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SJ/Cap proposal

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Old
10-19-2003, 01:49 PM
  #1
mkc2
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SJ/Cap proposal

To SJ:
Lang and a mid round draft pick

To Wash:
K. McLaren and Boyes

Why should the Cap do it:
The Cap needs a d-man very very very badly. McLaren should upgrade their defense. The Cap is also looking to drop some salaries and is trying to trade one of its high pay forwards. Also Boyes is a young player to have.

Why should SJ do it:
McLaren has a average season so far...not too good not too bad. By trading him, the three young d-man, R. Davison, T. Preissing and
C Ehrhoff can have a bigger role, that should help them develop. Espeacial C Ehrhoff, he should be something spiecal. Lang is a proven player and have good offensive skills.

I think this is a win win situation for both teams.
What do you guys think.

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Old
10-19-2003, 01:53 PM
  #2
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Lang is good, but no thanks from the Shark POV

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Old
10-19-2003, 02:05 PM
  #3
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I don't like it either from an objective stand point if I was the sharks I would ask for Sutherby+Grier+2nd for that package ur asking for maybe even more considering how desperate their defense issue is. That trade would leave the Sharks strong down the center (Marleau/Damphousse/Ricci/Sutherby(Sutherby can fill 2nd or 3rd when u trade or retire Ricci or Vinny) and gives u one of the best checking lines in the league (Thorton-Ricci-Grier).

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Old
10-19-2003, 02:19 PM
  #4
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1. in your post you admit that mclaren is average. not much of a compliment, yet you want the capitals to trade their leading scorer for an average defenseman.
2. the capitals project sutherby as a team captain. they are not going to trade him. but, the idea of trading sutherby, a first round choice that is paying off, and grier, 15 goals and a 2nd round choice for an average defenseman is kind of a hoot.

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Old
10-19-2003, 02:30 PM
  #5
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"To SJ:
Lang and a mid round draft pick

To Wash:
K. McLaren and Boyes"

Deal.

Lang's having a good first 10 games or so, so his value is high. The Caps are in desperate need of a no-nonsense, decent stay-at-home guy. Boyes may still have up-side. The Caps save money, as well.

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Old
10-19-2003, 02:31 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
1. in your post you admit that mclaren is average. not much of a compliment, yet you want the capitals to trade their leading scorer for an average defenseman.
2. the capitals project sutherby as a team captain. they are not going to trade him. but, the idea of trading sutherby, a first round choice that is paying off, and grier, 15 goals and a 2nd round choice for an average defenseman is kind of a hoot.

McLaren is not an average dman. He is well above average physical dman. His downside is the injury history and sometimes inconsistent play. But, he would easily be the number 2 dman in Washington. The above deal has the Caps getting an impact player without giving up an impact player. For that reason, San Jose would be unlikely to go for it.

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Old
10-19-2003, 02:34 PM
  #7
FacelessButcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
2. the capitals project sutherby as a team captain. they are not going to trade him. but, the idea of trading sutherby, a first round choice that is paying off, and grier, 15 goals and a 2nd round choice for an average defenseman is kind of a hoot.
Um what first round pick? its Sutherby(who is awesome)+ Grier(excellent third line checker) +2nd round pick
for a good top 4 d-man and a first round pick in 2000 in Boyes

and I think if Caps want a defense man they should be more then willing to take it up the a$$ because everyone knows ur not gonna win with ur current setup, u will and should be forced into a lob-sided deal its just that simple.

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10-19-2003, 02:35 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall
"To SJ:
Lang and a mid round draft pick

To Wash:
K. McLaren and Boyes"

Deal.

Lang's having a good first 10 games or so, so his value is high. The Caps are in despaerate need of a no-nonsens, decent stay-at-home guy. Boyes may still have up-side. The Caps save money, as well.
It doesn't matter how good Lang's first 10 games are. His contract is still in the way and so his trade value is limited at best.

There is no way San Jose would do this.

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Old
10-19-2003, 02:36 PM
  #9
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"It doesn't matter how good Lang's first 10 games are. His contract is still in the way and so his trade value is limited at best.

There is no way San Jose would do this."

Agreed. Why do you think I agreed to the deal in the first place? Big steal for the Caps.

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Old
10-19-2003, 02:43 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall
"It doesn't matter how good Lang's first 10 games are. His contract is still in the way and so his trade value is limited at best.

There is no way San Jose would do this."

Agreed. Why do you think I agreed to the deal in the first place? Big steal for the Caps.

Ok. I apologize for misunderstanding.

I shoudl have recongized that because you have generally shown a good awareness of the role that NHL economics plays in the trade market.

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Old
10-19-2003, 03:11 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkc2
Why should SJ do it:
McLaren has a average season so far...not too good not too bad. By trading him, the three young d-man, R. Davison, T. Preissing and
C Ehrhoff can have a bigger role, that should help them develop. Espeacial C Ehrhoff, he should be something spiecal. Lang is a proven player and have good offensive skills.

I think this is a win win situation for both teams.
What do you guys think.
Big fat no from the SJ camp. Two major factors you haven't taken into account: the price they paid for McLaren and more importantly, how much Lang makes. Plus, if SJ even got Lang, his impact would be minimal. At least it wouldn't be big enough to justify the means.

And your point about getting the young three more defensive is quite moot. Ehrhoff already plays over 20 minutes per game, Preissing at about 20 per game. And Davison, who's around 14 minutes per, doesn't need much more. His offensive upside is limited as is his role. Actually, if you look close enough, both Ehrhoff and Preissing BOTH average more than McLaren in icetime. Hmf, who'da thunkt.

Plus valuewise Washington comes out on top.

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10-19-2003, 03:34 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane
And your point about getting the young three more defensive is quite moot. Ehrhoff already plays over 20 minutes per game, Preissing at about 20 per game. And Davison, who's around 14 minutes per, doesn't need much more. His offensive upside is limited as is his role. Actually, if you look close enough, both Ehrhoff and Preissing BOTH average more than McLaren in icetime. Hmf, who'da thunkt.

Plus valuewise Washington comes out on top.

It is true that Ehrhoff average 24 mn, but that was only for two games. He has been a scatch ever since. By the time Stuart comes back, only one of the three will play every night.(Assuming no deal) So what you are saying is wrong.

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Old
10-19-2003, 03:46 PM
  #13
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"Ok. I apologize for misunderstanding.

I shoudl have recongized that because you have generally shown a good awareness of the role that NHL economics plays in the trade market.
"

No worries at all. As pretty as text is sometimes, it's still hard for inflections to come through. I appreciate the comment, btw. Very kind of you.

And you couldn't be more correct: Salaries are basicaly a 'player' in trades these days. They add no noticable statisttcs, they score no goals, but they are an anchor around the franchise.

Example: Jagr's contract (and some say the deal for him) was negotiated outside of GM George McPhee. I like Ted Leonsis very much, in the fact that he is trying to turn around a team with no identity, but I think the Jagr extension is such an anchor around the francises' neck. Lang, who has been playing very well so far (so far), is another.

Dark days to be a Caps fan, my friend. Dark days.

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Old
10-19-2003, 03:53 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Um what first round pick? its Sutherby(who is awesome)+ Grier(excellent third line checker) +2nd round pick
for a good top 4 d-man and a first round pick in 2000 in Boyes

and I think if Caps want a defense man they should be more then willing to take it up the a$$ because everyone knows ur not gonna win with ur current setup, u will and should be forced into a lob-sided deal its just that simple.
I think the Caps management has decided that...
A. they are not going to "take it up the a$$" to get a defenseman.
they have said they were going to give the bargain priced players a chance to show they belong. many nhl teams are doing that with the new salary structure coming. any player that is cheap that proves he can play at the nhl level is a pricey veteran that they don't need to hire.
b. mcphee has also indicated that if the young guys leave holes in the lineup that there will be a large number of veteran players playing on one year contracts that will be available at a buyers market price.

there are a record number of nhl players in the last year of their deals or on one year deals. so that strategy makes sense. if true, it makes taking up the a$$ unnecessary.

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Old
10-19-2003, 04:24 PM
  #15
FacelessButcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
I think the Caps management has decided that...
A. they are not going to "take it up the a$$" to get a defenseman.
they have said they were going to give the bargain priced players a chance to show they belong. many nhl teams are doing that with the new salary structure coming. any player that is cheap that proves he can play at the nhl level is a pricey veteran that they don't need to hire.
b. mcphee has also indicated that if the young guys leave holes in the lineup that there will be a large number of veteran players playing on one year contracts that will be available at a buyers market price.

there are a record number of nhl players in the last year of their deals or on one year deals. so that strategy makes sense. if true, it makes taking up the a$$ unnecessary.
Well yes its true if u want a lower tier/unproven(read "crappy") defense man or a pricy veteran u can get them for minimal trade value and likely not give up any roster players or prized assets, but if u want a legitimate and talented guy like Kyle McLaren it should not and will not come cheap(hence the up the a$$ remark) and especially not for a salary dump like Lang(although he has played well of late).

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Old
10-19-2003, 04:41 PM
  #16
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Sharks gave up a lot to get Mclaren, Boyes from all accounts is a good prospects. Lang is certainly not worth that.

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10-19-2003, 04:50 PM
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I think the Caps defientely win on this since everyone thinks they just want to dump Lang anyway. If they can get a package like this for him, go for it.

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10-19-2003, 05:36 PM
  #18
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What a horrible deal for the Sharks.

They lose a young dman and a top prospect for an overpaid second line center. The Sharks already have Damphousse, they don't need Lang.

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Old
10-19-2003, 05:39 PM
  #19
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Your reasoning for the deal makes absolutely no sense. They trade McLaren so that the younger rookies (McLaren is only a year or two older than two of the three) can receive more icetime yet they trade for Lang. My question is if the Sharks want to put 3 rookie defenders out on the ice then why would they want an aging Lang? Its goin in two opposite directions at the same time. Now Faceless' idea of a Sutherby package is more along the lines of what the Sharks would want if they are parting with McLaren (who is hardly an "average defenseman"). If ya want McLaren prepare to cough up Sutherby n some.

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10-19-2003, 05:53 PM
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While I'd like to get McLaren on our blue line to take the place of one of Butch Cassidy's ex-Griffin turnstiles, I don't see it happening.

We could have had McLaren from the B's last year when he was available (and we needed Defense last year as well), but Caps GM, McPhee publicly said he wasn't impressed with him. I guess he was too enamored with the skill and rough tenacity of Kwiatkowski, Gruden, and Boumedienne.

I'd like to send Lang packing since, while he's leading our team in scoring atm, he's still one of the laziest players I've ever witnessed.

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Old
10-19-2003, 06:25 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkc2
To SJ:
Lang and a mid round draft pick

To Wash:
K. McLaren and Boyes

Why should the Cap do it:
The Cap needs a d-man very very very badly. McLaren should upgrade their defense. The Cap is also looking to drop some salaries and is trying to trade one of its high pay forwards. Also Boyes is a young player to have.

Why should SJ do it:
McLaren has a average season so far...not too good not too bad. By trading him, the three young d-man, R. Davison, T. Preissing and
C Ehrhoff can have a bigger role, that should help them develop. Espeacial C Ehrhoff, he should be something spiecal. Lang is a proven player and have good offensive skills.

I think this is a win win situation for both teams.
What do you guys think.
Sharks will never do a trade like that. They tried to move Damphousse last year so why they could be interested by Lang? San Jose gaves Nolan for Boyes and its not to trade him for another big salaries. Very bad trade for the Sharks.

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10-19-2003, 06:41 PM
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god awful

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Old
10-19-2003, 06:48 PM
  #23
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I do not believe SJ has the payroll room for this, nor am I convinced that Lang fills a team need.

This is lopsided in favor of the Caps. As much as I would like to see it, I doubt it would be feasible from the Sharks' perspective.

 
Old
10-20-2003, 03:39 AM
  #24
SuburbanRhythm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkc2
To SJ:
Lang and a mid round draft pick

To Wash:
K. McLaren and Boyes

Why should the Cap do it:
The Cap needs a d-man very very very badly. McLaren should upgrade their defense. The Cap is also looking to drop some salaries and is trying to trade one of its high pay forwards. Also Boyes is a young player to have.

Why should SJ do it:
McLaren has a average season so far...not too good not too bad. By trading him, the three young d-man, R. Davison, T. Preissing and
C Ehrhoff can have a bigger role, that should help them develop. Espeacial C Ehrhoff, he should be something spiecal. Lang is a proven player and have good offensive skills.

I think this is a win win situation for both teams.
What do you guys think.
You make a case for the Caps giving up Lang ($) and wanting McLaren (need D desparately)...but nowhere is any reason why SJ should, or would want, to give up Boyes. Why give up a top prospect for an overpaid C they don't really need?

That proposal is decidely tilted toward Washington. They get everything they want, and give up nothing they want keep. And shed salary in the process.

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Old
10-20-2003, 06:12 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkc2
To SJ:
Lang and a mid round draft pick

To Wash:
K. McLaren and Boyes

Why should the Cap do it:
The Cap needs a d-man very very very badly. McLaren should upgrade their defense. The Cap is also looking to drop some salaries and is trying to trade one of its high pay forwards. Also Boyes is a young player to have.

Why should SJ do it:
McLaren has a average season so far...not too good not too bad. By trading him, the three young d-man, R. Davison, T. Preissing and
C Ehrhoff can have a bigger role, that should help them develop. Espeacial C Ehrhoff, he should be something spiecal. Lang is a proven player and have good offensive skills.

I think this is a win win situation for both teams.
What do you guys think.
No way SJ does this deal. Several reasons...

1) SJ dealt for McLaren because they wanted a solid top pair physical defensiveman

2) Lang's contract is too much for SJ, he may be a good player but he would not be an impact player for SJ which is indicative of his contract.

3) SJ is looking for a top-six winger not center

4) No way Boyes is included in the deal, he was the key player in the Nolan deal.

IMO, this deal greatly favors Washington and does nothing for SJ as Washington solves lots of problems with the deal a top pair defender and a solid prospect for a system that could use a little help. While extracating a salary that they may be dumping at the trade deadline anyway. A big two thumbs down on this one.

And BTW, if McLaren is so average why the interest?

CHomp, CHomp

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