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12-31-2005, 12:20 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue
If Cloutier is such an A-1 goalie, why does it seem like every trade rumor originating out of Vancouver (or from Vancouver fans) involve getting rid of him, or getting another goaltender? His current injury status may have something to do with the notion of getting another goalie, but there has been way too much speculation about sending Clotuier packing to make me think that he'd be a desireable option.
IMO, there are a lot of impatient fans that patrol the Canucks' board that have no patience for a goaltender in the post-season, and I don't tottally blame them for that. Cloutier has become a very solid regular season goalie with the Canucks but his biggest question marks are his post-season play, and his durability towards the end of the season. Over the years he has improved his play in the post-season up until the '03/'04 season in which he looked solid against the Flames before succombing to injury. Cloutier is a talented goalie and IMO, he will one day become a solid playoff goalie if given the chance. He's just been extremely frustrating to Canucks fans and with the Canucks in a win-now mode, and with Cloutier still having some question marks around his post-season play, the Canucks need to move on IMO. His season ending injury this year pushed that over the top for many people.

Personally, right now, I wish Cloutier was back with the Canucks.

Quote:
I understand your wanting to defend Cloutier, and understand that he's shown flashes of ability often enough in the past to make a reasonable person believe that he's got what it takes to be a top goalie. But he'll be 30 this year, is injured now, has a fairly hefty contract, and has yet to consistently show the ability to be a difference-maker. Cloutier is just not a guy that is going to be what the Blues need their goalie to be at this point.
I'm not debating that Cloutier isn't a good fit with the Blues. They are the worst team in the league, so a decent #1 goalie such as Cloutier isn't going to help them, they may as just save money and play their youth. I'm simply defending Cloutier who I think gets a very bad rap around these boards. He's not the useless goalie that many make him out to be. Vancouver has a history of jumping on goalies and making them appear a lot worse then they are.

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12-31-2005, 12:33 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
IMO, there are a lot of impatient fans that patrol the Canucks' board that have no patience for a goaltender in the post-season, and I don't tottally blame them for that. Cloutier has become a very solid regular season goalie with the Canucks but his biggest question marks are his post-season play, and his durability towards the end of the season. Over the years he has improved his play in the post-season up until the '03/'04 season in which he looked solid against the Flames before succombing to injury. Cloutier is a talented goalie and IMO, he will one day become a solid playoff goalie if given the chance. He's just been extremely frustrating to Canucks fans and with the Canucks in a win-now mode, and with Cloutier still having some question marks around his post-season play, the Canucks need to move on IMO. His season ending injury this year pushed that over the top for many people.

Personally, right now, I wish Cloutier was back with the Canucks.



I'm not debating that Cloutier isn't a good fit with the Blues. They are the worst team in the league, so a decent #1 goalie such as Cloutier isn't going to help them, they may as just save money and play their youth. I'm simply defending Cloutier who I think gets a very bad rap around these boards. He's not the useless goalie that many make him out to be. Vancouver has a history of jumping on goalies and making them appear a lot worse then they are.
I can relate to all of those statements, sir... since the Blues and their fans have had a very similar love-hate relationship with their goaltending over the last few seasons.

One guy does well in the regular season (Roman Turek) and implodes in the playoffs. Another has a great rookie playoff year (Brent Johnson) and goes belly-up faster than a catfish in the Love Canal the following regular season.

I'm just solidly of the opinion that sticking with Bacashihua right now is the best course for the Blues to take in goal. He's young, talented, and most importantly, seems to be able to shake off a bad performance and come back with a good one. If he can develop some more consistency, he (and the Blues) will be fine.

P_B


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12-31-2005, 01:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Wally112pac
On the decline at 31?
Khabibulin was mentioned as a guy who *could* backstop a team to the Cup back in '97 and '98 - not many believed it, but there was a decent minority who did.

I've yet to hear anyone sat Cloutier is capable of backstopping a team to the Cup. And yeah - he's 30 in April. Cash is 23 right now. In 3 years, Cash will definitely be on the rise, he'll be a much better goaltender than he is right now. Cloutier? I don't see him getting *better*, he'll have to rehab the knee before he can get back to the point he was at this season - and that could take up to a year. IMO there's a better chance he's at least no better in 3 years than he was pre-injury, an ever better chance he's worse.

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01-01-2006, 01:44 AM
  #29
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How about one of Montreal's top prospects for Weight and Weinrich?

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01-01-2006, 09:02 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
How about one of Montreal's top prospects for Weight and Weinrich?
Name the prospect first. I also want a pair of draft picks - can be 1 pick in '06, 1 pick in '07, the first would be in the top 3 rounds, the 2nd would be a 6th/7th round pick.

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01-01-2006, 09:09 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues
Name the prospect first. I also want a pair of draft picks - can be 1 pick in '06, 1 pick in '07, the first would be in the top 3 rounds, the 2nd would be a 6th/7th round pick.
Kostitsyn

How is Weinrich playing this year?

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01-01-2006, 09:53 AM
  #32
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Weight is going to command more from both Edmonton and Calgary than Kostysisn and mid picks. He will not waive the NTC for Montreal. The player best suited to Montreal's needs is Brewer , who could be had for a good young forward and a #2 pick as has been discussed elsewhere.

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01-01-2006, 01:21 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by yentlmania
Weight is going to command more from both Edmonton and Calgary than Kostysisn and mid picks. He will not waive the NTC for Montreal. The player best suited to Montreal's needs is Brewer , who could be had for a good young forward and a #2 pick as has been discussed elsewhere.
Andy Strickland indicated previously that Weight won't waive the NTC to go back to Edmonton, I don't think Calgary is going to rate that highly on his list of places he'd waive the NTC to go back to either.

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01-01-2006, 01:35 PM
  #34
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an article today in Vancouver papers, Weight when asked specifically about Vancouver said he would love to play here.. I would love to get a legit first line centre... haven't had one since... well a long time.

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01-01-2006, 03:52 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
Andy Strickland indicated previously that Weight won't waive the NTC to go back to Edmonton, I don't think Calgary is going to rate that highly on his list of places he'd waive the NTC to go back to either.

Weight will only waive the NTC to go to a contender.
Neither Calgary nor edmonton look like they fit that description right now.

Vancouver does looks like a contender, but I think Pleau would look to deal out East(Ottawa or Philly) before dealing within the Western Conference.

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01-01-2006, 03:58 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
Vancouver does looks like a contender
With the goaltending they presently have, they certainly don't. And with Weight's $5.7 mil contract, the Canucks would use up any cap space they might have(assuming they dumped a contract on St.Louis), handcuffing their ability to upgrade their goaltending. Weight to Vancouver makes very little, if any sense. Personally, I'd rather Nonis look to Washington for a package of Kolzig/Witt before spending cap space on a minimal upgrade over Morrison.

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01-01-2006, 04:22 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
With the goaltending they presently have, they certainly don't. And with Weight's $5.7 mil contract, the Canucks would use up any cap space they might have(assuming they dumped a contract on St.Louis), handcuffing their ability to upgrade their goaltending. Weight to Vancouver makes very little, if any sense. Personally, I'd rather Nonis look to Washington for a package of Kolzig/Witt before spending cap space on a minimal upgrade over Morrison.
Auld has been doing a decent job so far. Their Tending will be good enough to make the PO's and supposedly Cloutier will be back by then so for now I still consider them a contender(if Auld's play tails off I might change my mind though). They might have some concerns about the backup status; and St. Louis can give them some help there(Lalime, Sanford(yes; in the right deal I would move Sanford) or Divis).

Personally, I think the rumor is total bunk(mostly because of Cloutier's involvement); but I can see a deal being worked out with Vancouver that involves Weight and Morrison.

For instance(totally hypothetical): Weight, Brewer and Lalime for Morrison and Jovanovski.

Weight is an upgrade on Morrison.
Jovo is an upgrade on Brewer.
If Lalime regains his confidence(playing behind a good Defensive team in Vancouver could be a good situation for him to regain his confidence) he would at least be a viable backup for Auld and would go FA in the off-season.
The Salaries would work out to be a slight addition for Vancouver but they would be able to afford it(if it were done right now it would be a 1.5 mil addition for Vancouver but that number would decrease the later the season goes).

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01-01-2006, 04:38 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
Auld has been doing a decent job so far. Their Tending will be good enough to make the PO's and supposedly Cloutier will be back by then so for now I still consider them a contender(if Auld's play tails off I might change my mind though). They might have some concerns about the backup status; and St. Louis can give them some help there(Lalime, Sanford(yes; in the right deal I would move Sanford) or Divis).
Auld has been decent in the sense that he's a back-up goalie that has been ok in the starter's spot. It's clearly obvious though that he is not ready to be a #1 goalie in the NHL on a top team. At the very least the Canucks will have to look to acquire a solid back-up that can split the time with Auld and give him a rest and also another option for Crawford to turn to if Auld stuggles(and he has thus far). No interest in Lalime, Sanford or Divis, the Canucks need a better option in net than those three.

Hopefully Cloutier will be back, but coming off knee surgery, I'm not going to expect much from him this season.


Quote:
Personally, I think the rumor is total bunk(mostly because of Cloutier's involvement); but I can see a deal being worked out with Vancouver that involves Weight and Morrison.

For instance(totally hypothetical): Weight, Brewer and Lalime for Morrison and Jovanovski.

Weight is an upgrade on Morrison.
Jovo is an upgrade on Brewer.
If Lalime regains his confidence(playing behind a good Defensive team in Vancouver could be a good situation for him to regain his confidence) he would at least be a viable backup for Auld and would go FA in the off-season.
The Salaries would work out to be a slight addition for Vancouver but they would be able to afford it(if it were done right now it would be a 1.5 mil addition for Vancouver but that number would decrease the later the season goes).
I wouldn't touch it from a Canucks' POV. Lalime's value is nil, he's wavier wire fodder at this point. I like the addition of Weight, but at his salary, no thanks. Maybe at the deadline for picks/prospects, but not at the cost of downgrading Jovo to Brewer. Personally, I really don't see any deals being worked out between Vancouver and St.Louis besides a deal at the deadline where St.Louis trades a veteran player to Vancouver for picks/prospects.

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01-01-2006, 04:59 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
Weight will only waive the NTC to go to a contender.
Neither Calgary nor edmonton look like they fit that description right now.

Vancouver does looks like a contender, but I think Pleau would look to deal out East(Ottawa or Philly) before dealing within the Western Conference.

I don't know if you have been watching lately, but Calgary is in first, Edmonton in second, and Vancouver in third. Calgary has beaten Vancouver, every game they played. I don't know where you get your ideas from.

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01-01-2006, 05:04 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
Weight will only waive the NTC to go to a contender.
Neither Calgary nor edmonton look like they fit that description right now.

Vancouver does looks like a contender, but I think Pleau would look to deal out East(Ottawa or Philly) before dealing within the Western Conference.
Vancouver a contender over Edmonton and Calgary - that is a good one (and it pains me to give Calgary that much credit). What is the Not's record against the NW division, do they even have three wins against their division ? add to that their amazing goaltending and only one line that can score consistantly, but that is right they are a contender

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01-01-2006, 05:07 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8haluschak
add to that their amazing goaltending and only one line that can score consistantly, but that is right they are a contender
do you even know who the Sedins are?


Last edited by Irish Blues: 01-01-2006 at 05:59 PM. Reason: no attacks, please
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01-01-2006, 06:40 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yentlmania
Weight is going to command more from both Edmonton and Calgary than Kostysisn and mid picks. He will not waive the NTC for Montreal. The player best suited to Montreal's needs is Brewer , who could be had for a good young forward and a #2 pick as has been discussed elsewhere.
You mean Riberio and #2 pick for Brewer?

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01-01-2006, 07:20 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueski
In the Backchecking on TSN.ca, they have an interesting rumor involving weight to vancouver.

TSN.ca

What do you all think? Morrison and Cloutier for Weight? To me it sounds like an awful lot.
I would pass on this, I am not a big Dan Cloutier fan.

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01-01-2006, 07:44 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
do you even know who the Sedins are?
Yes and that is the line that I am refering too until Carter does his disappearing act which, if I look at my watch here, is due to occur in about two weeks just around the midway point of the year.

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01-01-2006, 07:47 PM
  #45
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i read on another ottawa senators' message board that (according to hockeytraderumours.com) ottawa was dangling vermette and a prospect or draft pick for doug weight - personally, i'd hope something else was coming back for ottawa.

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01-01-2006, 07:55 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by BG
i read on another ottawa senators' message board that (according to hockeytraderumours.com) ottawa was dangling vermette and a prospect or draft pick for doug weight - personally, i'd hope something else was coming back for ottawa.
I don't know that I'm sold on Vermette - but I think most offers for Weight will take this form: a player and a prospect or a prospect and an upper-round draft pick. Then it's a question of who's offering what and taking the best offer on the table. AFA players coming back, who did you have in mind? (realize that who you want might up the asking price)

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01-01-2006, 08:19 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues
I don't know that I'm sold on Vermette - but I think most offers for Weight will take this form: a player and a prospect or a prospect and an upper-round draft pick. Then it's a question of who's offering what and taking the best offer on the table. AFA players coming back, who did you have in mind? (realize that who you want might up the asking price)
vermette is a bit of an enigma. he's playing on the fourth-line in ottawa with chris kelly and brian mcgrattan (both rookies and limited offensive ability, especially mcgrattan who is no more than a pugilist). nevertheless, vermette has still potted eight goals while seeing very limited five-on-five play (most of his ice-time is derived from killing penalties, which by the way, he's very effective at).

for whatever reason, coach murray has kept vermette on a very short leash. he is, howeber, very prone to making mistakes due to his inexperience, but he's starting to learn. when he can learn to marry his speed and offense better and utilize both with more effectiveness, he'll be great.

as for players coming back - i really like mcammond; i believe he's a ufa at season's end (just like weight). obviously this will drive the asking price up - i guess it depends on what st.louis and ottawa are willing to part with. though, any notion of acquiring mcammond could be shot down pretty quickly as muckler has interest in owen nolan (apparently)

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01-01-2006, 08:27 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8haluschak
Yes and that is the line that I am refering too until Carter does his disappearing act which, if I look at my watch here, is due to occur in about two weeks just around the midway point of the year.
Naslund and Bertuzzi haven't been scoring consistently? Since when? As for Carter, he's been consistent thus far this season, I see no reason for that to change, especially considering he's playing with the Sedins. All he basically has to do is be in front of the net and the Sedins will get him the puck. I see no problem whatsoever there.

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01-01-2006, 08:27 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BG
as for players coming back - i really like mcammond; i believe he's a ufa at season's end (just like weight). obviously this will drive the asking price up - i guess it depends on what st.louis and ottawa are willing to part with. though, any notion of acquiring mcammond could be shot down pretty quickly as muckler has interest in owen nolan (apparently)
Yes, McAmmond will be UFA - at $925K, he's cheap (which means teams short on cap space might still be able to squeeze him in since he'd cost $185K from the trade deadline on). I suspect he'll be dealt, I think he'll get a 4th/5th round pick unless two teams get into a bidding war for him - but even then, I don't see the price going higher than a 3rd or a solid prospect.

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01-01-2006, 08:38 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Naslund and Bertuzzi haven't been scoring consistently? Since when? As for Carter, he's been consistent thus far this season, I see no reason for that to change, especially considering he's playing with the Sedins. All he basically has to do is be in front of the net and the Sedins will get him the puck. I see no problem whatsoever there.
LAST 5 GAMES
Morrison: 1 G, 5 A, -3 (no points in last 3 games)
Naslund: 3 G, 4 A, -2
Bertuzzi: 1 G, 8 A, -3
H. Sedin: 1 G, 2 A, E
D. Sedin: 1 G, 3 A, -1
Carter: 2 G, 1 A, -2

LAST 10 GAMES
Morrison: 1 G, 8 A, -3
Naslund: 6 G, 5 A, -2
Bertuzzi: 4 G, 10 A, -4
H. Sedin: 2 G, 7 A, +4
D. Sedin: 3 G, 7 A, +2
Carter: 5 G, 4 A, +2

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