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Jeff Carter - TOI 8:59

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01-07-2006, 09:45 AM
  #1
dancingtree
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Jeff Carter - TOI 8:59

It seems that when Jeff Carter gets ice-time, he puts up numbers. Last night, he didn't even play 9 minutes. Is he in the dog-house with the coaches, or is he just not talented enough to get more shifts with the Flyers right now?

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01-07-2006, 09:55 AM
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It's a series of unfortunate events that prevents Carter from getting more ice time. But the main reason why Carter gets little ice time is the man behind the bench. He dictates who gets what in terms of ice time and linemates. However, it must be comforting for all to know that this same man behind the bench can justify giving minutes to guys like Brashear and Therien, two guys who are detrimental to the success of this team.

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01-07-2006, 10:00 AM
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my assumption is hitch just doesnt play rookies as much as people that have been with him for a longer period of time. Not sure tho. One thing i am sure about is jeff carters skill, its outstanding, he is impressive. before this season i didnt realize he could check so well, and maybe thats why hes playing on the 3rd or 4th line? I think Richards has proven to be more versitile as a player so far. Richards chemistry with Handzeus has been great, so i think that has been a bonus for Rich. I say give Cater minutes, he will pan out to be a goood good power forward in the future, hopfully great. He should be getting more minutes that radio, savage, and ellison right now. i said before and ill say it again, give Carter more minutes.

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01-07-2006, 10:17 AM
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Well considering how badly it went when he was on the 1st line, then I'm not that surprised with this...

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01-07-2006, 10:34 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16
It's a series of unfortunate events that prevents Carter from getting more ice time. But the main reason why Carter gets little ice time is the man behind the bench. He dictates who gets what in terms of ice time and linemates. However, it must be comforting for all to know that this same man behind the bench can justify giving minutes to guys like Brashear and Therien, two guys who are detrimental to the success of this team.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/standi...e&seasontype=2

dude... seriously, that's just asinine. as much as Therien and Brash frustrate the hell out of me, this team is on top of the NHL in points at the moment and is on an absolute tear. you sit on here and bash Hitch on a regular basis (almost everything you say can be statistically proven to be either inaccurate or a huge skewing of the truth).

would i like Carter to be getting more minutes? yes. ya know what though, he can go out there and earn them like everyone else. he can FORCE Hitch to play him, which quite frankly he hasn't done. he's put up good numbers, but that line was getting DOMINATED last night... every shift they were out there, especially at the beginning of the game, they were having problems. so yeah, they didn't get a lot of minutes... that's life. Hitch's job is to win, not babysit. the link above suggests that he's doing his job...

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01-07-2006, 11:34 AM
  #6
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His ice time decreases but I do not think he is in the dog house. Hitch constantly gives him an opportunity to play with Gagne and Forsberg and Carter doesnít produce. Against the Rangers for instance Carter had an open net and could not hit it. Rookies should at least put a shot on goal and he didnít.
I am a little worried because I expected a lot more from this guy (I do not consider him a bust) but maybe he needs a better winger maybe to be effective? He is a right hand shot so I think he could use some time on PP with Forsberg and Gagne instead of Knuble and build his confidence a little.

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01-07-2006, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUS
His ice time decreases but I do not think he is in the dog house. Hitch constantly gives him an opportunity to play with Gagne and Forsberg and Carter doesnít produce. Against the Rangers for instance Carter had an open net and could not hit it. Rookies should at least put a shot on goal and he didnít.
I am a little worried because I expected a lot more from this guy (I do not consider him a bust) but maybe he needs a better winger maybe to be effective? He is a right hand shot so I think he could use some time on PP with Forsberg and Gagne instead of Knuble and build his confidence a little.
i think he's doing fine... he's showing off that wicked-wrister and getting some goals and making contributions. however, he's a rookie on a VERY good team that is deep at center. ice time is tight, especially at center, and you gotta go out there and earn. at times Carter isn't strong enough on the puck and he does have a tendancy to give the puck up some... he's going to get better, this is the way of things.

another aspect against him is that he is clearly, as expected, not as strong a two-way player as Richards. not that he's a bad defensive player, but Richards (who needs to stop taking penalties...) is alotted more ice-time because he is much more effective in our defensive zone.

none of this is a bad thing... i would much rather have Eager/Carter/Umberger out there than most other 3rd/4th lines in the league and they aren't putting up bad numbers. getting 10 minutes of ice on a VERY good team isn't a bad thing at all for his development. he's getting to play at the NHL level and practice everyday with very good players that will help him improve. i think he's going to have a stronger offensive second-half to the season than start now that he doesn't have to deal with the mono (though you have to be concerned about the young guys getting worn down).

right now he's on pace for a 20-22-42 season, which i would be fine with. however, assuming he improves a bit in the second-half and winds up more in the 25-25-50 range, is anyone really going to consider that a "crap" season? no, and if you do... you're delusional.

remember, he's a rookie... it isn't his job to "carry" this team offensively. it WILL be his job in two or three years to help carry this team offensively... and he's right on path.

there are NO WORRIES here people... stop rubber-necking over the TOI.

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01-07-2006, 01:30 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
dude... seriously, that's just asinine.
Pretty much. The kid just turned 21 years old. Therien plays an entirely different position, and Brashear is a wing on a different line. BCF has to know this.

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01-07-2006, 02:49 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUS
Hitch constantly gives him an opportunity to play with Gagne and Forsberg and Carter doesnít produce.
I would be willing to bet his total time on the ice with those two over the course of the entire season is less than 20 minutes total.

If you go by points per minute, the only forwards with a higher average are Forsberg, Gagne, Knuble and Kapanen (just barely). Carters offensive production, when weighted for minutes on the ice is higher than Hadzus, Richards, Savage, Radivojevic, and Umberger, all of whom get more time on the ice per game, and usually with better line mates.

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01-07-2006, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley
Pretty much. The kid just turned 21 years old. Therien plays an entirely different position, and Brashear is a wing on a different line. BCF has to know this.
Of course I know Therien plays defense and Brash is a wing on a different line. All what I'm saying is that Hitch finds ways to give those guys ice time. And usually he gives those guys ice time by cutting someone else's ice time.

Fact of the matter is that I can sit here and get into a p-issing war with everyone over whether or not Hitch is doing the right thing by Carter and half will agree and half will disagree.

All what I've stated is that Hitch can find ways to give players ice time. If he can find ways to give ice time to guys like Brashear and Therien and so on and so forth, why can he not find ice time for someone like Carter. Hell, RJ Umberger gets more ice time than Carter. Branko gets more ice time than Carter. Even Brian "I'm as usefull as t1ts on a bull" Savage gets more ice time.

And that's what will always burn me - young players on this team will always continue to get the shaft as long as Hitch is running the show. Has Hitch ever rewarded Carter with more ice time when he's played well? Nope. Has Hitch ever cut Carter's time when he hasn't played well? Yep.

So, that being the case, what would it hurt cutting someone like Savage's ice time by three to four minutes a game and instead, use that ice time and give prolonged play to guys like Carter and Umberger? That's what I'm throwing out there. If it's being said that Carter and Umberger are the future, why not let them grow a bit and let them play through their mistakes? Heaven forbid they might make a mistake. I mean, it can't be any worse than someone like Savage or Brashear making mistakes, right?

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01-07-2006, 03:44 PM
  #11
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I would really prefer he spend the rest of the season with the Phantoms, just for playing time.

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01-07-2006, 03:56 PM
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this is a direct result of us trading sharpie. someone has to play 4th line center. wheter its carter richards or umberger. id love to see him up higher but well see what happens.

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01-07-2006, 05:07 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantokrator
I would really prefer he spend the rest of the season with the Phantoms, just for playing time.
That's crazy talk.

A. Our team needs him to fill a spot, we have nobody else who could.

B. He's averaging 11:30 a game, not 3:00! Almost 12 minutes a game is plenty for a rookie on a deep team.

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01-07-2006, 05:42 PM
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he's getting plenty of ice time right now. im sure it will go up as the season starts to grind on the older guys as well. don't forget that penalties in the NHL have gone way up, and carter is not a primary powerplay player (although he does get some time on the PP), and he rarely kills penalties. I think that the PP and penaltykill are the things that are primarily pulling from his ice time, not hitch.

also - about brashear, ive actually come to be impressed with his play over the last few weeks. Hes actually been standing up, hitting, and making some nice passes. If he can keep it up im not against keeping him.

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01-07-2006, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16
Fact of the matter is that I can sit here and get into a p-issing war with everyone over whether or not Hitch is doing the right thing by Carter and half will agree and half will disagree.
I don't want that. Sorry if it sounded like I was calling your post "ignorant," or whatever Jester wrote.

This team is rolling right now, so any person who seems ticked off with the personnel decisions of the coaching staff is probably going to have their work cut out for them going against them. Hard to criticize them right now, because everything they're touching right now is turning to gold. That trumps the need to get Jeff Carter ice time.

He just turned 21 - he'll get his ice time in due time.

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01-07-2006, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley
Sorry if it sounded like I was calling your post "ignorant," or whatever Jester wrote.
No offense taken. We're all fans here and we all have different views on how the team should be run. I'll always be a big fan of the run and gun type hockey and that youngsters should always be the forefront. We might lose a few more, but it makes for great hockey and gives us a real opportunity to really see how our youngsters will do. Others feel that a more defensive oriented approach while limiting ice time to younger players is the other way to go. An interesting dichotomy to say the least.

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01-07-2006, 07:18 PM
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How has Umberger looked?

Whats his career outlook shaping up to be?

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01-07-2006, 08:52 PM
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Carter is playing on an all rookie line with Umberger and Eager, what kind of minutes can one expect? There really is no 3rd or 4th line, which ever line is hot is the one Hitch will play. I like the second powerplay unit with Carter, Umberger, and Richards.

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01-07-2006, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staal12
How has Umberger looked?

Whats his career outlook shaping up to be?
Umberger looks real solid, I think he definately has top 6 potential, but probably on the wing as a Flyer. He's great along the boards, has decent speed, decent hands, and his offensive game is pretty solid (good vision). I think he could be a solid all around, 60+ point player in the future.

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01-07-2006, 10:05 PM
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thanks.

on paper he looks like a top 6 player.

its hard to evaluate kids, when you cant see them.

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01-08-2006, 10:14 PM
  #21
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der dawg haus

it seems to me the way you end up in Hitchcock's doghouse is not playing your position, not taking care of business in your own end. Carter is -5 on a team with three minus forwards. I know it's a bare stat that only in deep analysis tells a story...

Carter loafs a bit on the backcheck and the fact is that until he works as hard trying to keep the puck out of his own net as he does trying to light the lamp himself, he will not see meaningful time on a Ken Hitchcock team.

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01-08-2006, 11:04 PM
  #22
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC
it seems to me the way you end up in Hitchcock's doghouse is not playing your position, not taking care of business in your own end. Carter is -5 on a team with three minus forwards. I know it's a bare stat that only in deep analysis tells a story...

Carter loafs a bit on the backcheck and the fact is that until he works as hard trying to keep the puck out of his own net as he does trying to light the lamp himself, he will not see meaningful time on a Ken Hitchcock team.
Carter is +5 and he doesn't "loaf a bit on the backcheck."

he doesn't deserve as much ice-time at center as Handzus or Forsberg, and he isn't as strong defensively as Richards... thus, he gets the ice time that he gets.

of late he's been getting in the neighborhood of 13 minutes most night... which for a team that is 1st in the conference at the moment isn't bad at all. everyone needs to chill out on the ice time stuff regarding Carter.

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01-09-2006, 03:04 AM
  #23
Nacho
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Originally Posted by Winston Wolf
That's crazy talk.

A. Our team needs him to fill a spot, we have nobody else who could.

B. He's averaging 11:30 a game, not 3:00! Almost 12 minutes a game is plenty for a rookie on a deep team.
I wouldn't mind having Ellison up on the big team...

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01-09-2006, 05:12 PM
  #24
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The debate over carter's ice time is in like every thread on this board so I dont want to get into that anymore.

It all comes down to one thing. Hitch has won a cup, he a old beaten up team to within one game of the finals last year and he is at the top of the NHL this year while playing the whole season without Primeau, parts without Gagne and Forsberg and never had a whole team in place. At this point, it is hard to question anything he does.

The rookies and all players are getting the ice time they deserve (with the exception of Brashear, I wont argue that one)

Leave the team to the best coach in the league (IMO)

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