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No Euro's in the QMJHL ?

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Old
10-18-2003, 05:24 PM
  #1
Mooseheads@HF
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No Euro's in the QMJHL ?

QMJHL President Gilles Courteau is considering changing the ruling of having Euros on Q league teams. It could be as soon as next year that there wont be any Euro entering in the QMJHL.

What are peoples thoughts on this, Exspecailly 'Stevenet' what do you think ?

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10-18-2003, 06:20 PM
  #2
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I can't say I'd be happy about this.

But isn't this a CHL decision?

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10-18-2003, 06:26 PM
  #3
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I would not be happy with this. As I look forward to seeing guys like Vrana, Shkotov, Steber, Sersen, Pohl....etc...etc

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10-18-2003, 07:27 PM
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I think it would have to be a CHL wide change I personally could care less.... It wouldopen up 2 more spot per team for some good ol Canadian kids thats for sure.

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10-18-2003, 07:45 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tray
I think it would have to be a CHL wide change I personally could care less.... It wouldopen up 2 more spot per team for some good ol Canadian kids thats for sure.
This is the sort of simplistic argument people in favour of this change usually come up with. What's funny is that removing Europeans from the CHL would probably actually hurt the development of Canadian hockey players. The two Europeans a team carries are often among its best, most skilled players (since no one is going to bother bringing over a 4th line grinder from Europe), and so by playing with these players, their North American linemates invariably benefit from the experience. The "good ole Canadian boyz" who would be replacing them would be guys who can't cut it in the WHL, meaning guys from the BCJHL and so on. This decreases the skill level of the team and pushes inferior players into more prominent roles, where they might drag down the play of their more talented teammates. When Brendan Morrow was in Portland, would he have been better off playing with some mucker from a Junior B team than Marian Hossa? European players in the CHL increase the quality of play in the entire league, which helps the development of their skilled Canadian and American counterparts at the same time.

Beyond all that, I don't think any such change would ever happen because the owners would likely have to approve it first, and I don't think they would. Highly-skilled European players are some of the best gate draws in the CHL and have been for years. I know that when I use to attend a lot of Cougars games several years ago, I heard plenty of "I came to see Zdeno Chara" or "Portand is in town so come to the game and get a look at future NHL superstar Marian Hossa".

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10-18-2003, 07:54 PM
  #6
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I agree with Epsilon , the CHL should keept their Euro ... Guys like Shiskanov , Hemsky and Nagy were/are ture superstar in the Q , the fans love them .

Quote:
''Portand is in town so come to the game and get a look at future NHL superstar Marian Hossa".
And his brother Marcel ... Balej aslo played his junior there but we talking about the Q . I've read somewhere that the WHL/OHL want to cut Euro to 1 per team .

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10-18-2003, 08:15 PM
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It will not happen unless the whole CHL changes their Euro rules, the Q is not going to sacrifice a potential Mem Cup to have a couple more local pluggers for the 4th line. Seriously, anything a European is bumping is 99% of the time a 4th liner who has little to no NHL upside, so I say leave the rule as it is, OR change the rules to 1 Euro and 4 20yr olds or something similar so the development of the younger players stays about the same since usually Europeans are impact players.

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10-18-2003, 08:17 PM
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I've never had a problem with any Euro's playing in the CHL, and I would see no reason to stop them playing here.

Unless of course there name is Henrik Alfredsson.

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10-18-2003, 08:22 PM
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I've heard members of the media suggest that many owners would be in favour of ditching the import maximum altogether and being allowed to put together the best team possible. Personally I think that's a great idea, it would open up the possibility of the CHL becoming the elite developmental league in the world. And in the long run, it would improve the quality of Canadian players entering the NHL, and the quality of the WJC program, because the level of competition and level of teammates would increase. Surely those are more important goals than giving as many future bear-leaguers as possible the opportunity to play their poor brand of hockey for a few years.

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Old
10-18-2003, 08:31 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
I've heard members of the media suggest that many owners would be in favour of ditching the import maximum altogether and being allowed to put together the best team possible. Personally I think that's a great idea, it would open up the possibility of the CHL becoming the elite developmental league in the world. And in the long run, it would improve the quality of Canadian players entering the NHL, and the quality of the WJC program, because the level of competition and level of teammates would increase. Surely those are more important goals than giving as many future bear-leaguers as possible the opportunity to play their poor brand of hockey for a few years.
No you can not do that. Then teams who draw a lot like Halifax and Ottawa have MASSIVE advantages over teams like Shawinigan(Sorry, I do not know what OHL teams would be considered "small market ) It's no coincidence that the teams with the highest attendance are usually the teams with the best Europeans. Having 2 allows for A) A limit for these good teams so the talent difference is not large enough is not a huge deal and B) Allows the teams who can not afford good Europeans to not have to worry about it as much sine they can usually trade that pick for a good pick in the midget draft.

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10-19-2003, 06:09 AM
  #11
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The Q must keep Euro player but add a limit to the USA player.

I think Courteau want that because there is not enough Quebecer in the league (just 7 with the Quebec Remparts) but the solution is not to ban euro player who a lot of time are the best player of the team.

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10-19-2003, 06:16 AM
  #12
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You knew it was just a metter of time before I got into this one.

First off, it is going to be a league-wide (WHL, OHL, QMJHL) ban on Europeans if it does in fact go through. It is only rumoured right now, but i know for a fact it has been discussed at length over the last few years.

I know the one behind it all is Bob Nicholson from Hockey Canada. He has stated for years that he doesn't like the idea of European players taking the roster spots of Canadian (or North American) players. First off, If you are good enough to make the team, you will make the team. If you are the 22nd or 23rd player on a roster, and play 1 in 4 games and in that 1 game you may get 4 to 5 minutes on the ice, don't you think going down to Junior A would be a better option for you to develop as a hockey player?

The argument from teams is that the players cost too much, and in some cases, yes, that is true, but that is because the agents and federations are greedy, and that doesn't help anyone involved since the kids just want a chance to play at the highest level of hockey for their age group, and most of them just want the exposure they wouldn't get at home. Think of some guys from Latvia, Belarus, the lower leagues in Finland, Sweden, Russia, Czech and Slovakia, that hardly get any scouting. Most European kids are only scouting by NHL teams in tournaments so if they are injured at the time of the tournament or if they have a bad tournament, they don't get good reviews. At least if they can come over and play here, scouts get to see what they have to offer for 70 games in a North American setting.

Now of course, a lot of people say that they don't want Europeans in Major Junior, or in any pro leagues for that matter, and they make the argument "Why can't they stay over there?" Well to be honest, the country with the most registered hockey players playing outside it's borders.....is Canada. There are more Canadians playing in Europe than there are Europeans playing in North America. And yes, over there they have import restrictions are well, as there is usually a limit of 3 foreigners per team, and usually those are the guys the fans come to see. Look at FIK, Frederikshavn White Hawks for the Danish Elite League. 3 of their top 4 scorers are foreigners, Radim Piroutek and Martin Taborsky from the Czech Republic and, yes, a Canadian, Can Ceman. I give you that team as an example, because one of, if not, the youngest player on the team, Nikolaj Nedermak, is a kid that dreams of playing in the CHL. He very nearly was selected in the Import Draft this year and if Europeans are still around next year, he should get picked up.

Like I said before, the biggest problems is the fees that some federations and agents ask for for their players. I remember that the Quebec Remparts had to pay over $50,000 for Timofei Shishkanov. That is a lot of money, and obviously, not every team can afford that, acctually, very few could afford that...But something I have preached to teams is that you don't have to go after the absolute best player available, go for someone that fits your needs and fits into your budget. For example, the Drummondville Voltigeurs....I know their situation, since I brought them a player this year. They are not a rich team, and weren't planning on having any Europeans. They were offered Martin Slovak, a decent 2nd line player as well as two other 19 year olds from Cape Breton for like a 5th round pick, so why not, pull the trigger. They were set with their one European. But they had a 20 year old backup goalie, and an unproven 18 year old #1. They drafted 2 goalies this summer, but both were destined for Junior AAA and/or Midget AAA....So I gave them a goalie I have known for a few years, Ervins Mustukovs, from Latvia. 19 years old, was named the goalie of the year in Latvia, but no one had ever heard of him because of where he came from. He has come in and done a great job for the Voltigeurs. How much did he cost? Well, the Latvian federation only asks $500 CAN as it's transfer fee. That's pretty cheap for a good backup goalie who could easily step up and become the #1 if your young netminder falters or goes down with an injury.

You just have to know where to look and know who to believe to get the right European picks. If you want someone to fit your system, and fit your budget, just dig a little deeper than the young European superstars.

But if European players are banned, what about American players? They aren't Canadian...If you look at the QMJHL's Quebec Remparts, they have 8 Americans. Aren't they taking the roster spots of Canadian players too? I knwo it is a silly argument, but if they are compaining about 2 European players taking the roster spots of Canadian players, but teams can stock up on Americans, it just isn't fair.

And another thing, they changed the CHL All-Star Games from a League Tournament into an evaluation camp for the Canadian National Under-20 team. Now why would you want to evaluate your national team against another national team....from EUROPE!?

"The Canadian Hockey League is extremely pleased to host this historic series between two of the world's great hockey countries," said CHL President and OHL Commissioner David Branch.

We are very excited to be a part of what will be a historic, entertaining and skilled competition between the two great hockey powers," said Elton Ash, Vice-President, Regional Director RE/MAX Western Canada

So the two main people involved in this game, David Branch, the CHL President, and Elton Ash, the title sponsor, seem to think these Russian kids are pretty good players. I mean you wouldn't put your best players against theirs before a major tournament unless you thought they were pretty decent.....Imagine if a few of these Russians played in the CHL, we could see how good are guys are against them on a nightly basis....oh wait, Evgeni Artukhin and Timofei Shishkanov from last year's World Junior Champions from Russia DID play in the CHL. And in this years' Canada/Russia challenge, I think guys like Alexander Kojevnikov, Ivan Khomutov, Alexei Shkotov, and maybe a few others will play for the Russians...hmmm, interesting...

Hopefully the CHL comes to their senses and keeps the European players in the CHL, it makes the league better. I am very passionate about this subject because I have a vested interest in it.

For those interested in Europeans in the CHL check out my site on the subject, in my profile.

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Old
10-19-2003, 09:22 AM
  #13
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I think having the Import players is one of the best things the league could do for itself. I don't know about other people, but since the import draft started, two of my favourite players have been imports. (Max Spiridonov, who I believe is back in Russia, and Vadim Karaga, who is currently in London)

I think I'll write the CHL a letter and give them a piece of my mind.

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10-19-2003, 09:34 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douggy
I think having the Import players is one of the best things the league could do for itself. I don't know about other people, but since the import draft started, two of my favourite players have been imports. (Max Spiridonov, who I believe is back in Russia, and Vadim Karaga, who is currently in London)

I think I'll write the CHL a letter and give them a piece of my mind.
In your letter tell them to give their heads a shake. Patrick Roy can bring in the best young Americans to try to help out his hockey team rebuild after they host the Mem Cup but they're NOT going to allow 2 Europeans on a team? Someone tell them to get their priorites straight.

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10-19-2003, 10:08 AM
  #15
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The "limit Americans" thing has exactly 0% chance of happening as long as there are American teams in the CHL.

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10-19-2003, 10:20 AM
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Let's not forget that CHL is a *commercial* enterprise. Not everything they do is for the players benefit. They are concerned that bringing in the europeans reduces the competitiveness of the poorer teams. Fewer teams can compete => less fan interest => less profit. Makes sense from business perspective.

From the young players perspective it helps to play against the best, yet still being able to get the top line minutes if you are a cut above (no all-star teams please). That would mean 5-10 players per team that will eventually play in the NHL. Right now it's 1-2 per team. In my opinion it hinders the development of the higher level talent (Brendl could have been much better if he actually had a reason to improve, as it was he did not even have to try to dominate).

I do not know what's the best way to go. The proposed euro-ban will undoubtedly damage the development of young player talent. But it will improve the financial situation in the CHL. At least temporarily, until the top end NA talent decides that it may be a better option to go play in Europe.

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10-19-2003, 11:37 AM
  #17
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This would be such an idiotic move IMO.

Lets hope the CHL comes to their senses.

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10-19-2003, 08:45 PM
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i thought the Q was 100% euro

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10-19-2003, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevenet
But if European players are banned, what about American players? They aren't Canadian...If you look at the QMJHL's Quebec Remparts, they have 8 Americans. Aren't they taking the roster spots of Canadian players too? I knwo it is a silly argument, but if they are compaining about 2 European players taking the roster spots of Canadian players, but teams can stock up on Americans, it just isn't fair.
I agree on this , if they ban the Euro from the Q only because they takes homeboys spot they will have to restric the number of Americans per teams .

Without Hennesey and Shiskanov the Quebec Rempart would be a poor team without much interest for the ''second tier'' fans . It should be something like 2 Americans and 2 Euro per team Maximum .

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10-20-2003, 03:46 AM
  #20
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I agree if the CHL does this it would hinder the type of competition that gets our guys and others ready for the NHL. So I agree if you do this to Euro players than USA players should also be banned from comming up into the league.

Lets see what do you think competition would benifite more from...playing against a guy like Vrana, Kories, Pohl, Khoumatov or the many other euros who are extremly talented and came over or would they benifit more from playing 4th lines players who can hardley make the CHL?????????? I don't know, seems to be CHL hockey doesn't really care about the product on the ice at all which could hinder attendence, if they pass such a thing.

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10-20-2003, 04:06 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfernic
The Q must keep Euro player but add a limit to the USA player.

I think Courteau want that because there is not enough Quebecer in the league (just 7 with the Quebec Remparts) but the solution is not to ban euro player who a lot of time are the best player of the team.


That's surprising to me, especially given the fact there are eight Americans on the team. Are there that many Americans in the Q right now, or is the Remparts the exception? Curious, given Patrick Roy's involvement with the team.

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10-20-2003, 08:18 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozeph_Balej
I agree on this , if they ban the Euro from the Q only because they takes homeboys spot they will have to restric the number of Americans per teams .

Without Hennesey and Shiskanov the Quebec Rempart would be a poor team without much interest for the ''second tier'' fans . It should be something like 2 Americans and 2 Euro per team Maximum .
Obviously after what I'm going to say I think it's silly to ban euros from the CHL.

Now as for this per team maximum business... why would you really want to do that? Why not take the best players available no matter where they come from? If you look at the big picture with finances included why not take whichever player makes the most sense for your team? Otherwise it is simply discrimination, even if it's geographical it's still discrimination. Maybe as a predominantly American league (In geographical location only of course) the NHL should put a 2 Canadian and 2 Euro maximum on the teams. Hey we'll sacrifice the leagues reputation and talent level so that way our good old American boys get first dibs on playing. That would be pretty silly.

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10-20-2003, 09:47 AM
  #23
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- Isn't it more benficial to have Euros on the team financially? I was under the impression that a winning team will draw more fans and sell more merchandise than a losing team.
- The loss of Euros would also have some trickle down effects on the league overall. Having Euros increases the level of competition. Canadians that perform at a high level are held in higher regard by scouts because the league has top-level competition. Not having Euros decreases the level of competition in Canada and increases it overseas. European players will develop with better competition and thus, be rewarded with a higher draft status. That means less money for the Canadian kids.
- What if European players decide to come over anyways instead playing in the College hockey or USHL ranks? It can only increase the level of play in those leagues and at least gives more kids a viable option for progressing outside the CHL.

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10-21-2003, 07:54 AM
  #24
Anfernic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
That's surprising to me, especially given the fact there are eight Americans on the team. Are there that many Americans in the Q right now, or is the Remparts the exception? Curious, given Patrick Roy's involvement with the team.

The Remparts are the exeption, American player like (Adam Pineault (has not signed with Moncton but Quebec have started to negociate with him), Evan Shaw (was drafted by an other team but finally signed with quebec), Joey Ryan (same as Evan Shaw). They don't want to be on a too small city where everyone speaks only in french, and in addition now they know that there is 8 americans in quebec so the future drafted american player will be more interest to play for the remparts. Here is the situation of the Q only quebec have american player.

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10-21-2003, 09:38 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfernic
The Remparts are the exeption, American player like (Adam Pineault (has not signed with Moncton but Quebec have started to negociate with him), Evan Shaw (was drafted by an other team but finally signed with quebec), Joey Ryan (same as Evan Shaw). They don't want to be on a too small city where everyone speaks only in french, and in addition now they know that there is 8 americans in quebec so the future drafted american player will be more interest to play for the remparts. Here is the situation of the Q only quebec have american player.
Wrong , Moncton have 3 , 4 with Pinault .. Victoriaville , Halifax both have 2 and it's logical to think that Lewiston will add more Americans over the years .

Charlottetown Cape Breton , Moncton , Lewiston and Bathurst are all english city and all the big market in the league like Quebec can bring Americans without much problem ...

Americans on Quebec Rempart :

Andricopoulos, Andrew , D , Beverly, MA, USA
Blanchette, Adam D , Berlin, CT, USA
Bletzer, Jay D , Boston, MASS, USA
Coughlin, Kevin LW , South Boston, MA, USA
Hennessy, Josh C , Rockland, MASS, USA( drafted by SJ )
LaVallee, Jordan LW , Corvallis, OR, USA
Laverdière, Justin RW , Woonsocket, RI, USA
Ryan, Joey D , Stoneham, MA, USA
Shaw, Evan , D , Narragansett, RI, USA

American in Q :

Dilorenzo, Michael , Goalie , Schenectady, NY, USA - Halifax
Farrell, Rory , D-Man ...Boston, MASS, USA - Baie Comeau
Gates, Bobby , D , Providence, RI, USA - Lewiston
Lane, Jesse , D Boston, MASS, USA - Victoriaville ( drafted by CAR )
Lapierre, Ryan , LW , Rhode Island, USA - Victoriaville
Lovejoy, Ben , D , Concord, NH, USA - Moncton
McGuirk, Brian , C , Danvers, MA, USA - Moncton
Melanson, Mathieu AD , New-York, USA - Chicoutimi ( drafted by MIN )
Murphy, Dan , G , Jacksonville, FLO, USA - Gatineau
Pineault, Adam , RW , Holyoke, MA, USA - Moncton
Schultz, Greg , RW , Springfield, MA, USA - Moncton
Sharrow, Jim , D , Framingham, MA, USA - Halifax ( drafted by ATL )
Pouliot, James , C , Manchester, NH, USA - Halifax

For a Total of 23 Americans ... a complete team .

Note : Most of them are from the region of Boston , look like they produce some good players .

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