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Old
03-12-2017, 09:10 AM
  #26
Scoresberg
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Question:

If you cut a deal with LV to protect Willy or Jarny, which one do you protect?

33, for me.

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03-12-2017, 09:27 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoresberg View Post
Question:

If you cut a deal with LV to protect Willy or Jarny, which one do you protect?

33, for me.
Jarnkrok

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Old
03-12-2017, 09:37 AM
  #28
PredsV82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoresberg View Post
Question:

If you cut a deal with LV to protect Willy or Jarny, which one do you protect?

33, for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
Jarnkrok
you don't do it like that. You make the deal by specifying exactly who they will take(Smith). You don't give up assets and still have uncertainty.

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Old
03-12-2017, 09:48 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
you don't do it like that. You make the deal by specifying exactly who they will take(Smith). You don't give up assets and still have uncertainty.
Fair enough. I don't know how trades work involving the expansion draft, but I'll maintain that I'd rather keep Hook than Wilson if it came to it. In a perfect world we keep both and lose Smith.

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Old
03-12-2017, 09:51 AM
  #30
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Fair enough. I don't know how trades work involving the expansion draft, but I'll maintain that I'd rather keep Hook than Wilson if it came to it. In a perfect world we keep both and lose Smith.
trades work like any other trade. The trade would ostensibly be for "future considerations" but those FC's would be "take who we want you to take".

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03-12-2017, 09:56 AM
  #31
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It would be a gamble, but we could sign PA to a 1 year extension and request (by throwing in extras) that LV pick him. He's a vet and they are going to want a few vets that have only a year or two left so they can get their young guys going. The gamble comes in if they refuse to take him and we are stuck with PA.

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Old
03-12-2017, 10:21 AM
  #32
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Being stuck with Pa might not be so bad. He's a consistent scorer and is ~50p/season player in the NHL.

And V82, can you honestly see LV taking Smith? McPhee has said that good contracts are really important to him and Smiths' is starting to look horrible. So I think yes, our decision is between 19 and 33.

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Old
03-12-2017, 10:21 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
It would be a gamble, but we could sign PA to a 1 year extension and request (by throwing in extras) that LV pick him. He's a vet and they are going to want a few vets that have only a year or two left so they can get their young guys going. The gamble comes in if they refuse to take him and we are stuck with PA.
don't need to do that. If for some reason we want to keep all three of our exposed forwards we pay them to take Irwin or 2Bit

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Old
03-12-2017, 10:23 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoresberg View Post
.

And V82, can you honestly see LV taking Smith? McPhee has said that good contracts are really important to him and Smiths' is starting to look horrible. So I think yes, our decision is between 19 and 33.
I think because of his comments about good contracts, Jarnkrok is history unless we make a trade to keep him.

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Old
03-12-2017, 10:29 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoresberg View Post
Being stuck with Pa might not be so bad. He's a consistent scorer and is ~50p/season player in the NHL.

And V82, can you honestly see LV taking Smith? McPhee has said that good contracts are really important to him and Smiths' is starting to look horrible. So I think yes, our decision is between 19 and 33.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
I think because of his comments about good contracts, Jarnkrok is history unless we make a trade to keep him.
depends on whether GMGM wants one asset with a good contract or multiple assets. Who knows what his plan will be.

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Old
03-12-2017, 10:47 AM
  #36
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As long as McPhee doesn't ask Fabbro, Girard, Fiala or Kamenev, I'm down for protecting 19 and/or 33. If we don't trade to protect either, they're gonna take Hook which isn't the end of the world.

1st + Aberg + something little? Too much? Aberg would be pretty enticing for them. Lots of potential.

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Old
03-12-2017, 10:53 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoresberg View Post
As long as McPhee doesn't ask Fabbro, Girard, Fiala or Kamenev, I'm down for protecting 19 and/or 33. If we don't trade to protect either, they're gonna take Hook which isn't the end of the world.

1st + Aberg + something little? Too much? Aberg would be pretty enticing for them. Lots of potential.
You don't trade a first to keep Jarnkrok.

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Old
03-12-2017, 10:55 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
You don't trade a first to keep Jarnkrok.
That's debatable. Probably not a top-15 pick and if Hook is our #2C solution then you do it. Losing Aberg doesn't really sting he doesn't have a future with this club.

E: weak draft also this year.

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Old
03-12-2017, 11:11 AM
  #39
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All people talked about was needing a long term 2C at the deadline. Jarnkrok isn't really a 2C he is just there because we have nobody better. If they take Jarnkrok that forces Poile to actually go out and find a real 2C. Nobody knows who Vegas is going to pick because we haven't seen the list of all the players that will be available from all the teams. You can't just base it on who you would pick from a team without looking at who else you can get from others.

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Old
03-12-2017, 12:16 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoresberg View Post
As long as McPhee doesn't ask Fabbro, Girard, Fiala or Kamenev, I'm down for protecting 19 and/or 33. If we don't trade to protect either, they're gonna take Hook which isn't the end of the world.

1st + Aberg + something little? Too much? Aberg would be pretty enticing for them. Lots of potential.
So you think either Wilson or Jarnkrok one is worth a 1st, Aberg and another piece?

Before you answer keep in mind that most here would not consider Eck + a 1st and a prospect for Duchene....


There is no scenerio Wilson or Jarnkrok is worth that and if Poile did do that he should be fired not retired plain fired.

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Old
03-12-2017, 12:30 PM
  #41
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Well, let me put it this way. The package is probably worth if it gets LV to take Smith. It would get us to keep Willy and Jarny and get rid of Smith who's pretty worthless and get out of that horriböe contract. So yes, that package is worth as it's essentially 1st + Smith (negative value) + Aberg for Willy + Jarny.

Of course, this is in a situation where we aren't acquiring #2C for anyone and won't at least be needing a 1st for it.

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Old
03-12-2017, 12:42 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoresberg View Post
Well, let me put it this way. The package is probably worth if it gets LV to take Smith. It would get us to keep Willy and Jarny and get rid of Smith who's pretty worthless and get out of that horriböe contract. So yes, that package is worth as it's essentially 1st + Smith (negative value) + Aberg for Willy + Jarny.

Of course, this is in a situation where we aren't acquiring #2C for anyone and won't at least be needing a 1st for it.
How about Smith for Brouwer straight up? Both could use a change of scenery. Brouwer is better defensively and more physical but less skilled and older.

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Old
03-12-2017, 01:15 PM
  #43
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I don't think a team has EVER given up a 1st to an expansion team to keep a player. You make a deal for lesser pieces and lower picks. If LV insists on the 1st, plus everything else you've offered, you let them take who they want and be done with it. Jarnkrok isn't worth three pieces. Very few are.

Jarnkrok is also not the long term answer at 2C. He is averaging around .40 PPG and over his career he is around .35 PPG. Those are good 3C numbers and that's where he needs to be slotted.

The love affair some have with Krok around here is mind boggling. He's a good player but is a guy that is replaceable. I get how some are down on Wilson but at the end of the day, you always keep a bigger bodied player who can control the puck over a smaller guy who is average offensively. While Krok's D is good, it's not Selke material. If he had the ability to shut down opposing teams best forward on a nightly basis like a Kesler or Bergeron does, then sure, you think about keeping him.

I'll give the best reason for keeping Wilson before Krok too, the pass he made to Neal for the GWG yesterday. How many times does Wilson make a great pass like during a game? More often than not guys don't finish the play. He's a great playmaker that can go in to corners and control puck possession for us. That to me is invaluable and before some say, he gets paid way too much for what he produces, that may be true but certain things you don't measure on points alone. He creates chances. He allows us to keep the puck. He's hard to knock off the puck and he's a proven playoff player. Krok has not done it in the playoffs. Then some will say, well, he needs to do that in the regular season too. Fair enough but if I have a guy that is a .5 PPG during the regular season and around 1 PPG during the playoffs or a guy who is at .4 PPP during the regular season and does nothing in the playoffs, who do you think I want on my team?

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Old
03-12-2017, 01:43 PM
  #44
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Don't look at me, I'd take Wilson over Hook any day of the week and twice on Sunday. But we really can't afford to lose any centers if Poile doesn't have a plan other than Fisher for the #2C. Fisher could hang em up in the summer. Kamenev might still be too raw but I think he gets a shot in the NHL.

Wilson is better overall than Hook, AINEC. And we can't lose him. McPhee might appreciate Hook more.

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Old
03-12-2017, 02:01 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INDhockeyfan View Post
All people talked about was needing a long term 2C at the deadline. Jarnkrok isn't really a 2C he is just there because we have nobody better. If they take Jarnkrok that forces Poile to actually go out and find a real 2C.
I really hope you're not trying to sell this as a good thing. "Forcing" Poile means that the whole damned League will know he's super-desperate now, and we'll end up paying through the nose for a depth guy.

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Old
03-12-2017, 02:18 PM
  #46
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I'd trade Aberg+Mazanec or something similar for them to pick Smith. We get to keep Jarny and Wilson and they get several assets to keep or trade.

If we don't have a choice I'd protect Jarnkrok over Wilson.

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Old
03-12-2017, 02:52 PM
  #47
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So I pulled out my game theory analysis out and here's the rest of the NHL's problem, (ALSO Nashville's problem).

LV has 50 contracts to have. They are going to have 30 picks plus trades that will eat up a portion of that 50 so 20 at maximum. 20 spots to fill. Minus the signed Reid Duke. (Not the Magic: The Gathering player). So theoretically 19 contract spots after the expansion draft. Also, there is 30 picks for a max 23 man roster on the NHL level.

Most are projecting deals where team A picks up or protects a player for 2 contract players. This should fill the NHL and AHL roster. BUT it also limits LV in doing those kind of moves. My money says LV wants prospects/picks Also, not to draft players for the lower end of the rosters. If anything, If I'm GMGM, I'm trying to fill 18 of 23 spots on the NHL roster, fill the rest with trades and FAs and then build up the AHL roster and pipeline prospects. Economically, this draft is meh and those picks will not have value. The biggest value in trades are prospect rights and AHLers who are close to NHL.

Offering a contract to have LV pick another contract won't be much of an incentive. When you might have only 10-15 open contract slots, LV will be stingy.

Another thing to consider, LV has to only meet 44.4 Million of the cap. They will be HUGE players in the UFA market. This expansion is going to inflate prices immensely.

Craig Smith will have strong value because a) He's a type of player GMGM likes. b) he's a goal scorer and this draft will be short on those. c) His contract is great.

I expect trades to look like this: Expansion draft consideration for rights to a prospect and a pick. If teams offer picks in the draft a year later the prospect does not have to be as highly valued.

EDIT: I will be adding on to this as I go along. If you want my excel spreadsheet of how I'm working on my game theory, just ask.


Last edited by BigFatCat999: 03-12-2017 at 02:56 PM. Reason: continuous train of thought.
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Old
03-12-2017, 05:32 PM
  #48
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If I had to make the choice between Hook, Willy and Smith, it would be a tough one between Hook and Willy.

Change of scenery could work for Smith and he could bounce back and contribute in top-6, but that's a gamble so I'd still pick one of the other two. Throw in Aberg, who still has potential to become a serviceable top 6 forward and I might just do it. Even if I end up with 3rd liner Smith, it's only for two more years when I'm still building the team.

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Old
03-12-2017, 06:21 PM
  #49
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Quote:
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2 contract players.

Another thing to consider, LV has to only meet 44.4 Million of the cap. They will be HUGE players in the UFA market. This expansion is going to inflate prices immensely.
.
Yeah, let them be big players on Hanzel, Shattenkirk, and.......yeah

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Old
03-12-2017, 06:59 PM
  #50
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Yeah, let them be big players on Hanzel, Shattenkirk, and.......yeah
If they go the minimalist route they will have 30 million to play with.

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