HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Leagues > The KHL
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

KHL Expansion Part VII

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-26-2016, 10:57 AM
  #101
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,187
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlus View Post
It is a poor tentative, but in this format is hard for the clubs to gain something from it.

I think 'the battle' is between clubs and federations. Even in KHL, they need to comply with what's the federation interest (developing players and NT), see the season schedule, the rule for foreign players, while the clubs will want more matches, bigger revenues. The thing is that as long as most of the KHL clubs are funded with money from the state, it is hard to act as an independent.

In Europe, could be different, as you don't have the state funding the teams and it's surprising for me that the clubs with an interest for higher revenues aren't doing something concrete to create such a competition.
Agree with russian part.

Bold part - it is about mentality, they "have stayed" in last century, too conservative, afraid of new ideas, dont have experiance with big business, dont want to fight with federation because would lose a job/have bad imagine in hockey community (look at guys behind Crowns and what fans/media think about them) etec. That being said, only KHL is a league/compeition which wants to "reform" euro club hockey.

vorky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2016, 10:58 AM
  #102
Slimmy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: GBG
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlus View Post
It is a poor tentative, but in this format is hard for the clubs to gain something from it.

I think 'the battle' is between clubs and federations. Even in KHL, they need to comply with what's the federation interest (developing players and NT), see the season schedule, the rule for foreign players, while the clubs will want more matches, bigger revenues. The thing is that as long as most of the KHL clubs are funded with money from the state, it is hard to act as an independent.

In Europe, could be different, as you don't have the state funding the teams and it's surprising for me that the clubs with an interest for higher revenues aren't doing something concrete to create such a competition.
If by something concrete you mean create a pan-european league, I have seen this mentioned by higher ups in big clubs in Europe as the end goal. However, they are very cautious and hurry slowly. And understandably so. Fans aren't overly receptive to the idea yet and the national leagues are still far apart in many aspects such as revenue and quality.

Slimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2016, 11:04 AM
  #103
Arlus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Agree with russian part.

Bold part - it is about mentality, they "have stayed" in last century, too conservative, afraid of new ideas, dont have experiance with big business, dont want to fight with federation because would lose a job/have bad imagine in hockey community (look at guys behind Crowns and what fans/media think about them) etec. That being said, only KHL is a league/compeition which wants to "reform" euro club hockey.
Yes and personally, I would like to see them as an independent organism, not under the influence of the Russian Federation. I think this will be beneficial for the long term and would have a better reflected impact in Europe.

Arlus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2016, 11:59 AM
  #104
frank16
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 40
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Agree with russian part.

Bold part - it is about mentality, they "have stayed" in last century, too conservative, afraid of new ideas, dont have experiance with big business, dont want to fight with federation because would lose a job/have bad imagine in hockey community (look at guys behind Crowns and what fans/media think about them) etec. That being said, only KHL is a league/compeition which wants to "reform" euro club hockey.
I have seen you mention this numerous times and am not quite sure what you mean. Please can you explain?

Some of the owners of Euro clubs are among the most wealthy people in the world and heavily involved in big business. The owners of Hamburg, Berlin & partially Djurgarden are AEG, a massive sports company with an owner (Anschutz) worth over $10 billion. Adler Mannheim are owned by Dietmar Hopp, the co-founder of SAP who is worth over $6 billion. Red Bull Salzburg and Red Bull Munich are owner by Red Bull co-founder Dietrich Mateschitz who is worth $12 billion. Tappara are part owned by a billionaire, HC lugano are owned by a billionaire, Nuremberg Ice Tigers are owned by Thomas Sabo himself etc. etc.

frank16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2016, 12:35 PM
  #105
Jussi
Registered User
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The List Of Jericho
Country: Finland
Posts: 57,652
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank16 View Post
I have seen you mention this numerous times and am not quite sure what you mean. Please can you explain?

Some of the owners of Euro clubs are among the most wealthy people in the world and heavily involved in big business. The owners of Hamburg, Berlin & partially Djurgarden are AEG, a massive sports company with an owner (Anschutz) worth over $10 billion. Adler Mannheim are owned by Dietmar Hopp, the co-founder of SAP who is worth over $6 billion. Red Bull Salzburg and Red Bull Munich are owner by Red Bull co-founder Dietrich Mateschitz who is worth $12 billion. Tappara are part owned by a billionaire, HC lugano are owned by a billionaire, Nuremberg Ice Tigers are owned by Thomas Sabo himself etc. etc.
His problem with those people is that they think too much of the bottom line and are not willing to take HUUUUGE losses, unlike the Russian "big business" people.

Jussi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2016, 03:05 PM
  #106
Exarz
Registered User
 
Exarz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Västerås
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,927
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanskog View Post
Oh well, I didn't know that they went bankrupt as well.
Saved by the bell, they declared earlier today that they're safe. Would've been bankrupt and most likely folded at the end of this month

Exarz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2016, 03:12 PM
  #107
Swedish KHL fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Västerås
Posts: 43
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavat Yulaev View Post
Could you tell us what did Sweden KHL fans like you expect from the Crowns?
To Salavat Yulaev

When rumors started to spread a few months ago about a team with base in Malmö it did sound interesting, but I did not have much hope at that point. Later on, when names like Bengt-Åke Gustafsson came up, i started to believe that this could be something. However, all the the time I keept in mind the opinion of the Swedish icehockey federation, and how they stopped AIK. A lot more “information” came up, and when they called to the press conference last Friday, I was convinced “this is it”. I looked forward to the press conference like child on waiting for Christmas.

And then the press conference started and Leif Carlsson starting to talk about boat trips with his grandfather and I started to realize that it all was a story based on dreams, rumours and speculations.

I do understand that the Crowns would have had problems to fill the Swedish arenas, but I think it was a good initiative. As it developed, they would have needed someone with more experience in the project.

Swedish KHL fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2016, 03:37 PM
  #108
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,187
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swedish KHL fan View Post
To Salavat Yulaev

When rumors started to spread a few months ago about a team with base in Malmö it did sound interesting, but I did not have much hope at that point. Later on, when names like Bengt-Åke Gustafsson came up, i started to believe that this could be something. However, all the the time I keept in mind the opinion of the Swedish icehockey federation, and how they stopped AIK. A lot more “information” came up, and when they called to the press conference last Friday, I was convinced “this is it”. I looked forward to the press conference like child on waiting for Christmas.

And then the press conference started and Leif Carlsson starting to talk about boat trips with his grandfather and I started to realize that it all was a story based on dreams, rumours and speculations.

I do understand that the Crowns would have had problems to fill the Swedish arenas, but I think it was a good initiative. As it developed, they would have needed someone with more experience in the project.
club´s PR attache on twitter about conference goals

@arturbliding 13m13 minutes ago
Youre totally on the spot. The presser was only to expose the swedish federation.

@arturbliding 12m12 minutes ago
However media did not attack the federation as expected. Weak Swedish sportsmedia. Now plan B.

vorky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2016, 03:49 PM
  #109
Glory
Registered User
 
Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,896
vCash: 500
If they wanted to turn the media against the swedish federation they probably should have come up with something that didn't make themselves look like complete morons.

"This was a little like watching paradise hotel. embarrassing/difficult to watch but you still keep on watching" Vallentina Wallner

"I'm out of here, I can't take this no more" Petter Rönnqvist

Glory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 01:56 AM
  #110
Alessandro Seren Rosso
Registered User
 
Alessandro Seren Rosso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Europe
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 5,292
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Alessandro Seren Rosso Send a message via MSN to Alessandro Seren Rosso
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlus View Post

In Europe, could be different, as you don't have the state funding the teams
Even NHL teams get absurd state-funded subsidies/facilitations... i'm sure that European teams enjoy them too...

__________________
Алексей Черепанов навсегда в наших сердцах
Alessandro Seren Rosso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 02:57 AM
  #111
hansomreiste
Registered User
 
hansomreiste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Kocaeli
Country: Turkey
Posts: 1,242
vCash: 500


Any news on them? They are ALMOST certainly in but I haven't heard anything official yet putting them in next season... Am I wrong? What happened?

hansomreiste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 03:04 AM
  #112
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,187
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansomreiste View Post


Any news on them? They are ALMOST certainly in but I haven't heard anything official yet putting them in next season... Am I wrong? What happened?
http://en.khl.ru/news/2016/03/17/242215.html

Quote:
In accordance with the protocol, in order to become a new KHL member from the next season, HC Red Star Kunlun needs to present financial guarantees by April 30th, 2016, comply with conditions imposed on clubs participants and adhere to the rules established by the KHL Regulations.
You wont hear anything this month. KHL BoD have usually a meeting during/after World Championship, so we have to wait. I guess we wont know official statement until WCH or even later.

vorky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 04:00 AM
  #113
Arlus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slimmy View Post
If by something concrete you mean create a pan-european league, I have seen this mentioned by higher ups in big clubs in Europe as the end goal. However, they are very cautious and hurry slowly. And understandably so. Fans aren't overly receptive to the idea yet and the national leagues are still far apart in many aspects such as revenue and quality.
I know about this idea, but if you want, that's another point of my previous comparison. Skelleftea could easily play home and away against Rogle (two matches) in SHL and rather than playing them 4 times, they could be against Karpat (to use them as an example).

Starting from scrtach a 'pan-european' league is not so easy but if they want to move forward, they could start with something like regional leagues.

Arlus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 04:06 AM
  #114
Arlus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
http://en.khl.ru/news/2016/03/17/242215.html



You wont hear anything this month. KHL BoD have usually a meeting during/after World Championship, so we have to wait. I guess we wont know official statement until WCH or even later.
This is a thing that should be rectified by the league.

If you have expansion teams you should communicate this with months in advance, not saying that we are waiting for the papers, but then not being able to provide anything. The season schedule is another aspect that should be communicated much earlier than last summer and most probably this year.

Arlus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 04:25 AM
  #115
Slimmy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: GBG
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlus View Post
I know about this idea, but if you want, that's another point of my previous comparison. Skelleftea could easily play home and away against Rogle (two matches) in SHL and rather than playing them 4 times, they could be against Karpat (to use them as an example).

Starting from scrtach a 'pan-european' league is not so easy but if they want to move forward, they could start with something like regional leagues.
They had rather serious talks about having a joint SHL - Liiga playoffs. The idea fell appart when it came to the nitty gritty. The bottom line was, Swedish clubs were very reluctant to share sponsors and TV fees with their Finnish counterparts. They have a comfortable spot as it is in the SHL and there was no real monetary incentive. At least not in the near future. There are risks involved for all involved and so a better solution was to start something from scratch with new sponsors, new TV deals and a format that would not risk what the clubs already had. In comes the CHL.

Slimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 04:59 AM
  #116
Slimmy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: GBG
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
club´s PR attache on twitter about conference goals

@arturbliding 13m13 minutes ago
Youre totally on the spot. The presser was only to expose the swedish federation.

@arturbliding 12m12 minutes ago
However media did not attack the federation as expected. Weak Swedish sportsmedia. Now plan B.
It was clear to anyone paying attention that they had come to a dead end. The only option left was to publicly chastice the Swedish Hockey Fed in hopes that it could pressure them into giving their consent to this KHL venture.
Why else would they hold a presser when there was nothing to announce?

Slimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 05:09 AM
  #117
Swedish KHL fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Västerås
Posts: 43
vCash: 500
It seems like Leif R Carlsson can not accept that the game is over:

http://www.op.se/ishockey/khl/crowns...rskningsarbete

Swedish KHL fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 05:28 AM
  #118
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,187
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swedish KHL fan View Post
It seems like Leif R Carlsson can not accept that the game is over:

http://www.op.se/ishockey/khl/crowns...rskningsarbete
can you translate it? I mean key points of interview, thx

Edit: I used google translate and if I get it, Carlsson tried to persuade established clubs (name SSK) to consider KHL joining, was not successful, so only option is to create new club. I dont understand (bad translation) the part about meeting with SIHA President - did President refuse to meet with Carlsson or they plan to meet in near future?


Last edited by vorky: 04-27-2016 at 06:13 AM.
vorky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 06:33 AM
  #119
Salavat Yulaev
Registered User
 
Salavat Yulaev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Almaty
Country: Kazakhstan
Posts: 779
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swedish KHL fan View Post
To Salavat Yulaev

When rumors started to spread a few months ago about a team with base in Malmö it did sound interesting, but I did not have much hope at that point. Later on, when names like Bengt-Åke Gustafsson came up, i started to believe that this could be something. However, all the the time I keept in mind the opinion of the Swedish icehockey federation, and how they stopped AIK. A lot more “information” came up, and when they called to the press conference last Friday, I was convinced “this is it”. I looked forward to the press conference like child on waiting for Christmas.

And then the press conference started and Leif Carlsson starting to talk about boat trips with his grandfather and I started to realize that it all was a story based on dreams, rumours and speculations.

I do understand that the Crowns would have had problems to fill the Swedish arenas, but I think it was a good initiative. As it developed, they would have needed someone with more experience in the project.
Thanks!

Salavat Yulaev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 08:10 AM
  #120
bordshockeypampen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 68
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
can you translate it? I mean key points of interview, thx

Edit: I used google translate and if I get it, Carlsson tried to persuade established clubs (name SSK) to consider KHL joining, was not successful, so only option is to create new club. I dont understand (bad translation) the part about meeting with SIHA President - did President refuse to meet with Carlsson or they plan to meet in near future?
Translation from the article:
Quote:
- The federation does not have to say yes, they just have to not say no, says Leif R Carlsson, who had contact by mail with the federations's president, Anders Larsson. But they have not managed to get a meeting with the federation.
- I had a meeting scheduled with Larsson, but he cancelled it, says Leif.

bordshockeypampen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 08:25 AM
  #121
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,187
vCash: 500
thx, bordshockeypampen.

vorky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 09:03 AM
  #122
Slimmy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: GBG
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swedish KHL fan View Post
It seems like Leif R Carlsson can not accept that the game is over:

http://www.op.se/ishockey/khl/crowns...rskningsarbete
Just from the presser and this interview this Leif Carlsson character comes off as a real loser.

Slimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2016, 09:52 AM
  #123
Jussi
Registered User
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The List Of Jericho
Country: Finland
Posts: 57,652
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro Seren Rosso View Post
Even NHL teams get absurd state-funded subsidies/facilitations... i'm sure that European teams enjoy them too...
Nope. A state is not government. Different set up in Europe.

Jussi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-28-2016, 10:43 AM
  #124
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,187
vCash: 500
Sportfakt´s source: Torbjörn Törnqvist is main investor of #Crowns.

Russian website sportfakt (dont know how serious the site is) claims that Torbjörn Törnqvist is behind Crowns. He is former partner of Timchenko in Gunvor company, he bought Timchenko´s share one day before sanctions to Timchenko. Idea to have KHL team was agreed by both Timchenko&Törnqvist, so we can take it as done deal, first choice was established club (AIK???? - at Crowns presser was said that KHL invited AIK in summer 2015), but SIHA´s position was negative so Timchenko&Törnqvist decided to create new club for KHL.

This story makes sense. If the story is true then Crowns project is more serious than it looked at presser. We have to wait how it will develop in near future.

vorky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-28-2016, 11:34 AM
  #125
Go Donbass
Registered User
 
Go Donbass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 418
vCash: 500
The new Krilia Sovetov entry in the MHL has a major sponsor and they look very serious about having a team in the KHL in 3 years. I wonder if this team will merge with Vityaz. I'm not an anti-Vityaz guy, but I really don't know what keeps them afloat. Their arena is mostly empty, and I have never seen any sponsor's on their jerseys. A merger with Krilia Sovetov would probably make the most sense for the league and for the health of all the teams in the Moscow area.

Go Donbass is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.