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Are there any rules against this? (UFA question)

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01-02-2006, 02:02 PM
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Varius
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Are there any rules against this? (UFA question)

Let's by the deadline a team is clearly out of the playoff picture. Maybe they have 1-2 UFAs who could attract something from teams who are heading after the Cup.

Let's say the player likes the team, town, whatever though. Maybe the Player/GM could come to a deal like:

The player gets traded to a playoff-bound team for probably picks/prospects. In the summer though, he agrees "not publicly / handshake kinda way" to re-sign with his former team.

The team gets free talent for basically a short-term loss of their player.

The player gets to play in the Playoffs and then will return to his team for next season.

Does the NHL have any rules against such plans? Like a player cannot re-sign with a team he was traded off of ? Just curious.

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01-02-2006, 02:21 PM
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CREW99AW
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I can't think of a rule against a traded player,going back to his old team as a ufa.

the team trading him away,would be running the risk that the player would like it on the playoff contender.Handshake or not,he could choose to stick with his new team,get other offers on the ufa market that would drive up his price.

When the Rangers dealt Leetch to Toronto,plenty of homers in the NY media were saying he'd be back as a ufa.Didn't happen.

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01-02-2006, 02:26 PM
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BostonBob
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Unless it is a new rule then I don't think so. I'm sure that it has happened a few times before - one time was when Carolina traded Glen Wesley to Toronto ( for a 2004 2nd Round pick ) in 2003 and then Wesley resigned with Carolina after the season ended.

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01-02-2006, 02:57 PM
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mrpither
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i'm always puzzled why lemieux never did anything like that the recent seasons that he was healthy near the end but outta the playoffs. he could have really helped stock the pens with young talent and get himself some more records or hardware. maybe the part owner thing causes issues there...

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01-02-2006, 04:25 PM
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McDonald19
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Theres no rule against this.

The only thing is most of the time the player wants to test the UFA market before going back to the team he has spent most of his career with.

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01-02-2006, 04:35 PM
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BronxBruin
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There is some rule (or at least there was...not sure if it still exists under the new CBA) having to do with a player being traded before the waiver draft not being able to play with the team that traded him for a year. If I remember correctly, this happened with Dean McAmmond and the Flames/Avs a few years ago.
Does anyone remember the exact details?

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01-02-2006, 04:42 PM
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Irish Blues
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BronxBruin
There is some rule (or at least there was...not sure if it still exists under the new CBA) having to do with a player being traded before the waiver draft not being able to play with the team that traded him for a year. If I remember correctly, this happened with Dean McAmmond and the Flames/Avs a few years ago.
Does anyone remember the exact details?
McAmmond was with Calgary - in the waiver draft, he was claimed by Colorado. At that point, he was ineligible to play for Calgary at any point for the rest of that year.

At or close to the trade deadline, Calgary signs off on a deal to reacquire McAmmond - then realizes that he's ineligible to play with the Flames for the remainder of the season.

There was a similar rule in effect for RFA's who signed an offer sheet - if his team matched, they couldn't trade the player for one year. It was put into effect after Marty McSorley got an offer sheet from the Blues, the Kings matched it, and traded McSorley to Pittsburgh for Tomas Sandstrom before the start of the regular season - then traded Sandstrom back to Pittsburgh late in the season to get McSorley back. (Explains why the Rangers tried to pluck Joe Sakic circa 1997 with a 3-year, $21 million offer sheet - paying $15 million the 1st year.)

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01-02-2006, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpither
i'm always puzzled why lemieux never did anything like that the recent seasons that he was healthy near the end but outta the playoffs. he could have really helped stock the pens with young talent and get himself some more records or hardware. maybe the part owner thing causes issues there...
Yeah, his ownership status doesn't allow it.

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01-02-2006, 05:15 PM
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There is no rule against it, but invariably when players who like their team and the area get traded away from their team, they bear grudges and the last thing on their minds is to go back to the team that sold them out.

In theory a guy could reach informal agreement with his team to go elsewhere and then return a few months later, to improve the team and then come back, but players don't think like this. The prevailing thought process is that they're being jerked around, jostling their families and their lives all so that the team can gain an extra pick or two... players get traded all the time and it's just business, but the player doesn't have to like it. They usually don't.

This kind of scenario sounds kind of appealing to a fan, but it doesn't take into account a player's aversion to being treated like chattel.

There's no rule against it, but it doesn't happen. Pretty much ever. When players do re-sign with teams in similar switches, it's not part of any concerted plan... it just tends to work out that way. Best offer, term, whatever coming from that team at the time.

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01-02-2006, 06:24 PM
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FerrisRox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
McAmmond was with Calgary - in the waiver draft, he was claimed by Colorado. At that point, he was ineligible to play for Calgary at any point for the rest of that year.
This is incorrect. McAmmond was traded to the Colorado Avalanche as part of the package that brought Chris Drury to Calgary.

There are a few recent examples of players doing exactly what the original poster discussed.

Valeri Bure was dealt to the Blues by Florida only to resign with the Panthers againt that summer. At the deadline they traded him again, this time to Dallas.

The Coyotes traded Brian Savage to St. Louis on the condition they would claim him when the Blues waived him that summer. They did, then bought him out.

Geoff Sanderson was traded to the Canucks by the Blue Jackets, but after the playoffs rejoined Columbus.

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01-02-2006, 08:05 PM
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Varius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588
There is no rule against it, but invariably when players who like their team and the area get traded away from their team, they bear grudges and the last thing on their minds is to go back to the team that sold them out.

In theory a guy could reach informal agreement with his team to go elsewhere and then return a few months later, to improve the team and then come back, but players don't think like this. The prevailing thought process is that they're being jerked around, jostling their families and their lives all so that the team can gain an extra pick or two... players get traded all the time and it's just business, but the player doesn't have to like it. They usually don't.

This kind of scenario sounds kind of appealing to a fan, but it doesn't take into account a player's aversion to being treated like chattel.

There's no rule against it, but it doesn't happen. Pretty much ever. When players do re-sign with teams in similar switches, it's not part of any concerted plan... it just tends to work out that way. Best offer, term, whatever coming from that team at the time.

I think in this possible case though, the player might be more receptive to the idea of being traded for one major reason: he gets some shot at the playoffs and Cup, versus having absolutely NO shot.

I'd think if he expects it to only be short-term, he wouldn't move his family.

Of course the player can probably worry the GM could screw him and not resign him in the offseason...the same way the team would risk that he won't resign with them.

Anyhow was just something to ponder

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01-02-2006, 08:05 PM
  #12
Varius
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Thanks to all the rest of you for your answers

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01-02-2006, 09:08 PM
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SuburbanRhythm
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Penguins have done this twice with Marc Bergevin. Once to Tampa Bay (2002?) and re-signed him in the summer. Then moved him to Vancouver. Both times at the trade deadline, for low round picks (I believe the TB deal was like a 9th round pick).

Not a star player obviously, but, another example that it does happen.

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