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**OFFICIAL** GDT 1/2 - Kings vs. Stars

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Old
01-03-2006, 07:55 PM
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guzmania
...and Corvo is better defensively than some of you are so quick to point out.

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01-03-2006, 07:57 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingz4life
Well, I disagree with that and its in my original post why. Corvo has everything you could ask for in a offensive d-man...

Stick handling
Hard shot
Passing
Speed
Matty has all the same things, so what's your point? Osprey was simply pointing out that Norstrom's been even better on the PP than Corvo has been.

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01-03-2006, 08:18 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
No one said that Norstrom is better offensively, just that Corvo isn't as good offensively as some of you are quick to point out.
Corvo's talents are better suited for the transition game than the power play. That being said, he has not been the problem with the PP this year. The PP lives and breathes on Visnovsky. I'd suggest that the entire teams chances depend on Visnovsky playing to the best of his abilities. When Lubo's game is right, the Kings are tough to beat. When he's deferring and not shooting/moving the puck crisply, the Kings are in dire straits. He is the MVP of this squad, hands down, and he has been so for the last three seasons.

Norstrom deserves his propers for keeping the game as simple as possible. He's had a rougher time than usual trying to keep up with quicker players, but what physical d-man hasn't?

Personally, I loved what Grebeshkov brought to the PP last night. He handled the puck smoothly at the point (something no King d-man does particularly well), moved the puck cleanly and quickly, and displayed a solid, low and accurate shot on net that lead to a couple of quality deflections. If Grebeshkov can keep the game as simple as Norstrom, he can star in this league. If he tries to do too much, he'll struggle.

This is why I think it is best for Grebs to stay with the big club as long as possible. His problems are physical stamina and decision making. Both can be better served by staying with LA, playing limited minutes in situations that will help his confidence grow, and being monitored full time by serious strength and conditioning coaches. Playing big minutes in Manchester won't fix these ailments - I claim that it will only reinforce the negatives in his game. This approach did wonders for Frolov and Visnovsky, two players who I closely compare to Grebeshkov, and it certainly won't hurt him.

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01-03-2006, 08:44 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guzmania
...and Corvo is better defensively than some of you are so quick to point out.
Perhaps, but Corvo is very replaceable defensively and, as I've just shown, offensively. He's very serviceable, but (like so many other Kings, as we've seen recently) replaceable.

I agree, bland; I liked how Grebeshkov looked on the PP. I believe that he was paired him with Norstrom, which was a good decision. He's a little shaky and it'll take time to find his confidence, but I think that he could be the team's #2 PP defenseman in a year (assuming the Kings don't go out and acquire one, of course).

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01-03-2006, 09:08 PM
  #205
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For 17 + minutes in only his 6th? NHL game, he looked very good. Definately could be a mainstay on our blueline....

I think the thing that impressed me the most was when Ott hit him from behind, Grebs didn't hesitate to skate up to him and hit him back. That was something I never expected to see from him.

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01-03-2006, 09:14 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
Matty has all the same things, so what's your point? Osprey was simply pointing out that Norstrom's been even better on the PP than Corvo has been.
My point is even if he does have it, it's not as good as Corvo's. There's a reason why Corvo was used in the shoot out.

Corvo has 7 goals so far this season while Matty has 2. That is more than 3x more. You think Norstorm stick handles better than Corvo? You think he has a better shot?

Corvo is underrated offensively and defensively.

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01-03-2006, 09:49 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingz4life
. You think Norstorm stick handles better than Corvo? You think he has a better shot?

Corvo is underrated offensively and defensively.
No, and maybe. But that's beyond the point. Osprey was pointing out Norstrom's been even better on the PP than Corvo has been, and you were more concerned saying that Corvo is better offensively. Sure Corvo's a better stickhandler than Matty, the power of their shots is about the same, maybe edge to Matty, but that's not what we were talking about.

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01-03-2006, 10:33 PM
  #208
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It's not either/or. Thank the good Lord. I really like both of these players. Because Matti has time and grade and has never been charged with assault, he would be favored in any head to head match up. But really it's the #6 guy that must step up. Our choices are hard working and, at least, semi-reliable . I wonder how long the Hip flexor has bothered Weaver because I thought he was better in the first 22 than the last 22 games. Add into this mix that Grebeshkov has looked "ready enough". That should warm the cockles of the most hardened heart.

There is a side of me that wants to stand pat with this team. Just let these guys grow together. If that happens and just half the top draftees start to play to their potential, there'll be banners enough for the L.A. Kings and all the faithful.

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01-03-2006, 10:47 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bland
Personally, I loved what Grebeshkov brought to the PP last night. He handled the puck smoothly at the point (something no King d-man does particularly well), moved the puck cleanly and quickly, and displayed a solid, low and accurate shot on net that lead to a couple of quality deflections. If Grebeshkov can keep the game as simple as Norstrom, he can star in this league. If he tries to do too much, he'll struggle.
Yes! Quick, crisp passes, accurate shots, I wasn't believing I was actually watching a Kings point-man doing that! If he sticks around, and is put on that right point, I see the PP improving quite a bit, given that as the things stand right now, Visnovsky and Demitra (the two players that hold on to the puck the most when the PP is set up) consistently over-hold and under-shoot (even if those aren't real words).

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01-04-2006, 12:58 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
No, and maybe. But that's beyond the point. Osprey was pointing out Norstrom's been even better on the PP than Corvo has been, and you were more concerned saying that Corvo is better offensively. Sure Corvo's a better stickhandler than Matty, the power of their shots is about the same, maybe edge to Matty, but that's not what we were talking about.
I understand but because Matty has been playing better on the PP than Corvo according to the numbers, you said something to the extent that Corvo is not as good as we think offensively right? That is what I have been trying to argue and I compared him to Matty because because Corvo's numbers were downgraded when they were compared to Matty's by Osprey. That is why I mentioned the difference between the number of goals scored by Corvo and Matty. I believe Corvo is a above average offensive d-man in the NHL and his defense does not get enough respect.

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01-04-2006, 01:06 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingz4life
I understand but because Matty has been playing better on the PP than Corvo according to the numbers, you said something to the extent that Corvo is not as good as we think offensively right? That is what I have been trying to argue and I compared him to Matty because because Corvo's numbers were downgraded when they were compared to Matty's by Osprey. That is why I mentioned the difference between the number of goals scored by Corvo and Matty. I believe Corvo is a above average offensive d-man in the NHL and his defense does not get enough respect.
Well, Kingz4life, if one of the most defensive stalwarts in the league can put up similar points as Corvo when given the opportunity, I would think that that's enough proof that Corvo isn't as good offensively as some people believe. It seems pretty cut and dry to me, personally...

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01-04-2006, 01:12 AM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
Well, Kingz4life, if one of the most defensive stalwarts in the league can put up similar points as Corvo when given the opportunity, I would think that that's enough proof that Corvo isn't as good offensively as some people believe. It seems pretty cut and dry to me, personally...
Thank you.

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01-04-2006, 01:14 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
No, and maybe. But that's beyond the point. Osprey was pointing out Norstrom's been even better on the PP than Corvo has been, and you were more concerned saying that Corvo is better offensively. Sure Corvo's a better stickhandler than Matty, the power of their shots is about the same, maybe edge to Matty, but that's not what we were talking about.
K4L.. I love it how Matty scores ONE big goal.. ONE.. and all of a sudden he's a better offensive defenseman than Corvo.

Norstrom is NOT a better PP player than Joe Corvo..

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01-04-2006, 01:24 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us
K4L.. I love it how Matty scores ONE big goal.. ONE.. and all of a sudden he's a better offensive defenseman than Corvo.

Norstrom is NOT a better PP player than Joe Corvo..
Matty scoring merely brought the issue forward. The fact is that Norstrom has more points (PP and overall) than Corvo since Matty was put on the PP and 3/4ths the points on the season as Corvo (2/3rds of which Matty got zero PP time and Corvo was on the 1st unit). That's the burden of proof; you're free to argue it, if you can.

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01-04-2006, 01:28 AM
  #215
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.... True or False.

Mattias Norstrom is a better offensive player than Joe Corvo.

If you're gonna tell me that statement is true.. You're out of your mind.

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01-04-2006, 01:29 AM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
Well, Kingz4life, if one of the most defensive stalwarts in the league can put up similar points as Corvo when given the opportunity, I would think that that's enough proof that Corvo isn't as good offensively as some people believe. It seems pretty cut and dry to me, personally...
First of all it's not like Matty has done this the whole season. If, you look at it like that Matty has outplayed Lubo offensively on the PP since he got more time until this last game. Second of all like I said yeah, you have to give Matty credit but Corvo is much more likely to put the puck in the net when he shoots. That seems clear cut to me.

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01-04-2006, 01:29 AM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us
.... True or False.

Mattias Norstrom is a better offensive player than Joe Corvo.

If you're gonna tell me that statement is true.. You're out of your mind.
So the stats lie then?

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01-04-2006, 01:35 AM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
So the stats lie then?
Kinda like the +27?

Stats don't lie but 2 GOALS THE WHOLE SEASON compared to Corvo's 7 and Corvo HAS NOT gotten 1st PP time the whole season.

Corvo is more of a threat to score on the PP. Matty has gotten assists and a huge goal but Corvo has consistently put the puck in the net.

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01-04-2006, 01:35 AM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingz4life
First of all it's not like Matty has done this the whole season.
Precisely. If Matty had been given PP time the first 2/3rds of the season, he'd easily have more points than Corvo (who has a mere 5-point lead).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingsz4life
If, you look at it like that Matty has outplayed Lubo offensively on the PP since he got more time until this last game.
Sorry, but that's not at all true. I don't know where you got that. In the 14 games since Matty was added to the PP, He had 6 PP points (and 10 points overal). In those same games, Visnovsky had 11 PP points (and 15 points overall). Visnovsky obviously is much better offensively than Norstrom. The argument is between Norstrom and Corvo, the difference between which is much, much smaller.

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01-04-2006, 01:45 AM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
Precisely. If Matty had been given PP time the first 2/3rds of the season, he'd easily have more points than Corvo (who has a mere 5-point lead).Sorry, but that's not at all true. I don't know where you got that. In the 14 games since Matty was added to the PP, He had 6 PP points (and 10 points overal). In those same games, Visnovsky had 11 PP points (and 15 points overall). Visnovsky obviously is much better offensively than Norstrom. The argument is between Norstrom and Corvo, the difference between which is much, much smaller.
More points MAYBE but you really think Matty would have 7 goals? Have you even considered that maybe Corvo gets more respect on the PP so, therefore the defense is concentrating on Corvo more than lets say a Matty? Plus, the Kings PP revolves around Lubo therefore, Corvo might not get as many shots as he wants where Matty paired with (Miller-they played together when he was healthy) is looking to shoot more.

I'll trust you with the numbers but Lubo hadn't burried the puck in a long time (18 games?) so, therefore I think he was struggling since we all should expect him to get some goals. We all know Lubo is better but even with those stats we know Matty isn't even close to having Lubo's talent even though Matty is only a mere 5 points behind when you look at those games.

My point is you can't use those 14 games to consider Matty better than Corvo just like you don't use it to say Matty is even close to Lubo. I know your not arguing between Lubo and Matty but were bringing examples.

Corvo is a bigger threat than Matty. That's all there is to it.

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01-04-2006, 01:51 AM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
So the stats lie then?
I have stats.. In the last two seasons Joe Corvo has more points than Mattias Norstrom. In those two seasons Corvo has 17 more points than him. Not to mention a higher +/- rating in those two seasons, and is blowing Nostrom out of the water in that category this year. And this year Corvo is gonna break his career highs.

So.. You tell me.. Do the stats lie?

Go ahead, and say Norstrom didn't get PP time in those two previous seasons.. You, and I both know there are reasons why he wasn't given it.. Reason #1.. Joe Corvo is clearly the better offensive defenseman.

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01-04-2006, 02:35 AM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us
Go ahead, and say Norstrom didn't get PP time in those two previous seasons.. You, and I both know there are reasons why he wasn't given it.. Reason #1.. Joe Corvo is clearly the better offensive defenseman.
Ok... Norstrom didn't get PP time in those two previous seasons, the #1 reason being that Norstrom has been pigeon-holed his entire career as a defense-only defenseman. We all know this. AM is finally thinking outside the box by giving him PP time and the green light to join the rush, and the results are obvious and quite pleasing. You can say that there was a good reason why Norstrom was pigeon-holed, but I'll counter that there is a good reason why he's successful in his new role. Norstrom isn't all that special offensively, don't get me wrong, but neither is Corvo -- you could put just about any decent defenseman (even Norstrom) on the PP and/or with the top forwards and get production -- that's our argument.

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01-04-2006, 02:46 AM
  #223
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Personally speaking, there are about 50 other guys in the NHL I would rather see out on the Kings PP than Norstrom OR Corvo

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01-04-2006, 02:49 AM
  #224
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I personally like Corvo. I think he is a perfectly good #4 d-man.

He is prone to mistakes, but so are alot of offensive d-man in this league, anyone remember Rob Blake during his All-Star years. There were games where he looked like John Slaney

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01-04-2006, 02:55 AM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
Ok... Norstrom didn't get PP time in those two previous seasons, the #1 reason being that Norstrom has been pigeon-holed his entire career as a defense-only defenseman. We all know this. AM is finally thinking outside the box by giving him PP time and the green light to join the rush, and the results are obvious and quite pleasing. You can say that there was a good reason why Norstrom was pigeon-holed, but I'll counter that there is a good reason why he's successful in his new role. Norstrom isn't all that special offensively, don't get me wrong, but neither is Corvo -- you could put just about any decent defenseman (even Norstrom) on the PP and/or with the top forwards and get production -- that's our argument.
What ever happened to showing the coaches that you have offensive skill? Obviously Corvo has done that, and thats why he gets PP time. Think about it? Has Norstrom ever done anything 5 on 5 that would make you want to put him on the PP? No.. Corvo does though.

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