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starting goalie 01.10.06

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01-10-2006, 09:23 AM
  #1
pags78
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starting goalie 01.10.06

ozzie or legacey tonight?

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01-10-2006, 09:34 AM
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That's pretty funny.

If Babcock played Osgood tonight he'd probably face a mutiny. Until there's another injury, or Manny completely falls off the table, Ozzie won't be seeing more than occasional spot starts. It's become clear that Manny is the guy, or at least that he should be.

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01-10-2006, 09:39 AM
  #3
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I'd be shocked if Manny wasn't in the nets after Sundays debacle

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01-10-2006, 09:51 AM
  #4
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There is no way Osgood will be in net. The team just plays better in front of Legace.

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01-10-2006, 10:02 AM
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I'd bet the mortgage on Legace starting...don't hold me to it though.

Babs will probably ride whomever is playing well at the time and roof caved in on Ozzie on Sunday.

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01-10-2006, 10:19 AM
  #6
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Until there's another injury, or Manny completely falls off the table, Ozzie won't be seeing more than occasional spot starts.
Yeah,we know you favor Manny but the fact remains that the team needs both goalies playing regardless of what everyone thinks. Besides,still no official word on who will start yet...either way the team needs to play 60 minutes tonight no matter who starts.

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01-10-2006, 10:30 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by phillypensfan
Yeah,we know you favor Manny but the fact remains that the team needs both goalies playing regardless of what everyone thinks. Besides,still no official word on who will start yet...either way the team needs to play 60 minutes tonight no matter who starts.
It has nothing to do with who my favorite is. Legace gave up 1 goal in his last 2 starts. Ozzie gave up 6 goals in his last start. End of discussion. Like I said, until Manny gets hurt or slips up, Ozzie will be the backup, and he'll get maybe one start in five.

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01-10-2006, 10:50 AM
  #8
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It has nothing to do with who my favorite is.
That's funny. Seems you like bashing Ozzy because the team didn't perform,yet somehow I don't see you doing the same of Manny if the same thing were to happen while he was in net.


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Ozzie will be the backup, and he'll get maybe one start in five.
Wow. I didn't realize you were the one to make those decisions.

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01-10-2006, 11:01 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
It has nothing to do with who my favorite is. Legace gave up 1 goal in his last 2 starts. Ozzie gave up 6 goals in his last start. End of discussion. Like I said, until Manny gets hurt or slips up, Ozzie will be the backup, and he'll get maybe one start in five.
Agreed. Legace has earned the job of starter with his play and Osgood hasn't put up much of a fight.

As far as the team needing both goalies, I have to agree. I hesitate to call Legace injury prone but he has gotten hurt both times in his career he assumed the #1 goalie job. And Ozzie gives us a decent amount of insurance just in case. But there's no doubt Manny is and should be the starter.

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01-10-2006, 11:12 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by phillypensfan
That's funny. Seems you like bashing Ozzy because the team didn't perform,yet somehow I don't see you doing the same of Manny if the same thing were to happen while he was in net.

Wow. I didn't realize you were the one to make those decisions.

I watch the games, and I post my observations. If I "bash" anyone, it's because I believe they played poorly, made poor plays, or did something that I consider worthy of noting. In this case, I observe that Manny has outplayed Ozzie this year, and that I believe that Manny is the superior goalie because he is physically better equipped to play better and I think Ozzie makes too many bad plays when he's out of the net playing the puck. I don't know where your love of Ozzie comes from - clearly it's not from watching the games, because if you had watched the games you'd see that Manny has played better.

Excuse me if I refuse to let someone whose SN is "phillypensfan" tell me he knows more about the Red Wings than I do.

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01-10-2006, 01:00 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
That's pretty funny.

If Babcock played Osgood tonight he'd probably face a mutiny. Until there's another injury, or Manny completely falls off the table, Ozzie won't be seeing more than occasional spot starts. It's become clear that Manny is the guy, or at least that he should be.

So you're pretty into coaching now ??
That's great.

You also think Manny can handle the January-load on his own ?
I think not.

3-3 Tie.
Shootout goes to the luckiest one.

Go Manny ! (no sarcasm intended..)

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01-10-2006, 01:26 PM
  #12
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Manny has to get the majority of the starts the rest of the way. But they have to keep Osgood fresh too. Manny has earned the #1 job outright. Yet I have a feeling that Osgood will end up being an important player one way or another down the road this season.

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01-10-2006, 02:16 PM
  #13
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Excuse me if I refuse to let someone whose SN is "phillypensfan" tell me he knows more about the Red Wings than I do.
What does my SN have to do with how much I know about the Wings? First off,I am not a he tyvm. And second off, my GF happens to be the Pens fan,I have been watching the Wings play since the early 90's. I do follow the games and they both have played very well,as long as they have the team playing 60 minutes in front of them.


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I don't know where your love of Ozzie comes from
It's called maybe I'm just tired of people like you pinning the blame for losses squarely on Ozzy when it's the entire team that doesn't play well,yet somehow I don't see you doing that if we were to lose a game with Manny in goal.

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If I "bash" anyone, it's because I believe they played poorly, made poor plays, or did something that I consider worthy of noting.
Just curious,do you point out any of the other players on the team when they make bad plays or play poorly? Yeah I know,it's easier for you just to pin the fault on Ozzy.

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01-10-2006, 02:31 PM
  #14
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Sarcastro does not discriminate when he is unhappy about a players play. He doesnt just bash Osgood. He spreads the wealth.

And, this whole Osgood thing. I love the guy, I always have. I have supported him when he does well, and I have criticized him when he plays poorly. This isnt 98-2001 anymore when he was the ONLY guy here. He is in a competition with Manny for the job. And he has lost that competition outright.

Osgood needs to play a fair amount down the stretch to stay fresh, but its Mannys team now as far as I am concerned. Ozzie has been OK...but OK doesnt cut it. Manny has been great all year long.

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01-10-2006, 04:43 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillypensfan
What does my SN have to do with how much I know about the Wings? First off,I am not a he tyvm. And second off, my GF happens to be the Pens fan,I have been watching the Wings play since the early 90's. I do follow the games and they both have played very well,as long as they have the team playing 60 minutes in front of them.




It's called maybe I'm just tired of people like you pinning the blame for losses squarely on Ozzy when it's the entire team that doesn't play well,yet somehow I don't see you doing that if we were to lose a game with Manny in goal.



Just curious,do you point out any of the other players on the team when they make bad plays or play poorly? Yeah I know,it's easier for you just to pin the fault on Ozzy.

Ignore Sarcastro.
He gave Schneider and Wooley 'A's on his so-called report card. He wouldn't know a defenseman if one opened his can.
He's one of these guys who like to pose as an expert when he really knows squat.
Tell him to listen to his dad.

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01-11-2006, 06:26 AM
  #16
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Boy it sure is fun when everyone decides to gang up on me. I'll defend myself, of course, because most of the criticism is unwarranted.

First off, I gave Schneider an A because when Lidstrom wasn't putting up any points, he was. He led the D for the first 2 months and was the main reason the PP was so hot early on. He's cooled off, but he still had a good first half. If Woolley had played like he has in the past couple weeks, I would not have given him a high grade. He has been terrible lately. But I wasn't basing my grade on lately, and I wasn't basing it on what happened AFTER I posted it. I was basing it on the first half of the season, when Woolley put up a lot of points and generally played pretty well when he was in the lineup.

You will not see me pin a loss squarely on Ozzie if the whole team played poorly. I did not pin the Dallas loss on Ozzie. I did say that Ozzie did not play well, and that there was at least one goal that Manny absolutely would have stopped. I also say that I think Manny is a better goalie than Ozzie is. This does not mean that I hate Ozzie. To make a metaphor that is easily understood, I would enjoy winning the lottery and getting $50. I would enjoy winning the lottery and getting $1000 more. Does that mean I hate winning the $50 lottery, or that I would wish that I hadn't? No. It just means I recognize and appreciate the difference between 50 and 1000.

Nowhere in my posts have I said that Manny can or should handle the entire load on his own. But he has played better than Ozzie, and Babcock does not like to rotate goalies, so I predict that Manny will get the vast majority of starts until he gets hurt or his play falls off. This is not me "coaching", or "trying to be a coach", or anything like that. It's analysis and prediction.

And Phillypensfan, when someone in the Wings forum starts attacking my posts and their SN includes two NHL teams, neither of which are the Red Wings, I take offense. I would take offense if someone named WingyMcWing were to attack my posts unfairly or take them out of context, like a lot of people have in this thread. If you don't like getting called out, don't go around attacking people. If you had ever read any of my other posts you would realize that I have been unhappy with the following players at various points this season, because at the time their play was not what it should be: Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Osgood, Homer, Schneider, Shanahan of late (though I think he's playing injured), Lilja, Lang, Draper, Maltby, and even Babcock, who isn't a player but has still made mistakes. When players play well, I praise them, and when they play poorly, I criticize them and hope that they'll start picking up their play.

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01-11-2006, 12:37 PM
  #17
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i don't always agree, well pretty much never agree with what sarcastro has to say, but i'm with him on this one.
he says what he's thinking, whether you agree or disagree, and isn't afraid to be brutally honest about it. if you don't like what he says or how he breaks something down, say so... but don't attack him for it.
phillypensfan, if you've been reading this forum at all since the beginning of the season, you know as well as the rest of us do that osgood's not the only one he calls out (more than other guys? maybe, but not the only one.) ozzie let up 6 goals, why is not ok to say something about that?

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01-11-2006, 04:03 PM
  #18
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And Phillypensfan, when someone in the Wings forum starts attacking my posts and their SN includes two NHL teams, neither of which are the Red Wings
You obviously didn't pay the least attention to my post about my SN. The Philly part has nothing to do with the Flyers first off,just happens to be close to where I live. And second off,as I already said as well,it is my girlfriend who is the Pens fan...if you would have paid attention then I wouldn't have had to explain that to you a second time.

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if you don't like what he says or how he breaks something down, say so... but don't attack him for it.
I'm not attacking anyone. I just think that if he can criticize Ozzy for playing poorly,then he can also say something when he plays a good game. All I'm saying.

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01-12-2006, 07:04 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by phillypensfan
You obviously didn't pay the least attention to my post about my SN. The Philly part has nothing to do with the Flyers first off,just happens to be close to where I live. And second off,as I already said as well,it is my girlfriend who is the Pens fan...if you would have paid attention then I wouldn't have had to explain that to you a second time.



I'm not attacking anyone. I just think that if he can criticize Ozzy for playing poorly,then he can also say something when he plays a good game. All I'm saying.
This is getting really old. If you had been paying attention, you'd have realized that I was explaining my original comments about your SN, which I made before you told me your life story, so there was no way for me to know that you are not in fact a Pens fan.

The next time I see Ozzie play a good game, I'll let you know. But I don't think I'll get many chances because I don't think he's going to play a whole lot in the near future.

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01-12-2006, 08:40 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by sarcastro
The next time I see Ozzie play a good game, I'll let you know. But I don't think I'll get many chances because I don't think he's going to play a whole lot in the near future.
I wouldn't be so sure.
Manny wasn't very convincing against Minnesota.

And just for the record, Sarcastro, IMO this is very hard to say:

Quote:
..and that there was at least one goal that Manny absolutely would have stopped..
No two goal in a season are the same. You can't say if Manny would have stopped Ozzie goals and Ozzie stopping Manny's goals.
The first two goals by the Hurricanes seemed (SEEMED !) stoppable.
Manny didn't.
But I'm not going to say Ozzie would have stopped them.
I don't know and there's no way I can't know.
He didn't play.

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01-12-2006, 09:25 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by interminded
I wouldn't be so sure.
Manny wasn't very convincing against Minnesota.
I assume you mean Carolina?

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01-12-2006, 09:26 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interminded
I wouldn't be so sure.
Manny wasn't very convincing against Minnesota.

And just for the record, Sarcastro, IMO this is very hard to say:



No two goal in a season are the same. You can't say if Manny would have stopped Ozzie goals and Ozzie stopping Manny's goals.
The first two goals by the Hurricanes seemed (SEEMED !) stoppable.
Manny didn't.
But I'm not going to say Ozzie would have stopped them.
I don't know and there's no way I can't know.
He didn't play.
What I can say is how Manny plays shots that move from side to side - he goes into a split and keeps his hands up and his eyes on the puck. That puck probably hits him square in the chest. I don't remember the last time I saw Manny on his belly on a play like that the way Ozzie was. Like I've said, this isn't exactly Ozzie's fault because he can't do the same things Manny can physically. And ok, I'll revise it to 99% certain Manny would have stopped it.

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01-12-2006, 11:19 AM
  #23
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I have to say one thing though sarcastro. You do have some sort of Manny bias. I mean, you blamed Woolley for the 3rd goal in the Carolina game for pete's sake. Manny came way too far out of the net, made the save on Cole, but then was completely out of the play and had no shot at even making an attempt to stop Cole the 2nd time. Yet you blame Woolley for covering his man in front and then inadvertently helping Cole score the goal?

Cmon...admit it...you LOVE Manny.

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01-12-2006, 11:33 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Higgy4
I have to say one thing though sarcastro. You do have some sort of Manny bias. I mean, you blamed Woolley for the 3rd goal in the Carolina game for pete's sake. Manny came way too far out of the net, made the save on Cole, but then was completely out of the play and had no shot at even making an attempt to stop Cole the 2nd time. Yet you blame Woolley for covering his man in front and then inadvertently helping Cole score the goal?

Cmon...admit it...you LOVE Manny.
I do like Manny, mainly because he has always played well when given the chance, but he never seems to get much of a chance. Besides that, I think he gets run over more than any goalie in the league, and his teammates never, ever stick up for him. And then I come on the board and everyone says that Ozzie gets a raw deal but Manny is overrated. That doesn't sit well with me.

And on the Cole goal, Woolley put the goal in his own net. OLN interviewed Cole after the game and he said "it went in off their guy." If you look at the replay, if Woolley isn't there, the puck doesn't go in. Maybe someone jams it in a second or two later, when Manny could have recovered, but if Woolley comes in from the right and sweeps left, rather than sweeping the puck toward the goal, then Cole does not score that goal. Manny trusted 2 -2!- of his teammates to help him out when he came out to make a save. Cole made a great play to get the puck to the post, but Woolley did the rest. Check the replays.

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01-12-2006, 11:44 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
I do like Manny, mainly because he has always played well when given the chance, but he never seems to get much of a chance. Besides that, I think he gets run over more than any goalie in the league, and his teammates never, ever stick up for him. And then I come on the board and everyone says that Ozzie gets a raw deal but Manny is overrated. That doesn't sit well with me.

And on the Cole goal, Woolley put the goal in his own net. OLN interviewed Cole after the game and he said "it went in off their guy." If you look at the replay, if Woolley isn't there, the puck doesn't go in. Maybe someone jams it in a second or two later, when Manny could have recovered, but if Woolley comes in from the right and sweeps left, rather than sweeping the puck toward the goal, then Cole does not score that goal. Manny trusted 2 -2!- of his teammates to help him out when he came out to make a save. Cole made a great play to get the puck to the post, but Woolley did the rest. Check the replays.
Inadvertently. And Woolley didnt sweep the puck into the net. Woolley spins and his stick goes in a backhand motion (left...just like you said you wanted him to do), which was towards the corner and/or side boards. He didnt sweep the puck into the net at all. Woolley and Coles stick meet and the puck goes in. Cole made a great play too. Lets give him some credit.
Wolley was doing his job...covering his man. If you watch the replay, he turns around at the EXACT same time the puck goes off of him. He had no idea Cole was diving around to shove the puck in the net.

It was a bad bounce...not a bad play by Woolley. Unlucky? Yes. But not a bad play.

And it still doesnt take away from the fact that Manny was 4 feet from the crease when the puck crossed the line. He took himself completely out of the play. Cole had a terrible angle on the initial shot to begin with, there was no reason for Manny to go that far out to make that save.

I like Manny too. I FULLY agree that he should be the starter. But he made a terrible play on that goal...it was obvious. Yet you came in and put ALL the blame on Woolley? You would have been all over Osgood on that goal.


Last edited by Higgy4: 01-12-2006 at 11:52 AM.
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