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01-07-2006, 02:07 AM
  #26
interminded
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuJo#31
Is there was any question of who should be our number #1 goaltender for the season....I think that Manny showed to Babcock that it is a clear choice!

Legace

Of course, that's why Ozzie will start against Dallas...

Quote:
Babcock was asked if Manny would play against Dallas, and he said "No, Ozzie will..he played great last time against them, and he's gonna get the start on Sunday."
Dude, don't stir up the goalie question again.
It's same old story after every game ...




I'm glad to see Manny is back and I'm glad to see he plays good and the Wings win games.

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01-07-2006, 02:25 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interminded
Of course, that's why Ozzie will start against Dallas...



Dude, don't stir up the goalie question again.
It's same old story after every game ...




I'm glad to see Manny is back and I'm glad to see he plays good and the Wings win games.
That is not my intention. Just wanted to say that Manny made a strong case for himself the last 2 games. That is all!

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01-07-2006, 09:28 AM
  #28
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Just wanted to say that I'm glad to see the Wings victorious against a solid opponent (who is vieing with us for division leader) on the second of back to back games.

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01-07-2006, 10:00 AM
  #29
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I didn't think this deserved a new thread, so I'll stick it in here.

A few of you (Higgy inparticular) knew that I made a comment on the Nashville board regarding this game. (One of their guys was b****ing about diving, so I stepped in to say "Like the Sullivan dive?") And then I get all this hatred towards me! Yes, I am a NOOB, but I thought I could post comments on other boards!?

Plus my comment was completely true, Sullivan went down like a sniper took him out! I watch alot of soccer so I know a "diver" when I see one!

Is it like "Bloods and Crips"? lol, I can't go over to their side flashing the "red"?? lol

Any input would be grateful for this newbie!


Last edited by guvnor1983: 01-07-2006 at 10:08 AM.
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01-07-2006, 01:59 PM
  #30
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Lang must go
He floats around on the ice, turning over the puck and giving a C- effort on the backcheck. I can't figure this guy out, he gets a ton of assists, but still looks like he is giving it 60%. If Robert Lang continues his below adequate work ethic, I think Holland should trade him or at least not re-sign him, if that would even be possible due to the cap. Lang is streaky when it comes to giving it 110% on the ice, which can cost you in a big game.

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01-07-2006, 03:18 PM
  #31
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Lang is not a winger and not defensively responisble enough to be a 3rd liner on this team. He is a first line center that needs a ton of minutes to produce. Not to mention that the Wings have Flip and Hudler possibly for next season. Both of which are true centers and should make the lineup. If the Wings can get a scoring Winger for Lang I'd make the trade.

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01-07-2006, 08:13 PM
  #32
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I don't want to rake Lang over the coals entirely. He was probably the best forward in the Nashville series last year. When he wants to use his size, he's very good. He and Shanahan make for a good duo but since Shanny is becoming Datsyuk's new Brett Hull...Lang doesn't have a scorer to pass to. Williams and Samuelsson are nice players but not in Shanahan's league.

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01-07-2006, 08:29 PM
  #33
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A. Why does the third line have to be a defensive line? Heaven forbid we run out a third line that has players who can find the back of the net...

B. Lang is producing at a clip of .97 ppg with the ice time he's getting now. Seems pretty damn good to me.

C. I'm fairly certain Hudler has been on the wing all season in GR and has never been good at faceoffs. And even without Lang, one of them would have to center the third line, which people have complained endlessly about "wasting" a skill player on the third line and one of them would have to move to wing because I can't see either kicking Datsyuk or Zetterberg out of the middle.

If we can get the right return for anyone on a team, they're probably tradeable, but Lang is being treated like the red-headed stepchild.

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01-07-2006, 09:27 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guvnor1983
I didn't think this deserved a new thread, so I'll stick it in here.

A few of you (Higgy inparticular) knew that I made a comment on the Nashville board regarding this game. (One of their guys was b****ing about diving, so I stepped in to say "Like the Sullivan dive?") And then I get all this hatred towards me! Yes, I am a NOOB, but I thought I could post comments on other boards!?

Plus my comment was completely true, Sullivan went down like a sniper took him out! I watch alot of soccer so I know a "diver" when I see one!

Is it like "Bloods and Crips"? lol, I can't go over to their side flashing the "red"?? lol

Any input would be grateful for this newbie!
Welcome to the board. We are a good group here on this board.

Just be careful what you say on other teams boards. Nobody likes a troll.

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01-07-2006, 09:30 PM
  #35
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Here is what I will say about Lang. Norrisnick and I have discussed this a little bit on the Trade rumor forum.

Trading Lang this season does not make the Wings better. They wont get a better player in return for him. Mike Illitch is about winning...not salary dumping. So the Wings wont trade Lang just to get him off the books.

Unless they get a top defensman in return...and I mean a top 2-3 guy...then I think its just plain silly to even think of trading him. He hasnt been great and yet he is still averaging almost a point per game. He hasnt even sniffed any kind of hot streak this year.

Trading Lang does not make the Wings better this season. So...you dont trade him.

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01-07-2006, 09:35 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guvnor1983
I didn't think this deserved a new thread, so I'll stick it in here.

A few of you (Higgy inparticular) knew that I made a comment on the Nashville board regarding this game. (One of their guys was b****ing about diving, so I stepped in to say "Like the Sullivan dive?") And then I get all this hatred towards me! Yes, I am a NOOB, but I thought I could post comments on other boards!?

Plus my comment was completely true, Sullivan went down like a sniper took him out! I watch alot of soccer so I know a "diver" when I see one!

Is it like "Bloods and Crips"? lol, I can't go over to their side flashing the "red"?? lol

Any input would be grateful for this newbie!
First of all, of course you can go to another board and post something..there is nothing stopping you from doing that. Just because some other people are kinda "sore losers" does not mean you can't say what you want. And especially if it's the truth. If, in the words of Jack Nicholson, "You can't handle the truth", well, that is their problem and not ours. So if you thought he dove (which he did, I'll back you up on that one), then say so. Don't be ashamed to say so!

Rule one, don't sweat the little stuff...rule two, it's all little stuff.

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01-07-2006, 09:41 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
Here is what I will say about Lang. Norrisnick and I have discussed this a little bit on the Trade rumor forum.

Trading Lang this season does not make the Wings better. They wont get a better player in return for him. Mike Illitch is about winning...not salary dumping. So the Wings wont trade Lang just to get him off the books.

Unless they get a top defensman in return...and I mean a top 2-3 guy...then I think its just plain silly to even think of trading him. He hasnt been great and yet he is still averaging almost a point per game. He hasnt even sniffed any kind of hot streak this year.

Trading Lang does not make the Wings better this season. So...you dont trade him.
We might be able to get a #3 guy (Witt, Salei, Carney, etc...). We won't get a player that is equal or better than Lang but (with the right trade) we will get a player we desperately NEED on our blueline. We can't go into the playoffs with a 44 year old and a surgically repaired rookie in our top 4. They're good players but that's just not wise management when you also have three 1st line centers on the team.

It's one of those the whole being greater than the sum of all parts things. Sure if you add up the skill of the individual guys having Lang will add up to more, but a steady defenseman would make the whole package better. Plus with Lang alternating between 3rd line wing and center we could bring up one of our youngsters to fill that role. Won't be as good, but with a better D he won't have to be.

end of rambling.

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01-07-2006, 09:58 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
We might be able to get a #3 guy (Witt, Salei, Carney, etc...). We won't get a player that is equal or better than Lang but (with the right trade) we will get a player we desperately NEED on our blueline. We can't go into the playoffs with a 44 year old and a surgically repaired rookie in our top 4. They're good players but that's just not wise management when you also have three 1st line centers on the team.

It's one of those the whole being greater than the sum of all parts things. Sure if you add up the skill of the individual guys having Lang will add up to more, but a steady defenseman would make the whole package better. Plus with Lang alternating between 3rd line wing and center we could bring up one of our youngsters to fill that role. Won't be as good, but with a better D he won't have to be.

end of rambling.
The Wings have more depth problems at forward then they do at D. When Lang is gone who plays? Yzerman gets more minutes, which is not necessarily a good thing. And who knows when Stevie will go down with another injury? Mowers will be in the lineup each and every night. Some AHL'er gets called up (probably a vet...not Filpulla or Hudler) to become the 13th forward. Or we get to see more of Rivers...which is not good. The Wings forward corps is thin on numbers. Very thin. Its almost rediculously thin at forward for the Wings. Think about it.

When Kronwall returns atleast the Wings will have depth at D. Lidstrom, Schneider, Kronwall, Chelios, Woolley, Lebda, Lilja, Rivers and even Quincey if they get desperate.

The numbers are there at D atleast.

It makes no sense to me to trade Lang when the Wings have no depth at the forward position. None...zero...nada.

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01-07-2006, 10:12 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
The Wings have more depth problems at forward then they do at D. When Lang is gone who plays? Yzerman gets more minutes, which is not necessarily a good thing. And who knows when Stevie will go down with another injury? Mowers will be in the lineup each and every night. Some AHL'er gets called up (probably a vet...not Filpulla or Hudler) to become the 13th forward. Or we get to see more of Rivers...which is not good. The Wings forward corps is thin on numbers. Very thin. Its almost rediculously thin at forward for the Wings. Think about it.

When Kronwall returns atleast the Wings will have depth at D. Lidstrom, Schneider, Kronwall, Chelios, Woolley, Lebda, Lilja, Rivers and even Quincey if they get desperate.

The numbers are there at D atleast.

It makes no sense to me to trade Lang when the Wings have no depth at the forward position. None...zero...nada.
We're back to the issue of a 44 year old and a surgically repaired rookie in our top 4. If you would consider that list defensive DEPTH that's better than our forward depth then I don't know what to say to convince you otherwise.

We'd have four solid centers in Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Draper, and Franzen. Shanahan, Samuelsson, Williams, Holmstrom, Maltby, Yzerman, Cleary, Mowers, Hudler, Filppula, Bootland, Ellis, etc... on the wings. Weaker than with Lang? Absolutely but weaker than our defense? Not a chance.

Woolley, Lebda, and Rivers weren't even supposed to be on our roster at the beginning of the year and we've got two of them in our top 6 and none of them make me feel at all secure if we need to protect a lead.

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01-07-2006, 11:55 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
We're back to the issue of a 44 year old and a surgically repaired rookie in our top 4. If you would consider that list defensive DEPTH that's better than our forward depth then I don't know what to say to convince you otherwise.

We'd have four solid centers in Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Draper, and Franzen. Shanahan, Samuelsson, Williams, Holmstrom, Maltby, Yzerman, Cleary, Mowers, Hudler, Filppula, Bootland, Ellis, etc... on the wings. Weaker than with Lang? Absolutely but weaker than our defense? Not a chance.

Woolley, Lebda, and Rivers weren't even supposed to be on our roster at the beginning of the year and we've got two of them in our top 6 and none of them make me feel at all secure if we need to protect a lead.
I dont know Nick. I just think we are going to have to agree to disagree. I would rather take the chance with Kronwall and Chelios on the blueline over possibly having to resort to Rivers, Mowers, Bootland or Ellis at forward.

Do you really want to go into the playoffs with Mark Mowers as an everyday player and having a Darryl Bootland or Matt Ellis being the next in line?

The Wings need help at forward. They shouldnt be trading a top 6 forward averaging a point per game while he is slumping and who, by the way, is 2nd on the team in +/- to boot.

I seem to be in the minority on this for some reason. But I dont see any way that trading Lang would benefit the Wings THIS season. If they dump him in the offseason, so be it. But it wont be any benefit to them this year.


Last edited by Higgy4: 01-08-2006 at 12:11 AM.
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01-08-2006, 12:11 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
I dont know Nick. I just think we are going to have to agree to disagree. I would rather take the chance with Kronwall and Chelios over possibly having to resort to Rivers, Mowers, Bootland or Ellis.

Do you really want to go into the playoffs with Mark Mowers as an everyday player and having a Darryl Bootland or Matt Ellis being the next in line?

The Wings need forward help.
Over Woolley, Rivers, Lilja, Lebda on D and Chelios at 44 and Kronwall coming off ACL surgery forced into our top 4?

Absolutely.

We need a steady defenseman that can eat 15-20+ HARD playoff minutes a night. That's a much bigger problem than which forward plays 4 minutes on the 4th line.

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01-08-2006, 12:12 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Over Woolley, Rivers, Lilja, Lebda on D and Chelios at 44 and Kronwall coming off ACL surgery forced into our top 4?

Absolutely.

We need a steady defenseman that can eat 15-20+ HARD playoff minutes a night. That's a much bigger problem than which forward plays 4 minutes on the 4th line.
I think you are nuts.

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01-08-2006, 12:26 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
We need a steady defenseman that can eat 15-20+ HARD playoff minutes a night.
Sean Hill.

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01-08-2006, 01:13 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Higgy4
I think you are nuts.
So do I, but that's not the issue here.

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01-08-2006, 01:51 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Winger98
A. Why does the third line have to be a defensive line? Heaven forbid we run out a third line that has players who can find the back of the net...

B. Lang is producing at a clip of .97 ppg with the ice time he's getting now. Seems pretty damn good to me.

C. I'm fairly certain Hudler has been on the wing all season in GR and has never been good at faceoffs. And even without Lang, one of them would have to center the third line, which people have complained endlessly about "wasting" a skill player on the third line and one of them would have to move to wing because I can't see either kicking Datsyuk or Zetterberg out of the middle.

If we can get the right return for anyone on a team, they're probably tradeable, but Lang is being treated like the red-headed stepchild.
You have some good points but I don't think stats tell the whole story. Lang has been almost invicible all season. He produces but he also floats. He also gives the puck away a ton, with all the drop passes to no one. He is a playmaker. The Wings already have Dats, Z, and Williams. Shanny and Sammy are the only real shooters on the team. Honestly I think Flip will make the team next year over Hudler. He jas much more of a complete game from all accounts. Lang has taken quite a few bad penalties this year. The only player on the team he has chemistry with is Shanny who has been put on Dats Wing. He hasn't used his body hardly at all this season, and I don't mean checking. I just think if the Wings could get a winger to compliment Dats or Z that would be better for the team. If Lang plays like he did last season keep him, but to this point he has not. Last season he was the Wings best forward in the playoffs. This season he is easily the 6th best forward on the Wings. He is the type of player that needs 1st line minutes to play his best. Lang should be this teams at least 3rd best forward. Possibly even the best. To put it simply the Wings have 3 1st line centers, of which Lang is the worst and Williams as the teams top RW. I don't advocate dumping Lang for picks or dumping him for crappy players, but if the Wings can get a good winger for him I think they should do it.

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01-08-2006, 02:06 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by 19 for president
You have some good points but I don't think stats tell the whole story. Lang has been almost invicible all season. He produces but he also floats. He also gives the puck away a ton, with all the drop passes to no one. He is a playmaker. The Wings already have Dats, Z, and Williams. Shanny and Sammy are the only real shooters on the team. Honestly I think Flip will make the team next year over Hudler. He jas much more of a complete game from all accounts. Lang has taken quite a few bad penalties this year. The only player on the team he has chemistry with is Shanny who has been put on Dats Wing. He hasn't used his body hardly at all this season, and I don't mean checking. I just think if the Wings could get a winger to compliment Dats or Z that would be better for the team. If Lang plays like he did last season keep him, but to this point he has not. Last season he was the Wings best forward in the playoffs. This season he is easily the 6th best forward on the Wings. He is the type of player that needs 1st line minutes to play his best. Lang should be this teams at least 3rd best forward. Possibly even the best. To put it simply the Wings have 3 1st line centers, of which Lang is the worst and Williams as the teams top RW. I don't advocate dumping Lang for picks or dumping him for crappy players, but if the Wings can get a good winger for him I think they should do it.
1) The Wings will not get a top notch player in return for Lang.

2) See #1.

I realize that most of you are disappointed in Langs play. I also realize that Lang is a center. But...the fact still remains that he is at a point per game average RIGHT NOW. All the while we have people complaining about his play. We have people on here wanting to dump him for picks and 3rd pairing dmen (Witt, Salei). He is also the 2nd best +/- player on the team...tied with Samuelsson. I here all this crap about him being a power play specialist when only 1/3 of his points have come with the man advantage.

How many point per game players are being crucified by their own fans this season? I am going to go out on a limb and say....not many. Why is it that this team ALWAYS needs a whipping boy?

Sounds like a witch hunt to me. He makes alot of money and he isnt putting up GIGANTIC numbers. So he is the next man on the "we should trade...." list.

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01-08-2006, 02:46 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
1) The Wings will not get a top notch player in return for Lang.

2) See #1.

I realize that most of you are disappointed in Langs play. I also realize that Lang is a center. But...the fact still remains that he is at a point per game average RIGHT NOW. All the while we have people complaining about his play. We have people on here wanting to dump him for picks and 3rd pairing dmen (Witt, Salei). He is also the 2nd best +/- player on the team...tied with Samuelsson. I here all this crap about him being a power play specialist when only 1/3 of his points have come with the man advantage.

How many point per game players are being crucified by their own fans this season? I am going to go out on a limb and say....not many. Why is it that this team ALWAYS needs a whipping boy?

Sounds like a witch hunt to me. He makes alot of money and he isnt putting up GIGANTIC numbers. So he is the next man on the "we should trade...." list.
1.) Witt and Salei wouldn't be third pairing defensemen. Either one would sit alongside Lidstrom or alongside Schneider on the top two pairings. They'd be #3 on the depth chart after Nick and Matt and ahead of the ageless wonder and the bionic man.

2.) Lang is a good player and is playing pretty well.

3.) We have glaring weaknesses on defense.

4.) This is less a witchhunt and more a realization that Lang is likely our most tradeable asset to fix any holes we may have on our team. *cough*defense*cough* Granted we won't get as much full value out of him as we could out of trading say Dats, Hank, or Kronwall, but we need those guys to flesh out our team for the next decade. I don't see Lang coming back after next season (if we don't trade him before that). We have three 1st line centers and not enough 1st line wingers to fill out three top notch scoring lines so that sort of wastes one of them, either by not having good enough wingers or being doubled up and played out of position where they are less effective. So if I were to move one of our three scoring centers am I going to choose one of Hank and Pavel or would I choose Lang?

Have I gotten to the point where I should just post the beating horse smiley? Honestly I like Lang. I have nothing against his playing style or his production. I just don't like our defense as it currently stands. And perhaps Lang would be happier on a team that needs him more where he can play the 20minutes a night like he did last season with Washington. He had an interesting comment recently when asked about playing the wing. I don't remember the exact quote but it was something along the lines of there being too many good players. He didn't sound too happy about being on the wing. I don't think he'd complain, but he's not being used to the best of his abilities and that doesn't help him and it doesn't help us.

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01-08-2006, 10:33 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
1.) Witt and Salei wouldn't be third pairing defensemen. Either one would sit alongside Lidstrom or alongside Schneider on the top two pairings. They'd be #3 on the depth chart after Nick and Matt and ahead of the ageless wonder and the bionic man.

2.) Lang is a good player and is playing pretty well.

3.) We have glaring weaknesses on defense.

4.) This is less a witchhunt and more a realization that Lang is likely our most tradeable asset to fix any holes we may have on our team. *cough*defense*cough* Granted we won't get as much full value out of him as we could out of trading say Dats, Hank, or Kronwall, but we need those guys to flesh out our team for the next decade. I don't see Lang coming back after next season (if we don't trade him before that). We have three 1st line centers and not enough 1st line wingers to fill out three top notch scoring lines so that sort of wastes one of them, either by not having good enough wingers or being doubled up and played out of position where they are less effective. So if I were to move one of our three scoring centers am I going to choose one of Hank and Pavel or would I choose Lang?

Have I gotten to the point where I should just post the beating horse smiley? Honestly I like Lang. I have nothing against his playing style or his production. I just don't like our defense as it currently stands. And perhaps Lang would be happier on a team that needs him more where he can play the 20minutes a night like he did last season with Washington. He had an interesting comment recently when asked about playing the wing. I don't remember the exact quote but it was something along the lines of there being too many good players. He didn't sound too happy about being on the wing. I don't think he'd complain, but he's not being used to the best of his abilities and that doesn't help him and it doesn't help us.
Even though I think the Wings need help at forward, I have said that I would trade Lang for a top pairing defensman. When someone comes up with better names other than Salei or Brendan Witt let me know.

I see your point completely if you can give me some better names than those 2.

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01-08-2006, 11:44 AM
  #49
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They won't trade Lang because he makes too much. Look at the teams in question - Anaheim has Carney and Salei, and they just gave away an aging, overpaid center in Fedorov. Lang is better than Fedorov, but Anaheim is not going to take him on. Washington won't want him either. They're looking for cheap, young players and Lang is neither.

Carney is the guy I would go after if I were Ken Holland. He plays exactly the style of D that the Wings are lacking - tough and physical but not a dinosaur like Lilja. He can still move pretty well, and he can log a lot of minutes. He's the type of player that would be a perfect fit with Schneider. He would sit back and do his thing while Schneider jumps up all the time. They shouldn't give up more than a mid to low pick for him, or a combination of a low pick and someone like Kopecky or Meech, who have a lot of guys ahead of them and wouldn't be sorely missed.

The other thing we have to remember here is that because of the cap, the Wings don't really have any flexibility here. Carney is about the only guy out there that might be cheap enough to pick up and wouldn't cause cap issues.

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01-08-2006, 12:13 PM
  #50
norrisnick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
Even though I think the Wings need help at forward, I have said that I would trade Lang for a top pairing defensman. When someone comes up with better names other than Salei or Brendan Witt let me know.

I see your point completely if you can give me some better names than those 2.
I can toss out better names, but they won't be available and/or a trade with Lang won't fetch them.

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