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The Fantastic Four.. err Finns!

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Old
01-04-2006, 03:33 AM
  #1
Ajacied
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The Fantastic Four.. err Finns!

Here's an awesome article on our four Finnish forwards, enjoy:

http://www.dallasstars.com/homeNewsDetail.jsp?id=4170

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Old
01-04-2006, 06:35 AM
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Pekka Lampinen
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Those WW2 references are just ugly.

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01-04-2006, 10:17 AM
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Turco Chips
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pekka Lampinen
Those WW2 references are just ugly.

Elaborate, please.

TC

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01-04-2006, 11:13 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pekka Lampinen
Those WW2 references are just ugly.
Well, yeah it's maybe a bit "off topic" from the author but then again, we are still a country not many generations away from war. You can still see the effects today, and it will be a big part of our cultural heritage for a long time still. Best way to describe it is to view how we celebrate the independence day, compared to other countries. People light up candles, visit graveyards and the general mood is as cheery as a funeral. And that does affect most of us, also our hockey players who have grown up in the culture.

The whole mentality, being humble, working hard and being painfully honest comes from the days of war and the amazing rebuilding that the nation accomplished to do very very fast after the two wars. And of course from the literature...old finnish rolemodels don't talk much about anything, they just DO.

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01-04-2006, 01:10 PM
  #5
Pekka Lampinen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turco Chips
Elaborate, please.

TC
Glorified descriptions of war turn fervent very easily, especially when far-fetched to supplement a different theme. To accept the text's relevance would be to accept the idea of a culture that breeds superior people when it comes to humility, work ethic, courage and perseverance. Cultures do each have their strengths and weaknesses, but the reference to the military achievements implies magnitude that can't be lived up to. Simplified and exaggerated, "A nation of super-soldiers both on and off the ice!"

It's a fine line to walk with this theme to keep logic ahead of emotion. It doesn't help the credibility to get half the figures wrong, either. Also, non-Finns tend to get exicted about the Winter War but all awkward about the Continuation War, just like the author did by choosing to mention the smallest two of the three wars. Since the attitudes differ from normal (average), it gives the impression that the author doesn't quite understand the culture and the events.

I do agree with Psycho on the thought that what happened during and after the war had a gigantic and unique impact on Finnish culture at the level of the big picture, but when you assume the last connection to tangible details such as the nature of hockey players, it gets high-flown.

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01-04-2006, 01:54 PM
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Agreed with your points. Though I am sure the writer did not mean it to sound like he was writing about a country of super warriors. It did not even sound like that, but yeah, I know what you mean..

Then again, not accepting a glorified column about fellow finns and in some part about your own country could just be your finnish mentality speaking

Reminds me of this article about two other finnish player:

" Niittymaki made sure that slim lead held up.
"It's a pretty good effort after the first period," he said. "We didn't give up a lot scoring chances, only a couple of two-on-ones, a lot of long shots. We played a good road game. I just tried to think 'next shot' and whether I make the save or not."

Sami Kapanen, whose locker was next to Niittymaki's, snapped when he heard that.
"I'm sick and tired of you being so modest," Kapanen said. "Will you just come out and say, 'I played great?' "

He did in the third period. Niittymaki knocked down Boyes' one-timer in the slot off a nice feed from Samsonov. Boyes came right back a few minutes later, driving the net hard from the right circle, but Niittymaki got a piece of the puck.
"It hit my stick a little bit," Niittymaki said with a smile.

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01-04-2006, 02:45 PM
  #7
Turco Chips
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pekka Lampinen
Glorified descriptions of war turn fervent very easily, especially when far-fetched to supplement a different theme. To accept the text's relevance would be to accept the idea of a culture that breeds superior people when it comes to humility, work ethic, courage and perseverance. Cultures do each have their strengths and weaknesses, but the reference to the military achievements implies magnitude that can't be lived up to. Simplified and exaggerated, "A nation of super-soldiers both on and off the ice!"

It's a fine line to walk with this theme to keep logic ahead of emotion. It doesn't help the credibility to get half the figures wrong, either. Also, non-Finns tend to get exicted about the Winter War but all awkward about the Continuation War, just like the author did by choosing to mention the smallest two of the three wars. Since the attitudes differ from normal (average), it gives the impression that the author doesn't quite understand the culture and the events.

I do agree with Psycho on the thought that what happened during and after the war had a gigantic and unique impact on Finnish culture at the level of the big picture, but when you assume the last connection to tangible details such as the nature of hockey players, it gets high-flown.
I see yer point. I think you may be reading a bit too much into it though. The author was merely trying to get the point of the Finnish peoples' veracity and strong wills/work ethic though to the reader.

Thanks for the clarifiacation.


TC

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Old
01-04-2006, 05:35 PM
  #8
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" It doesn't help the credibility to get half the figures wrong, either. "

Winter war:

Finnish losses: 22 800

Russian Losses (from the "Soviet Casualties and Combat Losses in the Twentieth Century") USSR archives: 126 875 dead (minimum number, the stydu says the figure is really higher) 265 000 wounded, 3,100 captured + craploads of equipment including 2000 tanks destroyed or captured.

Funny thing is Christopher Lee was part of Finnish army.

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Old
01-05-2006, 03:05 AM
  #9
psycho_dad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo
" It doesn't help the credibility to get half the figures wrong, either. "

Winter war:

Finnish losses: 22 800

Russian Losses (from the "Soviet Casualties and Combat Losses in the Twentieth Century") USSR archives: 126 875 dead (minimum number, the stydu says the figure is really higher) 265 000 wounded, 3,100 captured + craploads of equipment including 2000 tanks destroyed or captured.

Funny thing is Christopher Lee was part of Finnish army.
Yeah the russian losses were much higher.

Christopher Lee? Really? Quite unfair to have a prince of darkness on your side. Or white wizard.

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01-05-2006, 05:04 AM
  #10
Pekka Lampinen
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The estimates of Soviet casualties differ so much and so many biased sources are available that you can't really fault for quoting any figures. The USSR archives Jepjepjoo quoted represent the smallest estimates, the author's 200,000 is very common.

The weird error was cutting down the manpower of both armies to one third.

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Old
01-05-2006, 06:00 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo

Funny thing is Christopher Lee was part of Finnish army.
No way, you're kidding, eh?

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Old
01-05-2006, 09:32 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boucicaut
No way, you're kidding, eh?
I think I have heard something like that before, but never really reacted or asked about it.

Oh yeah, one more example about finnish modesty...

They made a huge hollywood movie about Vasily Zaitsev, russian sniper during ww2. Movie is called enemy at gates. Zaitsev was reported to kill over 200 germans. Yet nobody knows or makes movies about finnish Simo Häyhä who killed over 500 russians in "winter war", and those are just official numbers, all this in just 3 months. He also had over 200 SMG kills which do not count in the sniper statistics. That would have been an easy sell story to any movie maker, but finns did not bother I guess.


Last edited by psycho_dad: 01-05-2006 at 09:41 AM.
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Old
01-06-2006, 02:55 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad
I think I have heard something like that before, but never really reacted or asked about it.

Oh yeah, one more example about finnish modesty...

They made a huge hollywood movie about Vasily Zaitsev, russian sniper during ww2. Movie is called enemy at gates. Zaitsev was reported to kill over 200 germans. Yet nobody knows or makes movies about finnish Simo Häyhä who killed over 500 russians in "winter war", and those are just official numbers, all this in just 3 months. He also had over 200 SMG kills which do not count in the sniper statistics. That would have been an easy sell story to any movie maker, but finns did not bother I guess.
And the relations to Häyhä, in finnish hockey-players are between slim to none. As there aren't any that efficient sniper produced in Finland, except maybe Selänne in his glorydays...

Back to article? It would be fun to get some "behind the scenes" reporting about how the finnish five are doin' in Dallas. I'd guess there's some social ties between 'em, as they share the common language and all...

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Old
01-07-2006, 03:21 AM
  #14
Matti_A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boucicaut
No way, you're kidding, eh?
It's true. He even met with C.G. Mannerheim!
He also was some kind of secret agent for the RAF, but he won't elaborate on what he actually did.
I have so much respect for Chris Lee .One of my favourite actors ever.

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01-07-2006, 05:49 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matti_A
It's true. He even met with C.G. Mannerheim!
He also was some kind of secret agent for the RAF, but he won't elaborate on what he actually did.
I have so much respect for Chris Lee .One of my favourite actors ever.
That awesome I have always been christopher lee big fan .You can read it in his imdb.com bio.

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Old
01-09-2006, 03:52 AM
  #16
psycho_dad
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Tuomo Ruutu got cut pretty bad and had to be operated on so he is now out of team Finland. This should open up a spot for Jussi Jokinen, if there is any sense in the coaches head.

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Old
01-09-2006, 08:51 AM
  #17
Incarnation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo
" It doesn't help the credibility to get half the figures wrong, either. "

Winter war:

Finnish losses: 22 800

Russian Losses (from the "Soviet Casualties and Combat Losses in the Twentieth Century") USSR archives: 126 875 dead (minimum number, the stydu says the figure is really higher) 265 000 wounded, 3,100 captured + craploads of equipment including 2000 tanks destroyed or captured.

Funny thing is Christopher Lee was part of Finnish army.
Actually, Christopher Lee volunteered but the war ended before he got to Finland.

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01-09-2006, 10:03 AM
  #18
RorschachWJK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matti_A
It's true. He even met with C.G. Mannerheim!
He also was some kind of secret agent for the RAF, but he won't elaborate on what he actually did.
I have so much respect for Chris Lee .One of my favourite actors ever.
Yeah, I checked his bio at imdb.com and he actually did volunteer for the Winter War. I am impressed

I think J. Jokinen needs to be included in team Finland now that Tuomo is out. I'd prefer a healthy Tuomo over J.J any time, but no can do...

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