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For all the new Theo bashers

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01-10-2006, 01:45 PM
  #1
Le Petit Viking
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For all the new Theo bashers

Do you know (if you are old enough) what happen in the worst year (1992-1993) of Patrick Roy when his avg was at 3.20 (the year before, Roy had a avg at 2.36) ?

He won the Conn Smyth Trophy

Theo proved before that he can win games by himself...he just needs ajustments and a big game to change from a bad to a good season

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01-10-2006, 01:48 PM
  #2
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yeah you're probably right... we must give him a couple seasons to adjust to the new equipment... to the new rules... to come back from europe...

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01-10-2006, 01:48 PM
  #3
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Seems to me Roy had a pretty darn good team in front of him as well

 
Old
01-10-2006, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordchezz
Seems to me Roy had a pretty darn good team in front of him as well

Ya, look at any of the defensive units Roy had in front of him and compare them to the defensive uints Theodore has had in front of him......


...and by no means am I comparing Theo to Roy, but when looking at the respective dman both goalies had to help out, you almost start feeling sorry for Theo.

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01-10-2006, 01:55 PM
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Le Petit Viking
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The point isn't Theo has the same quality of goaltending then Roy OR Roy had a better D.


The point is : Don't trade a player after a single bad season 'cause that guy proved before he's a top goaler and you will get screw if you traded NOW.

His value never benn so down

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01-10-2006, 02:34 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Petit Viking
The point isn't Theo has the same quality of goaltending then Roy OR Roy had a better D.


The point is : Don't trade a player after a single bad season 'cause that guy proved before he's a top goaler and you will get screw if you traded NOW.

His value never benn so down
Look at the stats, he did have more than 1 bad season. Only very good season was 2001-2002. And he doesn't have the frame, the quickess, the glove to succeed in this new NHL when players have tons of times to aim compared to what they had in the past. A 6'0'' butterfly goalie in this new NHL with average reflexes, no glove and that needs to be perfect positionally will not have success in this new NHL.

I could agree with you with the old system but not with the new one.

My two cents.

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01-10-2006, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Petit Viking
The point isn't Theo has the same quality of goaltending then Roy OR Roy had a better D.


The point is : Don't trade a player after a single bad season 'cause that guy proved before he's a top goaler and you will get screw if you traded NOW.

His value never benn so down

Problem is, this isn't Theo's single bad season. He's put up two stinkers each after he signs a big contract, and has only really had one really good year i the last 4. Basically he's earned his big money in 1 of his last 4 playing years. Others hes been decent to bad, no what you pay top dollars for.

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01-10-2006, 02:40 PM
  #8
Matrix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
Ya, look at any of the defensive units Roy had in front of him and compare them to the defensive uints Theodore has had in front of him......


...and by no means am I comparing Theo to Roy, but when looking at the respective dman both goalies had to help out, you almost start feeling sorry for Theo.
At the time though, the trap was no in place or if it was, it was much less rigid than it it when Theo was in place. For 5 years now the management knew and still know that we didn't and still don't have the firepower to play all offense.

I was looking at old tapes, especially the end of 80'S beginning 90's Canadiens games, the game was way more fluid then it is now and even though the defense was so much stronger with a lot of names in front of him, you have to remember those incredible amount of games Roy was left totally alone, the d-men were pinching all the time and the forwards not backchecking as hard as they could.

But it's mostly a question of style, agility, quickness and height and obviously Roy will always be superior.

But I agree that we need more quality d-men......I'm so jealous of Calgary right now....

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01-10-2006, 02:59 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrix
I was looking at old tapes, especially the end of 80'S beginning 90's Canadiens games, the game was way more fluid then it is now and even though the defense was so much stronger with a lot of names in front of him, you have to remember those incredible amount of games Roy was left totally alone, the d-men were pinching all the time and the forwards not backchecking as hard as they could.
I don't recall too many games, until about maybe '93, that we left Roy alone. Even then I don't recall that happening too much. During most of Roy's stint with Montreal, our game plan revolved around him. A big part of our game plan was not to allow the opposition to get to any rebounds Roy would allow. He was expected to make the first save, and the defenceman with help from the forwards were to eliminate any rebound chances. Montreal, during Roy's years, were always near the top of the league in the least amount of shots allowed. Of course it was easier to attain those numbers when you look at the names we had on defence during Roy's tenure. Robinson, Green, Ludwig, Desjardins, Chelios, Svoboda, etc. etc. to go along with defensive minded forwards like Carbo, Mcphee, Skrudland, Walter, Keane, etc. etc.

I think Theo gets left out to dry more times in one year than Roy was during his whole time in Montreal.

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01-10-2006, 03:42 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Petit Viking
The point isn't Theo has the same quality of goaltending then Roy OR Roy had a better D.


The point is : Don't trade a player after a single bad season 'cause that guy proved before he's a top goaler and you will get screw if you traded NOW.

His value never benn so down
Seems more like one GOOD season and a bunch of bad to decent seasons...

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01-10-2006, 03:44 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy
Seems more like one GOOD season and a bunch of bad to decent seasons...
Uh, riiight, except you don't win the Vezina and the Hart with just a "good" season

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Old
01-10-2006, 03:54 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Petit Viking
Do you know (if you are old enough) what happen in the worst year (1992-1993) of Patrick Roy when his avg was at 3.20 (the year before, Roy had a avg at 2.36) ?

He won the Conn Smyth Trophy

Theo proved before that he can win games by himself...he just needs ajustments and a big game to change from a bad to a good season
Theodore won't ever win another GD thing...leave it alone, let him go, overpaid bum

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Old
01-10-2006, 03:56 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroyM
Uh, riiight, except you don't win the Vezina and the Hart with just a "good" season
That's the idiocy right there, and thanks for pointing it out. The fact is he had one incredible season, two very good seasons, two half-decent seasons and this year's horrible season.

Inconsistent, true. But I'm fed up of reading "BAH, he's had one good season only, wahhhhhhhhh" because they read someone else write it and thought it sounded right so they repeat it ad nauseum.

Like I've said before, only delusional maniacs thought he was going to win the Hart and Vezina each year.

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01-10-2006, 04:00 PM
  #14
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why do we compare theo in the same breath as patrick roy who is a future hall of farmer?


theo is 30 yrs old this sept and couldnt hold roys jockstrap in his both hands .

i like theo but he isnt or never will be patrick roy or even close.

roys acomplished alot before he was 30 year old
theo he's still try to figure out where his holes are .



sure theo won the vezina in 2002 - big deal what the do for us today"? nothing

in the nhl its a what have you done for me latley kinda deal what in the past is in the past and is a nice memory and will remian nice memories as long as your playing well!!!


jim carey you know that guy is still only 32 yrs old? retired in 1998-99

79w -65L-16 T

16 shutouts

WCHA Second All-Star Team (1993)
WCHA Rookie of the Year (1993)
AHL First All-Star Team (1995)
Dudley ``Red'' Garrett Memorial Award (Rookie of the Year - AHL) (1995)
Aldege "Baz" Bastien Memorial Award (Outstanding Goaltender - AHL) (1995)
NHL All-Rookie Team (1995)
NHL First All-Star Team (1996)
Vezina Trophy (1996)




he got a vezina and we all know his story right?



theo = jim carey


hope this dont ruffle to many feather but thats my opinion only


Last edited by Artyukhin*: 01-10-2006 at 04:07 PM.
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Old
01-10-2006, 04:07 PM
  #15
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Theo's been good for all of his career with the exception of his struggling this year. That's more than the two years Carey had.

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01-10-2006, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie
why do we compare theo in the same breath as patrick roy who is a future hall of farmer?


theo is 30 yrs old this sept and couldnt hold roys jockstrap in his both hands .

i like theo but he isnt or never will be patrick roy or even close.
You're right, Theo isn't Patrick Roy. Theo isn't a crybaby, Theo isn't an egomaniac, Theo doesn't cry FOUL on every goal that gets scored on him, Theo probably wouldn't get his *** kicked by a 5'5 Mike Vernon, Theo wouldn't demand a trade after getting lit up by the Red Wings, and he wouldn't retire after giving up a bad goal against the Wild in the playoffs.

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01-10-2006, 04:13 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie
why do we compare theo in the same breath as patrick roy who is a future hall of farmer?

might wanna learn to read. No one compared Theo to Roy. People only compared this year's defense to the one Roy had back then. Even with the more offensive minded game of the late 80s early 90s Roy had a better defense then Theo has today. Plus, there's no way Roy's team would have played like they did in the past 2 months. Theo got left alone more often in those 2 months then Roy in his entire career with the habs. That's what people are saying.

The others are simply saying we must be patient, even Roy had horrible seasons.

And please, don't compare Theo to Jim Carrey. Carrey couldn't even stay in the NHL after his great season, Theo, while playing badly, still deserve a spot on an nhl roster.

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Old
01-10-2006, 04:14 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjb45
Theo's been good for all of his career with the exception of his struggling this year. That's more than the two years Carey had.

im not holding carey and theo to the same time frame . im saying it the same " outcome "

win a award get a big pay check and down hill afterwards


same senerio

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01-10-2006, 04:21 PM
  #19
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While Roy was already at that point in his career a way better goalie than Theodore is (was consider at the beginning of the year). I still think the circa surrouding his departure SHOULD hold for some money in the current situation.

Plenty of people arent old enough and quite frankly i was very young back then myself, i do remember the leaving of Roy wasnt only about Tremblay, he had a harsh year and the media and FANS werent too soft with the guy.

If Montreal was hard enough on Roy, who's arguably the best goaltender ever career wise. One could only feel a LITTLE nervous about the idea of sending Theodore away. The result could be hard to swallow in a year or 2 when he simply get back to his 2003-2004 form which is already more than enough for 5M in this nhl...

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Old
01-10-2006, 04:47 PM
  #20
Le Petit Viking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azalichio
might wanna learn to read.
No one compared Theo to Roy
Thanks for the little recall. I doubted that mention Patrick Roy we will have a the "...Theo's not Roy..." WE KNOW ALL THAT


Patience it's the key and we have to wait 'till the offseason if we want the re-focus the team with free-agency and trades

Maybe Theo it's not the key for winning a Stanley Cup for the next years (remember the promise from Boivin) but for now, the key Habs players is Kovy, Koivu, Theo and Markov.`

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01-11-2006, 11:32 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Petit Viking
Do you know (if you are old enough) what happen in the worst year (1992-1993) of Patrick Roy when his avg was at 3.20 (the year before, Roy had a avg at 2.36) ?
Yeah - the 92/93 Canadiens scored 3.88 goals per game, and the Chicago Blackhawks won the Jennings trophy allowing 230 goals. Ed Belfour posted a 2.59 GAA. The only goalie in the conference to post a sub-3.00 GAA was Boston's backup, John Blue. It was the second-last good season of hockey before everything turned to defensive ****.

Today's Habs are at 2.92 GF/G, 9 goaltenders with 15+ games played sport better averages than Belfour's 92/93 figure, and a helluvalot more than that have better numbers than Theodore's.

The situations are not comparable.

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Old
01-11-2006, 03:27 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealer
That's the idiocy right there, and thanks for pointing it out. The fact is he had one incredible season, two very good seasons, two half-decent seasons and this year's horrible season.

Inconsistent, true. But I'm fed up of reading "BAH, he's had one good season only, wahhhhhhhhh" because they read someone else write it and thought it sounded right so they repeat it ad nauseum.

Like I've said before, only delusional maniacs thought he was going to win the Hart and Vezina each year.
Yeah, right. Depends on your standards. You're going to tell me that the season after the Hart/Vezina season was ok? We're not expecting him to have a Vezina each year, but to consistently play up to the standard of his paycheck. If you're going to be paid like a top 5 goalie, you should more often than not play like a top 5 goalie. But, aside from one "EXCEPTIONAL" season, if you going to play like a mid-tier goaltender most of your career, then you're bound to get critisized. He has to be made accountable and not just ride on his one great year.

Watch other top 10 goalies throughout the league, you'll see that what Theo does is nothing exceptional compared to them. On a scale of 1 to 10, I'll take a goalie who's performance varies from 7 to 9 anytime over a goalie that goes from 3 to 10.

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01-11-2006, 03:31 PM
  #23
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man, I beleive in good will, I just hope Theo can get through this and he's not as bad as other Players and Posters say he is

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