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KHL in the Champions Hockey League

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Old
03-01-2017, 11:52 AM
  #26
Exarz
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Originally Posted by bordshockeypampen View Post
I don't see any point in cooperation between CHL and KHL. Their ambitions are in completely different directions. The CHL wants to create profit for the clubs, while the KHL wants to create an empire.

Having a few European KHL clubs in CHL could increase the profit for the CHL clubs, but with Asian KHL clubs the costs would probably be too high.

And from KHL:s point of view, the CHL is only a rival. If a KHL team wins the CHL, the KHL wouldn't gain much from it, but if they lose, it would look bad for the KHL.
This. Sure, the KHL is aiming to make profit and it will take some time, but I believe it's better for them to focus on their own product at the moment. The best way to go would be to bring back the Victoria Cup, either with the CHL and KHL champion, or spice it up with the Stanley Cup champion as well. I don't see how the KHL could fit in CHL in their calendar either, since they barely got time for the EHT.

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03-01-2017, 07:31 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by bordshockeypampen View Post
I don't see any point in cooperation between CHL and KHL. Their ambitions are in completely different directions. The CHL wants to create profit for the clubs, while the KHL wants to create an empire.

Having a few European KHL clubs in CHL could increase the profit for the CHL clubs, but with Asian KHL clubs the costs would probably be too high.

And from KHL:s point of view, the CHL is only a rival. If a KHL team wins the CHL, the KHL wouldn't gain much from it, but if they lose, it would look bad for the KHL.
Since the partitipants would be decided on merit like the other Euroepan clubs there's, Asian KHL club wouldn't have to worry about that.

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03-01-2017, 09:39 PM
  #28
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a best-at-3 or best-at-5 series between both champs (CHL-KHL) is a dream for every hockey fan.

And obviously a serie between KHL & NHL champ,hockey-heaven.

The best scenario.IMO for the timing and schedule,is the Spengler cup.
I always lobby for remodeling this tournament into a a real Champions-of the Champions.


what about the 3 champions in a round-robin of 2 games each team, and the best two fight in a final?

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03-02-2017, 01:56 AM
  #29
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Since the partitipants would be decided on merit like the other Euroepan clubs there's, Asian KHL club wouldn't have to worry about that.
Admiral will see to your objections. I guess any KHL playoff team is more than worthy to play against any european team.

But you shed light on the main problem. Europeans have little knowledge of the KHL. And KHL fans vice versa. Look, even me, being considered a hardcore hockey fan around here wouldn't tell you with certainty if I was really interested in attending games against even finnish or swedish teams let alone german(no offence). That as far as the interest goes.

The idea as such is interesting. But you have to get european fans on board to for say visiting games in Russia. Spark some related tourism, promote the thing so home fans fill the stands. That's work. And the CHL should invest money AND time in it. KHL alone won't be interested to spend alone to promote.

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03-02-2017, 06:52 AM
  #30
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Admiral will see to your objections. I guess any KHL playoff team is more than worthy to play against any european team.

But you shed light on the main problem. Europeans have little knowledge of the KHL. And KHL fans vice versa. Look, even me, being considered a hardcore hockey fan around here wouldn't tell you with certainty if I was really interested in attending games against even finnish or swedish teams let alone german(no offence). That as far as the interest goes.

The idea as such is interesting. But you have to get european fans on board to for say visiting games in Russia. Spark some related tourism, promote the thing so home fans fill the stands. That's work. And the CHL should invest money AND time in it. KHL alone won't be interested to spend alone to promote.
CHL chairman Baumann was asked in Finnish hockey magazine Jääkiekkolehti about where he sees CHL in 10 years:

"CHL has developed into the hockey equivalent of the UEAFA Champion's League but much cheaper for the consumer. KHL is on board, Victoria Cup will be played between CHL champion and NHL champion. Teams are more familair to each otehr and to the fans and rivalries have formed."

If the KHL economic model is brought to a sinsible level with a proper salary cap and more sensible salaries and CHL prize money continue's to increase, there would be potential for actual profit for KHL teams. Scheduling might prove difficult but if the NHL is not on board with the Olympics, Europeans leagues will have to work that out next season already.


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03-02-2017, 08:33 AM
  #31
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CHL chairman Baumann was asked in Finnsih hockey magazine Jääkiekkolehti about where he sees CHL in 10 years:

"CHL has developed into the hockey equivalent of the UEAFA Champion's League but much cheaper for the consumer. KHL is on board, Victoria Cup will be played between CHL champion and NHL champion. Teams are more familair to each otehr and to the fans and rivalries have formed."

If the KHL economic model is brought to a sinsible level with a proper salary cap and more sensible salaries and CHL prize money continue's to increase, there would be potential for actual profit for KHL teams. Scheduling might prove difficult but if the NHL is not on board with the Olympics, Europeans leagues will have to work that out next season already.
You still don't get the fact that we don't need the CHL much. Whatever it's officials brag it to be. Right now I as a fan am not interested. They are not any close to football's champions league.

If the CHL wants to be that, they will have to live with sincere KHL competition AND they must get the KHL interested both financially and image wise.

It is not the question of being profitable now. The KHL must see how it helps the KHL improve it's product, earn money, improve it's image and popularity AND expand(that's what other leagues fear and oppose). And all that long term.

I don't see a proper CHL(i.e. with KHL fully involved) any time soon.

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03-02-2017, 09:54 AM
  #32
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You still don't get the fact that we don't need the CHL much. Whatever it's officials brag it to be. Right now I as a fan am not interested. They are not any close to football's champions league.

If the CHL wants to be that, they will have to live with sincere KHL competition AND they must get the KHL interested both financially and image wise.

It is not the question of being profitable now. The KHL must see how it helps the KHL improve it's product, earn money, improve it's image and popularity AND expand(that's what other leagues fear and oppose). And all that long term.

I don't see a proper CHL(i.e. with KHL fully involved) any time soon.
One would think playing in the CHL would increase exposure significantly and potential to attract more sponsors to both the CHL competition and the leagues partiticipating in it.

There's also zero chance of being anywhere close to the football equivalent due to how big the sport is in Europe. But if they can get a similar workind concept that can attract the hockey fans in Europe and be profitable for the clubs in 5-10 years, even that is a success. Even though soem club bosses hope the CHL would eventually lead to a pna-European league, I don't think it's a realistic concept because the sport is so small (less money than in bigger sports and travel expenses = not a working concept) and lives off of local rivalries.

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03-02-2017, 12:20 PM
  #33
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One would think playing in the CHL would increase exposure significantly and potential to attract more sponsors to both the CHL competition and the leagues partiticipating in it.

There's also zero chance of being anywhere close to the football equivalent due to how big the sport is in Europe. But if they can get a similar workind concept that can attract the hockey fans in Europe and be profitable for the clubs in 5-10 years, even that is a success. Even though soem club bosses hope the CHL would eventually lead to a pna-European league, I don't think it's a realistic concept because the sport is so small (less money than in bigger sports and travel expenses = not a working concept) and lives off of local rivalries.
The problem is there are no hockey sponsors in Europe save Russia. I mean, sponsors which are ready to invest big money. Finland is the most hockey country in Europe, and SKA's budget is probably bigger, than all Liiga teams combined... or not, but still money just isn't comparable.

Jokerit has probably a few times more money, than any Liiga team, and it's still not enough to compete vs KHL bests. Where are those Finnish hockey sponsors? Nowhere. The same can be said about Sweden, except for Swedish teams have slightly more money, than Finnish ones. Swiss teams don't have big sponsors as well. And nothing will get changed in 10 years.


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03-02-2017, 01:30 PM
  #34
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The problem is there are no hockey sponsors in Europe save Russia. I mean, sponsors which are ready to invest big money. Finland is the most hockey country in Europe, and SKA's budget is probably bigger, than all Liiga teams combined... or not, but still money just isn't comparable.

Jokerit has probably a few times more money, than any Liiga team, and it's still not enough to compete vs KHL bests. Where are those Finnish hockey sponsors? Nowhere. The same can be said about Sweden, except for Swedish teams have slightly more money, than Finnish ones. Swiss teams don't have big sponsors as well. And nothing will get changed in 10 years.
Their turnover was just barely more than Kärpät...

As I've said before, sports sponsorship has never been as big in Finland as it is in Sweden. State of economy of course pays a factor but even during good tiems, cpmpanies have been reluctant to put that much money into sports in Finland. E.g. Swedish clubs in all level of sports are able to attract local sponsors much better than Finnish ones.

Also why do people contantly bring up SKA's budget into the discussion? As far as I know, they don't represent Russian club hockey as a prime example. They're more like an aberration in the league.


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03-03-2017, 01:59 PM
  #35
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CHL chairman Baumann was asked in Finnsih hockey magazine Jääkiekkolehti about where he sees CHL in 10 years:

"CHL has developed into the hockey equivalent of the UEAFA Champion's League but much cheaper for the consumer. KHL is on board, Victoria Cup will be played between CHL champion and NHL champion. Teams are more familair to each otehr and to the fans and rivalries have formed."

If the KHL economic model is brought to a sinsible level with a proper salary cap and more sensible salaries and CHL prize money continue's to increase, there would be potential for actual profit for KHL teams. Scheduling might prove difficult but if the NHL is not on board with the Olympics, Europeans leagues will have to work that out next season already.
CHL Chairman is in dream land

I hate how these projects always compare to 'UEFA champions league' in soccer. Isn't this hockey? We don't need to copy Fifa or copy basketball. Sure its working for them but thats their business.

Hockey, for whatever reason, seems to be a very local sport in Europe. I have no issue with this but when you try to put DEL V SHL NOBODY CARES! Look at the CHL attendances for the 'main' leagues. Swedish fans don't care, Finnish fans don't care and Swiss fans don't care. Who cares? British fans because it gives their small team bragging rights when they beat a bigger team, French fans ect.

The only kind of Hockey champions league that can ever work, I feel, is the KHL. Simply because of the money. Sure the CHL is increasing prize funds ect but its till a glorified and over hyped pre-season tournament with a very boring and flawed format. Next season we will probably have 92 teams competing

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03-03-2017, 09:30 PM
  #36
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CHL Chairman is in dream land

I hate how these projects always compare to 'UEFA champions league' in soccer. Isn't this hockey? We don't need to copy Fifa or copy basketball. Sure its working for them but thats their business.

Hockey, for whatever reason, seems to be a very local sport in Europe. I have no issue with this but when you try to put DEL V SHL NOBODY CARES! Look at the CHL attendances for the 'main' leagues. Swedish fans don't care, Finnish fans don't care and Swiss fans don't care. Who cares? British fans because it gives their small team bragging rights when they beat a bigger team, French fans ect.

The only kind of Hockey champions league that can ever work, I feel, is the KHL. Simply because of the money. Sure the CHL is increasing prize funds ect but its till a glorified and over hyped pre-season tournament with a very boring and flawed format. Next season we will probably have 92 teams competing
You're obvioulsy too young to remember but the European cup was a big thing in the early to mid 90s. Kölner Haien were fairly known to Finnish hockey fans from that competition, especially due to Jokerit winning it in 1996 (match was broadcast live on national tv).

Second, when it's all very well known that no KHL teams makes profit yet many CHL clubs are making and with the prize money, there's a chance of making more money. Or have been completely oblivious to the 28 million euro losses Jokerit picked up in their first two season and and the ~10 million they'll pick up from this season? It's easy to see there's moeny to be made (meaning actual profit) in CHL, not the KHL.

And third, you really should do your research better, it's been well known for some time (there is a thread for it at the International Tournaments section) the number of teams is ropping to 32 next season with clubs chosen on merit and league success.

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03-04-2017, 03:02 AM
  #37
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You're obvioulsy too young to remember but the European cup was a big thing in the early to mid 90s.
In mid 90s people thought tamagochi was cool and N64 the most advanced console ever.
Time to move on... we're in 2017

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03-04-2017, 06:33 AM
  #38
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In mid 90s people thought tamagochi was cool and N64 the most advanced console ever.
Time to move on... we're in 2017

So...you're advocating that people don'y really care about clubs from outside their own countries and that KHL should forget about expansion as well because of that?

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03-04-2017, 11:08 AM
  #39
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You're obvioulsy too young to remember but the European cup was a big thing in the early to mid 90s. Kölner Haien were fairly known to Finnish hockey fans from that competition, especially due to Jokerit winning it in 1996 (match was broadcast live on national tv).

Second, when it's all very well known that no KHL teams makes profit yet many CHL clubs are making and with the prize money, there's a chance of making more money. Or have been completely oblivious to the 28 million euro losses Jokerit picked up in their first two season and and the ~10 million they'll pick up from this season? It's easy to see there's moeny to be made (meaning actual profit) in CHL, not the KHL.

And third, you really should do your research better, it's been well known for some time (there is a thread for it at the International Tournaments section) the number of teams is ropping to 32 next season with clubs chosen on merit and league success.
I remember the Euro Cup but that isn't the topic. The EC was great! But the Champions Hockey league is still seen by many as a glorified pre season cup and it shows with the attendance figures from the biggest teams.

My comment about 92 teams was sarcastic. I'm happy they know the format was bad and are trying to make it more interesting. But still when you have 5/6 Finns 6/5 Swedish it takes away the point of earning a right to play in this league.

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03-04-2017, 12:04 PM
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So...you're advocating that people don'y really care about clubs from outside their own countries and that KHL should forget about expansion as well because of that?
I'm advocating the fact that what was popular in the 90s not necessarily is/would be popular today.

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03-05-2017, 07:27 AM
  #41
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I remember the Euro Cup but that isn't the topic. The EC was great! But the Champions Hockey league is still seen by many as a glorified pre season cup and it shows with the attendance figures from the biggest teams.

My comment about 92 teams was sarcastic. I'm happy they know the format was bad and are trying to make it more interesting. But still when you have 5/6 Finns 6/5 Swedish it takes away the point of earning a right to play in this league.
The 5 Finns and 5 Swedes have earned their right by being successful. The UEFA Champion's League also awards leageus spots by the success of their clubs. There is a reason smaller leagues aren't guaranteed 4 spots.

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03-05-2017, 07:31 AM
  #42
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I'm advocating the fact that what was popular in the 90s not necessarily is/would be popular today.
Exposure helps. The competition was more covered back then. It was a bit of an afterthought when the Soviet Union was still in place and everyone knew ZSKA would win it. Once the Swedes and Finns got their first wins, the popularity rose. It's been evident with Frölunda's wins that interest rises with success.

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03-06-2017, 01:21 AM
  #43
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But still when you have 5/6 Finns 6/5 Swedish it takes away the point of earning a right to play in this league.
So having 5 teams from one nation makes CHL bad, but having 22 teams from one nation doesn't make KHL bad?

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03-06-2017, 02:09 PM
  #44
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So having 5 teams from one nation makes CHL bad, but having 22 teams from one nation doesn't make KHL bad?
KHL is the championship of Russia, its a totally difference concept to the CHL.

What I'm say is look at Euroleague basketball. As good as that competition is. Because of the A license and the B license you have the same teams over and over again.

In the CHL there were 8 Swedish teams competing that is why the format, I think should be changed.

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03-06-2017, 06:22 PM
  #45
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KHL is the championship of Russia, its a totally difference concept to the CHL.

What I'm say is look at Euroleague basketball. As good as that competition is. Because of the A license and the B license you have the same teams over and over again.

In the CHL there were 8 Swedish teams competing that is why the format, I think should be changed.
Repeating myself here, they are changing it already for next season. That is old news.

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03-07-2017, 01:33 AM
  #46
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KHL is the championship of Russia, its a totally difference concept to the CHL.

What I'm say is look at Euroleague basketball. As good as that competition is. Because of the A license and the B license you have the same teams over and over again.

In the CHL there were 8 Swedish teams competing that is why the format, I think should be changed.
You are right with Euroleague. Look, the league forced the clubs to play at least in 10k arenas since day XY. And it helped the league´s prestige. KHL has done the same, recommended the clubs to develop arena´s lighting, boards, ice, tv coverage, new arena must be at least for XY seats etc. Euroleague & KHL clubs have fulfilled the recommendations because they know they will play the league for next couple of years at least (licences in Euroleague as you said). Euro hockey clubs playing CHL are not wealthy, majority of them, so wont invest into arena/TV development. Because they dont know if they will play CHL next season. So why to invest, right? CHL made a big mistake when abandoning licence system, they should reduce amount of teams, but keeping licence system. Another mistake by CHL...

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03-07-2017, 07:52 AM
  #47
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It wasn't a license system, they were founders, ie. clubs that put money on the foundation of the tournament. Many of those clubs are fairly small and play in arenas that are well below 10K capacity and will continue to do so. E.g. Finnish clubs don't own their arenas, they are usually owned by the city that built them and they are not the sole users of the arenas.

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03-08-2017, 10:42 AM
  #48
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Repeating myself here, they are changing it already for next season. That is old news.
Even with a new format there are still too many 'founding members' from each country. So it still becomes a glorified Scandinavian superleage

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03-08-2017, 06:42 PM
  #49
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Even with a new format there are still too many 'founding members' from each country. So it still becomes a glorified Scandinavian superleage
Well it wouldn't run without them putting their own stake in it. And since the teams will be decided by merit, it will eliminate some founding members from next season's tournament already.


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03-17-2017, 12:17 PM
  #50
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What about the KHL?

As it is one of the CHL’s main goals to involve the KHL in the competition, the CHL Board reserves the right to award two additional wildcards for KHL teams with direct entry to the playoffs in the event that an agreement between the parties happens before the end of April.
source

Dont know what world they live in. Everyone knows that the KHL wont make any decision about joining the CHL (or expansion to Europe) this Spring, because the KHL is preparing new Strategy.

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