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Will Jay Boumeester = Chris Pronger

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01-01-2006, 09:21 PM
  #1
Bruinaholic
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Will Jay Boumeester = Chris Pronger

JB just turned 22 a week before opening nite and is now in his 3rd season(4th if u count the lockout season) and hasnt been the star Dmen that so many people predicted hed be since he was 16.

Pronger broke in a little bit older(had just turn 20) and actually had some good looking numbers albeit in a differnt NHL
Rookie year age 20 81gp 5g 25ast 30pts -3 113Pims
If you take Boumeesters forst 2 NHL seasons you only get
6g 30ast 36pts -44 44Pims in 143gp

Jay atleast numbers wise seems to be playing better this year w/ 15pts(all ast) after the his 41st game tonite but not on the pace that Pronger was heading towards that got him an MVP,a Norris and a few All Star appearences.

I understand Dmen take time to develope and JB could very well be a 15g 40ast Dmen in the league in the next few years, but do you see it happening?

I personally have seen next to nothing of Boumeester unfortunately so maybe me going off numbers isnt fair because of the weak team FLA has been since he broke into the league in 02-03.

Edit- should be noted that Boumeester is getting 24+ mins a game which says he gets #1 dmen like minutes

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01-01-2006, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruinaholic
JB just turned 22 a week before opening nite and is now in his 3rd season(4th if u count the lockout season) and hasnt been the star Dmen that so many people predicted hed be since he was 16.

Pronger broke in a little bit older(had just turn 20) and actually had some good looking numbers albeit in a differnt NHL
Rookie year age 20 81gp 5g 25ast 30pts -3 113Pims
If you take Boumeesters forst 2 NHL seasons you only get
6g 30ast 36pts -44 44Pims in 143gp

Jay atleast numbers wise seems to be playing better this year w/ 15pts(all ast) after the his 41st game tonite but not on the pace that Pronger was heading towards that got him an MVP,a Norris and a few All Star appearences.

I understand Dmen take time to develope and JB could very well be a 15g 40ast Dmen in the league in the next few years, but do you see it happening?

I personally have seen next to nothing of Boumeester unfortunately so maybe me going off numbers isnt fair because of the weak team FLA has been since he broke into the league in 02-03.

Bouwmeester has been way over his head in the past in Florida. Panthers brass basically threw him to the dogs. It is a testament to Bouwmeester's pure talent that he has started to improve his play a bit, because he has basically no one to learn from on the roster.

I believe J-Bo in a different situation would be on his way to challenging for a Norris in a few years. I haven't seen many 6'4'' human beings who can skate that way.

This isn't to say he can't become a dominant defenseman for Florida. He has that pure talent level. He's just not there yet.

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01-01-2006, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TransportedUpstater
Bouwmeester has been way over his head in the past in Florida. Panthers brass basically threw him to the dogs. It is a testament to Bouwmeester's pure talent that he has started to improve his play a bit, because he has basically no one to learn from on the roster.

I believe J-Bo in a different situation would be on his way to challenging for a Norris in a few years. I haven't seen many 6'4'' human beings who can skate that way.

This isn't to say he can't become a dominant defenseman for Florida. He has that pure talent level. He's just not there yet.
So if he were to get send to Boston and was paired up w/ Brian Leetch for a year or 2 maybe hed get that push to be a perrenial(sp) Norris canidate in the future?

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01-01-2006, 09:41 PM
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no

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Old
01-01-2006, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruinaholic
So if he were to get send to Boston and was paired up w/ Brian Leetch for a year or 2 maybe hed get that push to be a perrenial(sp) Norris canidate in the future?
Thanks for belittling my post, and misunderstanding it at the same time. It's much appreciated.

What I meant to say, and possibly said incorrectly, is that Bouwmeester's younger years would have been much different on a different team. He's a guy who still has tremendous upside and has by no means reached his potential.

However, at this point, there are numerous 22-and under defensemen I'd rather have than he, one being a guy picked 4th in J-Bo's draft class...

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01-01-2006, 10:19 PM
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Jay Bouwmeester isn't mean enough to become a Chris Pronger type of defenseman. Joni Pitkanen has that mean streak and will be an elite defensemen first.

But I think Bouwmeester is well overdue for some respect. He is supremely talented and will develop into a #1 defenseman. Pronger had a revival in St. Louis and picked up his game in the most incredibly way. Can Bouwmeester do it?

I think he can, but let's not forget. Chris Pronger didn't do it all by himself. Pronger only dramatically became an elite defenseman after playing with Al MacInnis, a Norris trophy winner.

If Bouwmeester plays like a true Norris candidate like Lidstrom or Niedermayer, it may give him more confidence, more gusto to take those extraordinary chances only elite defensemen take. If Florida doesn't pair him up with another star, the progress may be slower as he won't be as free to truly learn the game since he would be burdened with the responsibility of being the #1 defenseman in Florida. Bouwmeester will struggle to find his true identity in that case.

Keenan should definitely try to sign a big UFA defenseman this off-season. It would help Bouwmeester tremondously.

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01-01-2006, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Jay Bouwmeester isn't mean enough to become a Chris Pronger type of defenseman. Joni Pitkanen has that mean streak and will be an elite defensemen first.

But I think Bouwmeester is well overdue for some respect. He is supremely talented and will develop into a #1 defenseman. Pronger had a revival in St. Louis and picked up his game in the most incredibly way. Can Bouwmeester do it?

I think he can, but let's not forget. Chris Pronger didn't do it all by himself. Pronger only dramatically become an elite defenseman after playing with Al MacInnis, a Norris trophy winner.

If Bouwmeester plays like a true Norris candidate like Lidstrom or Niedermayer, it may give him more confidence, more gusto to take those extraordinary chances only elite defensemen take. If Florida doesn't pair him up with another star, the progress may be slower and Bouwmeester will struggle to find his true identity.

Keenan should definitely try to sign a big UFA defenseman this off-season. It would help Bouwmeester tremondously.


Thank god someone understood my point, and said it better than I

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01-01-2006, 10:22 PM
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This question was a good one three years ago.

Now? The answer is a clear 'NO'.

But he could still become a Top-10 d-man some season, in the future, certainly a Top-25 d-man is possible for him.

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01-01-2006, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TransportedUpstater
Thank god someone understood my point, and said it better than I
Thanks. I honestly think Florida will have a great defensive corps in the future. If they acquire a vet like Foote for the future, it will be a great catalyst for young stars like Bouwmeester, Krajicek et al. Van Ryn is a great #2 defenseman and is well underrated. However, Van Ryn doesn't have star potential and cannot help Bouwmeester develop into that elite defenseman.

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01-01-2006, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Thanks. I honestly think Florida will have a great defensive corps in the future. If they acquire a vet like Foote for the future, it will be a great catalyst for young stars like Bouwmeester, Krajicek et al. Van Ryn is a great #2 defenseman and is well underrated. However, Van Ryn doesn't have star potential and cannot help Bouwmeester develop into that elite defenseman.

I'm not a Panther fan, but I agree they have some building blocks there. They deperately need a veteran on that blueline though. They have some steadying influences at forward to help guide guys like Horton (a star in waiting IMO), but one on the blueline could be very beneficial.

I remember a trade proposal (I forgot who it involved) that involved Florida trading Horton, Van Ryn and Bouwmeester, and I laughed my head off. That would be mortgaging the Panthers' future right there.

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01-01-2006, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Thanks. I honestly think Florida will have a great defensive corps in the future. If they acquire a vet like Foote for the future, it will be a great catalyst for young stars like Bouwmeester, Krajicek et al. Van Ryn is a great #2 defenseman and is well underrated. However, Van Ryn doesn't have star potential and cannot help Bouwmeester develop into that elite defenseman.
I said in the preseason, the best money the Panthers could have spent this past summer, after the lockout, was on Foote, instead of Nieuwendyk and Roberts. That's not to say that the old grey hairs were bad signings, but what Foote would have brought to the defense would have done more for the future of the Panthers in terms of Bouwmeester, Krajicek, and to an extent Luongo in terms of development. Panthers still need to find a defenseman about the same age as Bouwmeester that plays a stay-at-home style that'll enable Bouw to develop the offensive game people criticize him for lacking and can be part of "the core". But I don't see these kids stayin together much longer than their mid to late twenties.

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01-01-2006, 11:08 PM
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Bouwmeester has been the Panthers best Dman this year, by far. He logs more ice time than any other player on the team, and has begun to develop a physical edge to himself. Ive had concerns about his play in the past, but Ive been very happy with his play this season. His offensive numbers arent there, but his play certainly is. He has the ability to carry the puck through the zones and create scoring opportunites for he and his teammates, and his numbers are only going to grow as he and his confidence does.

I dont believe his is going to have that physical presence that Pronger has, but I do believe he is going to be a top five defenseman in the future. I do agree with the posts here that state that he needs to be paired with a solid defenseman, not a Sean Hill. Hill has played solid at times, but Bouwmeester's offensive play/statistics have suffered cause he's had to cover Hill's mistakes quite often.

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01-02-2006, 12:01 AM
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J Bo is more likely to become a Chris Therien than a Chris Pronger.

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01-02-2006, 12:08 AM
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what was up with his poor AHL season in 04-05 ?

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01-02-2006, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
J Bo is more likely to become a Chris Therien than a Chris Pronger.
That's not possible, considering Bouwmeester is already much better than Chris Therien.

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01-02-2006, 03:28 AM
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Well most traffic cones can say the same.

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01-02-2006, 03:41 AM
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I don't think Jay Bouwmeester has the mean streak the "want" to become an elite defenseman the way Pronger has. But there are valid points made, Pronger started out that way.

I'm not entirely sure... I think Bouwmeester needs someone to light a fire under his *** to get him to the next level, and I'm not sure anyone on the Panthers or Mike Keenan can do it. But... he's got alot of potential, that's for sure.

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01-02-2006, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
That's not possible, considering Bouwmeester is already much better than Chris Therien.
I take it you didnt get sarcasm detector for christmas?

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01-02-2006, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
I take it you didnt get sarcasm detector for christmas?
Actually, I did. I just didn't get the "incredibly stupid jokes" detector.

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01-02-2006, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Brad
Actually, I did. I just didn't get the "incredibly stupid jokes" detector.
Did you get that on the way back from the sense of humour bypass?

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01-02-2006, 08:59 AM
  #21
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Jay's two biggest obstacles to overcome with the Panthers have been the lack of an experienced defenseman to help teach him what it takes to be successful in the NHL and the players with whom he's been paired, Biron and Hill most notably. He spends so much time trying to clean up Hill's turnovers and missed checks. I think he has the desire and he can play with an edge. IMO what he's lacking is confidence.

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01-02-2006, 10:44 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruinaholic
Will Jay Boumeester = Chris Pronger
Don't know about Bouwmeester, but Erik Johnson = Chris Pronger

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01-02-2006, 11:28 AM
  #23
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Bouwmeester has a pretty real chance of becoming a top #5 dman in the league in the next 2/3 years, and he still has that potential to be the next Pronger. IMO he will end up being a great #1 dman who is always pretty underated. Defensively he is very good, and usually people forget that when talking about Bouwmeester.
Offensively he has all the tools, but he might never be what he was hoped to be offensively. He will atleast be a solid 40pt dman every year and possibly better.
If he can get a good dman to play alongside it could really help him. I dont understand why Van Ryn hasnt played alongside him this year as althought their two styles are pretty similar, anything is better than Hill.

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01-02-2006, 11:52 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17ster
I dont understand why Van Ryn hasnt played alongside him this year as althought their two styles are pretty similar, anything is better than Hill.
Because its next to impossible to expect your top two defensemen to play 40+ minutes a night while the other four you're still worried about havin play more than 10 minutes each due to defensive shortcomings. Split Bouw and Van Ryn up and stick each with a subpar defneseman, and you have a better shot that they'll hopefully make the others look serviceable.

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01-02-2006, 11:55 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClashCitiRockr
Because its next to impossible to expect your top two defensemen to play 40+ minutes a night while the other four you're still worried about havin play more than 10 minutes each due to defensive shortcomings. Split Bouw and Van Ryn up and stick each with a subpar defneseman, and you have a better shot that they'll hopefully make the others look serviceable.
Completely agree with you on this Clash.

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