you that right now! It's always an honor and a privilege to represent your country and of course you want to make the most of that opportunity with what we hope is a great group of guys. But here at Northern, I've sweated a lot and bled a lot with the guys who are here, and I certainly owe them a lot. It's a tough question to answer, but my preference would be to win them both.
Not to demean NCAA hockey. And I know that is his present job. But not being able to pick winning a World Championship over an NCAA title ??? Why did he take the job.

Clearly to this guy, NCAA is the be-all and end-all of the hockey world.

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12-27-2005, 12:06 PM
  #7
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the USA hockey program loves its' College Players...end of story

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12-27-2005, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Even more telling, when asked about winning the WJC or the NCAA:


Quote:
If you could win an NCAA title or a world championship with the junior team, which would you rather do?

I'd prefer to do 'em both, I can tell you that right now! It's always an honor and a privilege to represent your country and of course you want to make the most of that opportunity with what we hope is a great group of guys. But here at Northern, I've sweated a lot and bled a lot with the guys who are here, and I certainly owe them a lot. It's a tough question to answer, but my preference would be to win them both.



Not to demean NCAA hockey. And I know that is his present job. But not being able to pick winning a World Championship over an NCAA title ??? Why did he take the job.

Clearly to this guy, NCAA is the be-all and end-all of the hockey world.
I don't think this takes away from his determination, it just shows dedication to the league he's played been a part of for a long time. If you've been a part of an organization for a long period of time then that championship can consume you.

I've only read a few articles and seen some interviews with Kyle, but they've shown enough not to doubt his commitment to USA Hockey.



On the US's use of Ryan.

It's early and they were playing Norway. I would hope to see more of him in the coming games.

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12-27-2005, 04:41 PM
  #9
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Yeah

Yes I can see your points. I am not questioning his dedication to NCAA hockey or US hockey. It is just that his dedication to that program may have blinded him a bit towards picking college guys first.

As for it being early, you may have a good point, but on the other hand making Ryan a 13th forward serves no real purpose that I can see. By the same token, you have to admit that the US program has not given players from the CHL much respect lately.

I think they want players from their own program to shine first. I think that bias clearly comes through in the interview and that was what I am suggesting. Not that he is a bad coach or lacks dedication.

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12-27-2005, 05:05 PM
  #10
Heat McManus
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I agree. The US program should pay more attention to CHL players, but it's also an issue of familiarity. The US program is more familiar with players that have gone through their system. Wasn't Sutter accused of favoring WHL players? I think any player going to the CHL knows that they might be hurting their WJC chances.

Having said that, I think the US should take the the best players to make the best team regardless of where they are playing. Anson Carter was a huge part of Canadian WJC gold even though he was playing for Mich. State in the NCAA.

It's stupid to shun a player of incredible skill for the sole reason of him being in the CHL however I can see there being other reasons.

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12-27-2005, 05:53 PM
  #11
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Shouldn't this thread have been started after a POOR U.S. performance, and not a pasting against Norway?

Whatever the reason, and politics is likely the reason, their decision was the right one after their first game. I think Bobby Ryan will be a tremendous NHLer, but it IS possible that for this particular squad he's not good enough to play on a regular line. After all, I think this is the best team in the tournament, and I think they definitely have the most depth up front.

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12-27-2005, 06:23 PM
  #12
thomasincanada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
Shouldn't this thread have been started after a POOR U.S. performance, and not a pasting against Norway?
How they did against a country who's world junior team couldn't beat many high schools is irrelevent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
Whatever the reason, and politics is likely the reason, their decision was the right one after their first game. I think Bobby Ryan will be a tremendous NHLer, but it IS possible that for this particular squad he's not good enough to play on a regular line. After all, I think this is the best team in the tournament, and I think they definitely have the most depth up front.
The US team could very well win without Ryan, as they are talented... but there is *no way* that Ryan is not good enough to play on a regular line on that team.

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12-27-2005, 07:35 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
but it IS possible that for this particular squad he's not good enough to play on a regular line.

No it's not.

In fact, it's not possible for him to be not a top 6 forward on this team.

Was the same with Schremp last year, he had obvious talent and they shunned him and gave him little time, in the end, they paid for it.

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12-31-2005, 11:20 AM
  #14
JrHockeyFan
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Bit more ice

Ryan is getting more ice time now. He seems to be out there with Schremp a lot. But their line is probably #3 at best. Ryan looked rusty against Finland. The #3 lines do not see a lot of ice since checking lines and special teams with all the penalties will get a fair amount of ice.

Somebody could possibly convince me that he should not be on the top line, and only because they should not put all their eggs in one basket. No way should Ryan be excluded from the top two lines. He is clearly good enough. To say otherwise is simply not recognizing the size and skill. Skating does need work though.

It is pretty clear to me that US hockey people want to keep college hockey at the fore-front. Canadian Jr is a rival for talent from both sides of the border. Advancing those college players is strictly there to draw more players into the college route. Understandable politically, but a disadvantage to their team IMHO.

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12-31-2005, 12:13 PM
  #15
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When the going gets tough the tough get going. The CHL kids, Schremp, Mueller and Ryan have carried the U.S the last couple games.

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01-01-2006, 12:12 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagneOwnsYou
When the going gets tough the tough get going. The CHL kids, Schremp, Mueller and Ryan have carried the U.S the last couple games.
They didn't tonight. Ryan needed to play more physical IMO - he's a big kid but he just seemed to get pushed around tonight (as did much of the US team).

Schremp had a couple of good shots but other than that didn't really show up. I was expecting a little more from the knight guys tonight.

Parent was a stud though...

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01-01-2006, 10:36 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasincanada
They didn't tonight. Ryan needed to play more physical IMO - he's a big kid but he just seemed to get pushed around tonight (as did much of the US team).

Schremp had a couple of good shots but other than that didn't really show up. I was expecting a little more from the knight guys tonight.

Parent was a stud though...
To be honest no-one really played too well tonight, especially for the U.S.

Ryan isin't really that physical of a player, yes he'll run over guys but that's not really his game.

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01-01-2006, 06:28 PM
  #18
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Rating things

I didn't think Ryan or Schremp had a particularly good game, but the effort was there though.

Even though Bolland did not tally a goal or point tonite, he made some good passes through the slot to set guys up on the doorstep. Unfortunately they were mishandled.

I am just glad to see the OHL boys getting a bit more respect from team USA. They deserve it.

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01-04-2006, 09:17 PM
  #19
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I find it interesting that my friends north of the border can plainly see what is going on with USA Hockey in the states. USA Hockey does not even know that there are states west of the rockies (12 kids from So. California alone playing in the W), let alone Jr. age players worthy of playing on their international teams. There is a myopic view that the college players in the Northeastern states are the automatic go to guys, period. Bobby Ryan moved from California to Michigan to get recognition. Somehow he manages to suceed in the O, get drafted by the ducks, but can't get any time on a tournament team full of primadonas and jam tarts coached by an average ex-player. Seems like the people who get hired and fired for their talent scouting abilities seem to find the quality players while team USA staff get shuffled around only to bungle some other assignment. PICK AND PLAY THE BEST AND STOP HOPING FOR "MIRACLES"

Good luck Team Canada in your quest for the gold.

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01-05-2006, 05:42 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
Shouldn't this thread have been started after a POOR U.S. performance, and not a pasting against Norway?

Whatever the reason, and politics is likely the reason, their decision was the right one after their first game. I think Bobby Ryan will be a tremendous NHLer, but it IS possible that for this particular squad he's not good enough to play on a regular line. After all, I think this is the best team in the tournament, and I think they definitely have the most depth up front.
Hahahah, yeah right. The U.S team were only good enough to come 4th, they were soundly outplayed by both Russia and Finland in the playoffs, and played about equal by all of Canada, Switzerland, and Finland in the round robin, and by Czechs in the playoffs. A player who is good enough to be a tremendous NHLer no way in he%l should be a 13th forward at the World juniors. Both Schremp and Ryan were victimized by the idiot U.S coaching staff and their ridiculous bias to U.S college players, and players who knows the right people. Glad to see they did not get away with it, and they got the disaesterous tournament they deserved for it.

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01-05-2006, 05:45 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy
I find it interesting that my friends north of the border can plainly see what is going on with USA Hockey in the states. USA Hockey does not even know that there are states west of the rockies (12 kids from So. California alone playing in the W), let alone Jr. age players worthy of playing on their international teams. There is a myopic view that the college players in the Northeastern states are the automatic go to guys, period. Bobby Ryan moved from California to Michigan to get recognition. Somehow he manages to suceed in the O, get drafted by the ducks, but can't get any time on a tournament team full of primadonas and jam tarts coached by an average ex-player. Seems like the people who get hired and fired for their talent scouting abilities seem to find the quality players while team USA staff get shuffled around only to bungle some other assignment. PICK AND PLAY THE BEST AND STOP HOPING FOR "MIRACLES"

Good luck Team Canada in your quest for the gold.
You are so right, that is very obviously what is going on.

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01-07-2006, 02:07 PM
  #22
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Gotta give Sutter credit

This is not to knock anyone, but you have to give Sutter credit. There was criticism of the selections (even by me) of the players that he chose. It seemed there were "stars" left out. Instead, he made the selections that would fit his system of play and play as a team.

Not to knock Hockey USA, but was there a clear vision of the style they wanted to play? The team has to be "a team". That idea seemed to be the core of the Brooks "miracle on ice". I did not see that shining through on the US team which without doubt had talented players.

Anyway, glad to see CHL players on many teams playing a strong role in this tourney.

BTW: With the exception of riding Johnson for the elbow I really did not understand the crowd at the WJC. Booing the US and cheering whoever they were playing was just plain bad behaviour.

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01-07-2006, 09:39 PM
  #23
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the US had terrible on ice chemisty which was evident by those who watched and was confirmed by what Schremp said when he came back to London..

The blame starts at the top. They never jelled and had no idea how to use players like Schremp and Ryan. Coaching staff gets a thumbs down.

Note to the US program - if you rely on a (now 18 year old) potential first overall draft pick to lead your team to gold you are will NEVER win.

Hope they learn from this year when they will again be favorites to compete for the gold.

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01-09-2006, 05:35 PM
  #24
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Makes sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSqueelin
the US had terrible on ice chemisty which was evident by those who watched and was confirmed by what Schremp said when he came back to London..

The blame starts at the top. They never jelled and had no idea how to use players like Schremp and Ryan. Coaching staff gets a thumbs down.

Note to the US program - if you rely on a (now 18 year old) potential first overall draft pick to lead your team to gold you are will NEVER win.

Hope they learn from this year when they will again be favorites to compete for the gold.
I have to agree that it was not clear what the plan was with that US team. Sutter picked guys who would fit (and more importantly follow) his game plan. Sutter was quite strict when it game to playing smart and by the plan. You messed up even once or twice, you sat.

The US appeared to pick marquee NCAA guys and threw in a few CHL stars. Lots of talent on the ice to be sure, but not a cohesive bunch. Kessel in particular either hogged the puck or created off sides trying to force passes to him.

The US did not lose for lack of effort. It just came down to lack of team work IMHO.

On the other hand, if they don't tie the Swiss, chances are that Canada would have been forced to take the long route to the final with the US getting the bye. That game killed the US.

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