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MTL/NYR proposal

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Old
10-18-2003, 07:27 AM
  #1
Munchausen
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MTL/NYR proposal

Was discussing this idea in the Sundstrom thread bellow and it appears to make sense for both teams.

To NY: Niklas Sundstrom
To Mtl: Mathieu Barnaby

Montreal gets added toughness, a thing they still lack too much for my liking, which could make for a nice 4th line with Begin, Langdon, Kilger or Ward.

The Rangers get back Sunny (2-way checker/PK specialist) to play with Holik on the 3rd line. Picks could be added to even out but those are the main players for that trade idea.

Just wanted to see how many Habs/Rangers fans would be up for it.

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10-18-2003, 07:41 AM
  #2
Evil Sather
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I for one would love to have Sunny back as a checking winger for Holik, God he'd help our PK too, but Barnaby is a strange player on our team -- he has the skill to play on the top line for short bursts, and is one of the few guys who plays with constant passion and hitting. If you want toughness though:

Chris Simon, $1 million (so you're paying him $500,000)
for
Nik Sundstrum.

End result is you get your toughness, Simon fights better than Barnaby, plus you save $1.5 million in addition to getting rid of one of the defensively responsible, non scoring wingers who make too much money for you guys.

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10-18-2003, 07:44 AM
  #3
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To quote Gainey...

"No."

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Old
10-18-2003, 08:12 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
I for one would love to have Sunny back as a checking winger for Holik, God he'd help our PK too, but Barnaby is a strange player on our team -- he has the skill to play on the top line for short bursts, and is one of the few guys who plays with constant passion and hitting. If you want toughness though:

Chris Simon, $1 million (so you're paying him $500,000)
for
Nik Sundstrum.

End result is you get your toughness, Simon fights better than Barnaby, plus you save $1.5 million in addition to getting rid of one of the defensively responsible, non scoring wingers who make too much money for you guys.

As a Ranger fan, I don't think that this is fair deal for the Habs.

I'd give up Barnaby for Sunny in a heartbeat. Sundstrom adds what this team needs: a good defensive winger (although he can score a bit). While we all love Barnaby for what he did last season, I think he will be hard pressed to duplicate the success he had last season. And with players like Simon (who, you have to know, the Rangers are stuck with although he really has not been bad for the Rangers), Keefe (possibly a younger version of Barnaby), and Lacouture, the Rangers can afford to give away a player like Barnaby.

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Old
10-18-2003, 08:26 AM
  #5
Evil Sather
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Perhaps. Still, they save 1.5 million US dollars, get rid of a glut on their team in regards to Sunny's type of player, and a lot tougher. Also, Simon's contract is up after this year -- another point in favor, while Nik's isn't.

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10-18-2003, 08:48 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
Perhaps. Still, they save 1.5 million US dollars, get rid of a glut on their team in regards to Sunny's type of player, and a lot tougher. Also, Simon's contract is up after this year -- another point in favor, while Nik's isn't.

Barnaby's is up at the end of the season as well and he makes 300,000 less than Sunny.

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Old
10-18-2003, 09:17 AM
  #7
Psycho Papa Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Sather
I for one would love to have Sunny back as a checking winger for Holik, God he'd help our PK too, but Barnaby is a strange player on our team -- he has the skill to play on the top line for short bursts, and is one of the few guys who plays with constant passion and hitting. If you want toughness though:

Chris Simon, $1 million (so you're paying him $500,000)
for
Nik Sundstrum.

End result is you get your toughness, Simon fights better than Barnaby, plus you save $1.5 million in addition to getting rid of one of the defensively responsible, non scoring wingers who make too much money for you guys.
The Habs have Langdon. No need for Simon. Barnaby would be an improvement on Begin in the agitator department.

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Old
10-18-2003, 09:23 AM
  #8
Evil Sather
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I understand your points -- but who on the Rangers plays like they actually want to be there? Barnaby is one. Purinton is another. Lundmark tries. Hlavac loves the palce, as does Nedved, but anyone else on the team? Not really from what I've seen. So we have 5 guys out of 23 who actually play with passion and like they want to be here, and you want to trade one of them? I mean I'd love Sunny, but our team barely has a pulse as it is.

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Old
10-18-2003, 09:47 AM
  #9
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This trade proposal would have made more sense about 1 month ago, as the Canadiens were considered as one of the softest teams in the league, if not the softest. Gainey made some clever moves, though, picking up Steve Begin and Darren Langdon at the waiver draft. Both were injured, though, so Habs fans didn't get to realize yet we don't need agitators anymore. When both guys will be added to the line up, it will perhaps make the Habs a scarier team for opponants. I don't mind dealing one of our PK specialists (Dackell, Sundstrom and Juneau), but only if we get fair value in return, and if we get something we are in need of -- agitagors not being one of our current lacks.

Unless the Canadiens management feels Barnaby is a big improvement over Begin, and decides sending him with the Hamilton Bulldogs in the AHL, I can't see this sort of deal happen, by any means.

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10-18-2003, 09:49 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsFan
This trade proposal would have made more sense about 1 month ago, as the Canadiens were considered as one of the softest teams in the league, if not the softest. Gainey made some clever moves, though, picking up Steve Begin and Darren Langdon at the waiver draft. Both were injured, though, so Habs fans didn't get to realize yet we don't need agitators anymore. When both guys will be added to the line up, it will perhaps make the Habs a scarier team for opponants. I don't mind dealing one of our PK specialists (Dackell, Sundstrom and Juneau), but only if we get fair value in return, and if we get something we are in need of.

Unless the Canadiens management feels Barnaby is a big improvement over Begin, and send him with the Hamilton Bulldogs in the AHL, I can't see this sort of deal happen, by any means.
Agreed.

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Old
10-18-2003, 11:11 AM
  #11
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Since when can Sundstrom score?

I don't Sundstrom is a very valuable player....he is good defensively and will help the PK but his play has been sliding the last couple of years.

I dont think the Habs want Barnaby the clown....they can make due without his antics and the Rags can keep Simon.

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Old
10-18-2003, 11:23 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsFan
This trade proposal would have made more sense about 1 month ago, as the Canadiens were considered as one of the softest teams in the league, if not the softest. Gainey made some clever moves, though, picking up Steve Begin and Darren Langdon at the waiver draft. Both were injured, though, so Habs fans didn't get to realize yet we don't need agitators anymore. When both guys will be added to the line up, it will perhaps make the Habs a scarier team for opponants. I don't mind dealing one of our PK specialists (Dackell, Sundstrom and Juneau), but only if we get fair value in return, and if we get something we are in need of -- agitagors not being one of our current lacks.

Unless the Canadiens management feels Barnaby is a big improvement over Begin, and decides sending him with the Hamilton Bulldogs in the AHL, I can't see this sort of deal happen, by any means.

Yeah but what we need are scorers and we're not going to get any with Juneau, Dackell or Sundstrom. We can't expect to get quality without having to offer up guys like Theodore, Markov, Komisarek or Zednik. I would think a guy like Barnaby would be good for the Habs. He's within our price range. He would contribute more to our team then what a player like Sundstrom does. Sundstrom is good, but we have a few guys who can do what he does and we have some youngsters who can take his place like Ward and Kilger (still young). Barnaby on the 3rd line, Begin and Langdon on the 4th. Other teams will think twice before taking liberties at our players.

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Old
10-18-2003, 11:59 AM
  #13
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Barnaby like Laraque or Worrell have been on most Habs fans wish list for a long time. Chris Simon as well but has slowed down IMO in the last few years. Before making any move in the toghness department I believe Gainey will wait to see how Bégin and Langdon play as they were both injured.

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Old
10-18-2003, 12:55 PM
  #14
Munchausen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsFan
This trade proposal would have made more sense about 1 month ago, as the Canadiens were considered as one of the softest teams in the league, if not the softest. Gainey made some clever moves, though, picking up Steve Begin and Darren Langdon at the waiver draft. Both were injured, though, so Habs fans didn't get to realize yet we don't need agitators anymore. When both guys will be added to the line up, it will perhaps make the Habs a scarier team for opponants. I don't mind dealing one of our PK specialists (Dackell, Sundstrom and Juneau), but only if we get fair value in return, and if we get something we are in need of -- agitagors not being one of our current lacks.

Unless the Canadiens management feels Barnaby is a big improvement over Begin, and decides sending him with the Hamilton Bulldogs in the AHL, I can't see this sort of deal happen, by any means.
I like Begin, but no way is he better in the agitating departement than Barnaby. Begin is a poor man's Barnaby if anything. And there's no reason to think Habs cannot use both of them.

The motivation behind this is that right now Sundstrom plays on the 4th line where he's pretty much useless and his ice time is sliping. Dackell, Juneau and Bulis have a long established chemistry and it looks like Sundstrom is becoming to odd man out.

In that context, the Habs might as well get a guy that is really suited for the 4th line duty and can add a bit more respect in the toughness area. I wouldn't take Simon though. He's only the shadow of his former self. But Barnaby is one of the best agitators in the game.

Langdon/Barnaby - Begin - Ward

That's the 4th line I'd like to see.

This deal would serve both team as Sundstrom is more than fair value for Barnaby and he has become expandable for the Habs this year. Rangers are already a tough team but they need to reinforce and thighten their defense and PK.

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Old
10-18-2003, 04:50 PM
  #15
didjuicythat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
I like Begin, but no way is he better in the agitating departement than Barnaby. Begin is a poor man's Barnaby if anything. And there's no reason to think Habs cannot use both of them.
I don't think you understood completely my point. While I do think Barnaby is an improvement on Begin, I just can't see the Canadiens having both in their line up, considering we also have Langdon that can do the dirty job, so that would make three. Until we see what Darren and Steve can bring to the team, I think it's unfair to say we desperatly need an agitator such as Barnaby. On the other, if Langdon's and Begin's presence on the ice doesn't bring the intensity, and the energy the management is looking, Gainey may be looking, once again, for the right guy, that could very well be Matthew Barnaby.

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10-18-2003, 04:54 PM
  #16
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The question shouldn't be «Is Barnaby an upgrade over Begin», in all logic, the question should be: «Is Barnaby an upgrade over Sundstrom?».

We're not dealing Begin, we're dealing Sundstrom !

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Old
10-18-2003, 05:50 PM
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I might be the only hab fan here that would like to see a Sundstrom - Simon swap happen...specialy if the rags would be willing to pay 1.5 M of his salary (by the way, for how long is he signed ?). Although i like Hossa, i think a line of Simon - Ribeiro - Zednik could be effective. A guy like Simon would complement Ribeiro's game perfectly as he seems to play well with "enforcers" (remember Belanger in Quebec a couple years ago), and Simon has, or had, somewhat of a scoring touch. On which line would Hossa play I have no clue (maybe with Saku). I must say though i would rather trade Sunny for picks since the habs have to many forwards.

My 2 cents

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10-18-2003, 06:56 PM
  #18
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Interesting that Hab fans seem to want something concrete in return for Sundstrom - particularly while his trade value is at probably an all-time low.

He's been reduced to fourth line duty and he's doing anything but excelling. As has been mentioned, he has a rather hefty salary for someone who spends most of his game either floating or sitting in the middle of the bench with front row seats.

When the Habs come healthy, I can certainly see a trade with Sundstrom being the player the Habs look to move, but let's be honest here, would Gainey really want someone in return? He's already going to have players unhappy because they'll be sitting out - why bring in another who's only going to be a platoon. This isn't a team that's going to do anything in the playoffs - if it even makes it!

If Sundstrom is dealt, I would like to see it more as a salary cutting precedure. Let another of the kids - Higgins who looks just about ready? - get some real quality time in the NHL. I'd be more than happy to see a fourth or fifth rounder coming back the other way.

Now, the flip of that coin is that, should he be dealing with Sather, he might be able to get up to a third - since the Rag$ seem to always be in the market for more payroll and less youth.

A concerned fan.

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Old
10-18-2003, 07:32 PM
  #19
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Quote:
If Sundstrom is dealt, I would like to see it more as a salary cutting precedure. Let another of the kids - Higgins who looks just about ready? - get some real quality time in the NHL
Even if we trade Sundstrom or Dackell for picks * 2 logical choice right now * we won't have any Quality Ice time to Higgins


Quote:
Holik
I would kill to have him on the Habs . His salary is a joke but he's a good player . I know we don't have the money for him but still , a Bulis-Holik-Ward would be an great 3rd line .

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10-18-2003, 10:55 PM
  #20
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IF montreal makes a trade, I think they'll trade their players for prospects or draft picks. The habs just don't have enough room for more players as they don't have enought room for players they have now. Though I could see habs trading two players for one or three players for a player and a draft pick/prospect.

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Old
10-19-2003, 09:23 AM
  #21
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Maybe I'm a minority here but I'd rather have Sundstrom than Barnaby.

As someone pointed out above we have Begin to fill that particular role. While Barnaby is better in trouble making, the problem with him is he does it little too often. I'd rather have solid hitter with size on my team, than a small guy that yaps and does 'creative' stickwork. If there is any truth to the rumors, he hasnt been exactly a great team player or locker room personality either.

Sunny is little younger. He would be doing more offensively if Habs didnt prefer their youth, playing Hossa and Ryder on offensive lines. While hes not doing much offensively as 4th liner - he could still step up for injury replacement. Another reason to keep him around is because Habs may need players to replace Juneau and/or Dackell next year.

And why should Canadiens help Rangers (or the other way)? They will propably end up fighting for the same playoffs spot anyways. If they absolutely HAVE to ship him out, let it be western team offering the highest pick for him.

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Old
10-19-2003, 09:49 AM
  #22
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I would trade you guys Sunsdstrom + ? for 2nd round pick or just for 3rd round. Not that he is not good or anything but we have too much bodies.

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10-19-2003, 11:43 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardZednik#20
I would trade you guys Sunsdstrom + ? for 2nd round pick or just for 3rd round. Not that he is not good or anything but we have too much bodies.
I don't think that would work. Rangers need to move a body and I personally don't think Sundstrom is deserved of a second or third.

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Old
10-19-2003, 09:20 PM
  #24
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I like Sundstrom and don't want to see him moved. He has played some good hockey very recently. He was on the 4th line to bolster Ward and Higgins, but will end up on the checking line once Bulis is promoted to a scoring line again (hopefully soon).

There's no point in dumping a useful player for nothing. The real problem here is Audette and Perreault. I say stick em in the pressbox.

If we can talk the Rags into either one of them or both of them for picks....

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Old
10-19-2003, 09:28 PM
  #25
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The Sharks are paying most of his salary though. Any team that takes Sundstrom isn't on the hook for most of his salary.

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