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Old
07-13-2016, 07:31 AM
  #76
Frank JT
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We definitely need to keep our 2nds and select players for our prospect pool.
Ideal picks : hoping for a top6 forward with our first (if possible a center), and BPA with the next selections.
But if a really good D falls in the first round (ex.: Ryan McDonagh) and he is our BPA, go!

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07-13-2016, 02:25 PM
  #77
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Half OT : Anybody has a clue as to Vladimir Kuznetsov wasn't picked in 2016, and should he be considered a guy to follow for a potential mid-round pick in 2017?

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07-13-2016, 06:48 PM
  #78
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im all on the popugayev/somorukov train

russia russia

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Old
07-14-2016, 12:35 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFatOne View Post
Liljegren is the best player in the draft. He is like Oliver Ekman Larsson.
Going back to 2009 (when OEL was picked), Tavares is still the first choice.

Now between Hedman and OEL for the second round pick it is a tough one.
Hedman is improving in PO.
OEL, well not enough games in PO and his stats seems to decrease in PO.
So I would pick Hedman over OEL.

But they would be top-3.

Going back to Liljegren vs Patrick, it is going to be interesting.
Patrick with 102 points, C/RW shoots R, 6'3" and 194 lbs is going to be tough competition.

To be frank, I do not see Patrick to be the same as John Tavares (134 points at 15 years old in OHL).
But he will become a top center in NHL.

So if Liljegren is same as OEL, he could very well be the first pick, but first d-men picks are rare:
  • 2016: Juolevi 6th;
  • 2015: Hanafin 5th;
  • 2014: Ekblad 1st;
  • 2013: Jones 4th (many were seing him at first pick);
  • 2012: Murray 2nd, Reinhart (traded to EDM), Rielly, Lindholm, Dumba, Pouliot, Trouba and Koekkoek followed at 4 to 10; I would trade many for Parayko or Gotisbehere; Pens did good with Maatta.
  • 2011: Larsson 4th (traded for Hall so is is worth a ist...);
  • 2010: Gudbransson 3rd;
  • 2009: Hedman 2nd (and OEL 6th BTW);
  • 2008: Doughty 2nd (just behind Stamkos) then Bogosian, Pietrangelo, Schenn; Karlsson at 15th;
  • 2007: Hickey 3rd.
First, D-Men are almost never picked first (Exception is Ekblad picked ahead of Reinhart, Draisatl and Bennet).
Second, top d-men picks are not always the best d-men in that year.

Liljegren could be the 1st OA.
Forwards are easier to predict.
But D-Men are tougher.

Going back to 2012, would you pick Murray as a 2nd round pick or Galchenyuk, Forsberg, Reilly, Lindholm or even Gotisbehere and Pareyko?

D-Men are so tough to predict:
  • Subban, Weber, Josi, Vlasic and Keith were picked in 2nd round.
  • Letang, Chara, Parayko, Gotisbehere, Barrie were 3rd round pick.
  • Yandle, Brodie were a 4th round pick.
  • Klingberg was 5th round pick.
  • Markov was a 6th round pick.
  • Byfuglien was an 8th round pick.
  • Giordano, Krug were not drafted.

So basically out of the top 20 d-men in offense last season (I added Vlasic (67 games), Markov (21st), Chara (Norris) and Keith (67 games)), 8 of them:
Karlsson, Burns, OEL, Suter, Doughty, Seabrook, Hedman, Shattenkirk
were drafted in first round.

And out of them, only Hedman and Doughty were the first D-Men picked that year.

So now, you have two choices: Throw the dice at Liljegren or get Patrick...

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Old
07-14-2016, 12:39 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Half OT : Anybody has a clue as to Vladimir Kuznetsov wasn't picked in 2016, and should he be considered a guy to follow for a potential mid-round pick in 2017?
Should get a lot of eyes on him as he could very well play with Morand.
Maybe the Russian factor.

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Old
07-14-2016, 12:42 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank JT View Post
We definitely need to keep our 2nds and select players for our prospect pool.
Ideal picks : hoping for a top6 forward with our first (if possible a center), and BPA with the next selections.
But if a really good D falls in the first round (ex.: Ryan McDonagh) and he is our BPA, go!
As I just wrote in a post a few minutes ago, out of top-20 d-men in the league, 60% are drafted in 2nd round or later.

Just take longer to get them to NHL level.

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Old
07-14-2016, 12:45 AM
  #82
Pompeius Magnus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get25 View Post
Should get a lot of eyes on him as he could very well play with Morand.
Maybe the Russian factor.
He's a bad skater, both speed wise and agility wise, which really limits his overall game. Fairly inconsistant too.

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Old
07-14-2016, 12:48 AM
  #83
get25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
And 5'2 goalie.. not interested!
Seems he is 6'7"

Must be a typo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
I'd understand if they had him at 5'7" but 5'2" is a weird typo

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Old
07-14-2016, 01:27 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Hoping we can draft a PMD with top 4 upside in the 2nd round next year, we need someone to compete with Beaulieu asap because he's developing slowly.

Sergachev - Weber
XXX - Petry
Beaulieu - Pateryn

Is what I'm hoping for in 3-5 years
Beaulieu has 19 points last season. Previous season he had 9 points.

Putting him on the third pairing again is unfair. Just trade him if you don't think he is up to the task.

He is a PMD and he has top-4 upside. He was given 1:14 seconds of PP TOI/G.

I am not expecting 40 points from him but 30 points is certainly within his reach.
30 points would be great. Petry best season was 25 points with top PP in EDM.
It is time to give Beaulieu top-4 duties.

BTW, best Emelin ever did was 17 points.

If he can get to 35-40 points at 25 years old, I would be ecstatic.
But having him on a second pairing with 30+ points would be great.

2016:
Markov - Weber
Beaulieu - Petry

2017:
Beaulieu - Weber
Sergachev - Petry

2018:
Sergachev - Weber
Beaulieu - Petry

BTW, you are complaining about Beaulieu developing slowly (like most d-men BTW) and you want to bring Sergachev to top-2 now?

And you are expecting a top-4 PMD D-Men picked in 2nd round in 2017 to be ready to challenge Beaulieu before 2020?
Go back and look at Gotisbehere, Parayko and Klingberg to see how much time they took to be ready.
The only PMD (besides Sergachev) that could be ready in 2020 for us are Mete or Staum.

As far as I can see, Beaulieu went from 9 point in 2014-15 to 19 points in 2015-16. That's better than Petry and Emelin and he can skate really well.
At this point, I would say that he needs more PP time and build his confidence.

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Old
07-14-2016, 01:42 AM
  #85
ottawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get25 View Post
Beaulieu has 19 points last season. Previous season he had 9 points.

Putting him on the third pairing again is unfair. Just trade him if you don't think he is up to the task.

He is a PMD and he has top-4 upside. He was given 1:14 seconds of PP TOI/G.

I am not expecting 40 points from him but 30 points is certainly within his reach.
30 points would be great. Petry best season was 25 points with top PP in EDM.
It is time to give Beaulieu top-4 duties.

BTW, best Emelin ever did was 17 points.

If he can get to 35-40 points at 25 years old, I would be ecstatic.
But having him on a second pairing with 30+ points would be great.

2016:
Markov - Weber
Beaulieu - Petry

2017:
Beaulieu - Weber
Sergachev - Petry

2018:
Sergachev - Weber
Beaulieu - Petry

BTW, you are complaining about Beaulieu developing slowly (like most d-men BTW) and you want to bring Sergachev to top-2 now?

And you are expecting a top-4 PMD D-Men picked in 2nd round in 2017 to be ready to challenge Beaulieu before 2020?
Go back and look at Gotisbehere, Parayko and Klingberg to see how much time they took to be ready.
The only PMD (besides Sergachev) that could be ready in 2020 for us are Mete or Staum.


As far as I can see, Beaulieu went from 9 point in 2014-15 to 19 points in 2015-16. That's better than Petry and Emelin and he can skate really well.
At this point, I would say that he needs more PP time and build his confidence.

I mean, I clearly said the line I posted is what I'm hoping for in 3-5 years

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Old
07-14-2016, 09:11 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get25 View Post
Should get a lot of eyes on him as he could very well play with Morand.
Maybe the Russian factor.
Well, wasn't he already playing with Morand..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompeius Magnus View Post
He's a bad skater, both speed wise and agility wise, which really limits his overall game. Fairly inconsistant too.
He's indeed not exactly the best skater, I'll give you that. I've seen worse, and also somewhat similar skaters, get drafted (comparing oranges to oranges : Yakov Trenin was a 2nd rounder).

And if Stephan Falkovsky can get drafted, anybody can.

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Old
07-14-2016, 05:36 PM
  #87
Frank JT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by get25 View Post
Going back to 2009 (when OEL was picked), Tavares is still the first choice.

Now between Hedman and OEL for the second round pick it is a tough one.
Hedman is improving in PO.
OEL, well not enough games in PO and his stats seems to decrease in PO.
So I would pick Hedman over OEL.

But they would be top-3.

Going back to Liljegren vs Patrick, it is going to be interesting.
Patrick with 102 points, C/RW shoots R, 6'3" and 194 lbs is going to be tough competition.

To be frank, I do not see Patrick to be the same as John Tavares (134 points at 15 years old in OHL).
But he will become a top center in NHL.

So if Liljegren is same as OEL, he could very well be the first pick, but first d-men picks are rare:
  • 2016: Juolevi 6th;
  • 2015: Hanafin 5th;
  • 2014: Ekblad 1st;
  • 2013: Jones 4th (many were seing him at first pick);
  • 2012: Murray 2nd, Reinhart (traded to EDM), Rielly, Lindholm, Dumba, Pouliot, Trouba and Koekkoek followed at 4 to 10; I would trade many for Parayko or Gotisbehere; Pens did good with Maatta.
  • 2011: Larsson 4th (traded for Hall so is is worth a ist...);
  • 2010: Gudbransson 3rd;
  • 2009: Hedman 2nd (and OEL 6th BTW);
  • 2008: Doughty 2nd (just behind Stamkos) then Bogosian, Pietrangelo, Schenn; Karlsson at 15th;
  • 2007: Hickey 3rd.
First, D-Men are almost never picked first (Exception is Ekblad picked ahead of Reinhart, Draisatl and Bennet).
Second, top d-men picks are not always the best d-men in that year.

Liljegren could be the 1st OA.
Forwards are easier to predict.
But D-Men are tougher.

Going back to 2012, would you pick Murray as a 2nd round pick or Galchenyuk, Forsberg, Reilly, Lindholm or even Gotisbehere and Pareyko?

D-Men are so tough to predict:
  • Subban, Weber, Josi, Vlasic and Keith were picked in 2nd round.
  • Letang, Chara, Parayko, Gotisbehere, Barrie were 3rd round pick.
  • Yandle, Brodie were a 4th round pick.
  • Klingberg was 5th round pick.
  • Markov was a 6th round pick.
  • Byfuglien was an 8th round pick.
  • Giordano, Krug were not drafted.

So basically out of the top 20 d-men in offense last season (I added Vlasic (67 games), Markov (21st), Chara (Norris) and Keith (67 games)), 8 of them:
Karlsson, Burns, OEL, Suter, Doughty, Seabrook, Hedman, Shattenkirk
were drafted in first round.

And out of them, only Hedman and Doughty were the first D-Men picked that year.

So now, you have two choices: Throw the dice at Liljegren or get Patrick...
Nice post!

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Old
07-14-2016, 07:19 PM
  #88
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[QUOTE=Jeffrey;120626569]
Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post

If your big three includes Beaulieu and Juulsen you are heading to Edmonton level type of defense.

Sergachev is a nice start but I would not be surprised to see Beaulieu shipped out and Juulsen developing as a #5/#6 defenseman.
Sergachev & Foote being very good prospects, to early to call any of Beaulieu, Juulsen or Lernout out of the running as NHLers, IMHO. Lernout has very good skating, if his development continues the way it has, he could become a very versatile defenceman, shows calm, poise & confidence belying his draft position IMHO!!!...

AJHL - RHC - Lloydminster Bobcats - Lyle Odelein's(An old favorite Habs defenceman) Connor Odelein(RHC) Lyle's kid, must be tough as nails like his old man.


The 2017 Entry Draft has an abundance of RHC's & a few good RHD's, Sarnia Sting's Chemelevski (RHC) a USA born Ukraine descent, similar to Habs A.Galchenyuk(LHC) & former Sarnia Sting star also.

If the Habs cannot draft Callan Foote(RHD)ranked 10th then Nicolas Hague(RHD)[6'6" & 210 lbs.]ranked 12th & Bobby Smith Award winner for Scholastic Achievement.

The European centerman that truly gets my interest is Sweden's Lias Andersson(LHC/LW), here's hoping he slips unnoticed to the Habs @ 5'11' & 198 lbs. this slick playmaking, goalscoring, whiz kid does it all, a team player that has a 200 ft. game. Please Habs keep us up to date on this future NHLer!!!...


Last edited by S Bah: 07-17-2016 at 07:09 AM.
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Old
07-15-2016, 06:41 PM
  #89
Pompeius Magnus
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http://futureconsiderations.ca/fc-re...017-nhl-draft/

Very early rankings from FC that came out a few weeks ago but that I completely forgot to post here ! Heavy Finnish representation on it, it's shaping up early to be a huge year for them.

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Old
07-17-2016, 09:09 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompeius Magnus View Post
http://futureconsiderations.ca/fc-re...017-nhl-draft/

Very early rankings from FC that came out a few weeks ago but that I completely forgot to post here ! Heavy Finnish representation on it, it's shaping up early to be a huge year for them.
It's really early, but there is a lot of forwards in the 1rst round so far.

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Old
07-17-2016, 02:30 PM
  #91
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Russia looks like they'll have a really strong draft class for the first time in a few years, and Finland looks like they'll have very impressive class once again. I'm not very impressed with Canada for the 2nd year in a row, but Nolan Patrick really saves it. There's also 11+ months until the draft, so none of what I'm saying really matters but I'm having fun with it.

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07-17-2016, 02:50 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank JT View Post
It's really early, but there is a lot of forwards in the 1rst round so far.
The proportions are eerily similar to this year really, with the big exception that 2017 will have a Dman in the clear cut top 3 . Although then again 2016 was supposed to have one too, he just ended up kinda sliding out of it .

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07-18-2016, 03:48 PM
  #93
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The Knights were able to convince Janne Kuokkanen to come over for the 16-17 season today, which may give them a good chance to get potential top 15 pick Robin Salo to take the OHL route as well.

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07-19-2016, 11:15 AM
  #94
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I suspect I may see Timmins at Scotiabank Center quite a bit for the 2016-2017 Mooseheads season now with Nico Hischier committing to the team for the upcoming season as he is a surefire 1st round pick and we also have Chainey, Durandeau, Flower and Bishop as draft eligible for 2017 and kids like Charlesbois and Lepage could shine as 17 year old rookies this year.

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07-19-2016, 01:35 PM
  #95
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Hischier could be pretty big for the Mooseheads, he's really good, probably the best Swiss forward since Niederreiter.

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07-19-2016, 03:33 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Pompeius Magnus View Post
Hischier could be pretty big for the Mooseheads, he's really good, probably the best Swiss forward since Niederreiter.
Fiala IMO

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07-19-2016, 06:27 PM
  #97
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Fiala IMO
He's a solid prospect too, no doubts about it. I do think Hischier is ahead at the same age by a very small margin, if only because he's already played some games in the senior league and looked good in them. Then again Filia played in Sweden at that age and it's hard to compare numbers and situations in two different leagues .

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07-19-2016, 08:24 PM
  #98
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No point in talking about whether it's Lilljegren or Patrick right now. things will change in a big way by next year, as we see time and again..

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07-20-2016, 10:49 AM
  #99
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Our look at the top 15

http://lastwordonsports.com/2016/07/...017-nhl-draft/

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07-20-2016, 11:06 AM
  #100
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Minulin and Valimaki are gonna be top 15 picks this year imo. 2017 is gonna be a good year for the WHL, theyre loaded with high end Dmen.

I've only seen Liljegren play in 1 tourney so i cant say much about him, Minulin is my favorite dman going into the 2017 season.

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