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Ovechkin pulls ahead by 3 points

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Old
01-11-2006, 09:39 AM
  #51
UnderratedBrooks44
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AO groupies are so predictable. I watched the Pens game and knew Crosby had no points and I somehow knew there would be a thread relating to it in one way or another. AO is far superior in your minds, we get it. I could care less, and I hope you "get" that.

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01-11-2006, 09:47 AM
  #52
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AO groupies are so predictable. I watched the Pens game and knew Crosby had no points and thought to myself "I know there will be a thread relating to this somehow and AO will be a theme within it." We get it, in your eyes AO obliterates Crosby. I could care less, I hope you understand that and stop posting.

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01-11-2006, 11:14 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
Age shouldn't be a factor. Theres not much of a difference between 18 and 20, especially with the wieght-training these guys get these days.
I couldn't care less who wins what, but to say there is no difference between 18 and 20 is simply wrong.

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01-11-2006, 11:24 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight44

Ovechkin plays with no one yes, but so does Svatos, right now he is on a line with Brunette and Mclean, and plus he only plays 13 min a game not like Oveckin. I am not saying Svatos should win the calder right now but the race aint over!
when he says he plays with no one....he means team wise. Ovechkin has more points that any 2 Capital players combined

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01-11-2006, 11:26 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
Is that a criteria for the Calder trophy?
Its part of the tie-breaker formula. Total points / (whines + dives)

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01-11-2006, 11:30 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
when he says he plays with no one....he means team wise. Ovechkin has more points that any 2 Capital players combined
exactly

Ovechkin played a little bit with everyone, that's why everyone has a little bit of points. he makes everyone and anyone better!!!

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01-11-2006, 12:19 PM
  #57
Bobby Orr's Knees
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44
AO groupies are so predictable. I watched the Pens game and knew Crosby had no points and thought to myself "I know there will be a thread relating to this somehow and AO will be a theme within it." We get it, in your eyes AO obliterates Crosby. I could care less, I hope you understand that and stop posting.
Just as predictable as Crosby groupies, right?

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01-11-2006, 12:23 PM
  #58
Goldark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44
AO groupies are so predictable. I watched the Pens game and knew Crosby had no points and I somehow knew there would be a thread relating to it in one way or another. AO is far superior in your minds, we get it. I could care less, and I hope you "get" that.
Maybe a better idea to show that you truly don't care would be perhaps to, I dunno, not post in this thread?

(You posted twice in a row, also )

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Old
01-11-2006, 12:31 PM
  #59
Pens1566
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Thread title should be changed to "Crosby falls behind by 3 points".

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Old
01-11-2006, 12:52 PM
  #60
UnderratedBrooks44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldark
Maybe a better idea to show that you truly don't care would be perhaps to, I dunno, not post in this thread?

(You posted twice in a row, also )
Didn't mean to post twice, I apologize. The reason I post is because I keep trying to say that, okay, AO is two years older but Crosby plays with better players. Can we just call it even? No one seems to suggest this.

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01-11-2006, 12:56 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pens1566
Thread title should be changed to "Crosby falls behind by 3 points".
Or "Crosby dropped out of Calder race".


Last edited by shawn_kemp: 01-11-2006 at 01:44 PM.
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Old
01-11-2006, 01:07 PM
  #62
Bobby Orr's Knees
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I think it's a great idea to sticky a "Calder Race" thread - all the stats can go there.

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01-11-2006, 02:48 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Orr's Knees
I think it's a great idea to sticky a "Calder Race" thread - all the stats can go there.
Seriously. Mods, why are you letting this go? The quality of this place has nosedived with this stuff. I hate posting in these threads, but seriously enough is enough, right ?

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Old
01-11-2006, 03:39 PM
  #64
Lionel Hutz
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2 years age difference or no, they're both rookies, the calder goes to the best rookie. We'll see at the end who is the best rookie.

Ovechkin is probably in front at the moment, but I hardly think its ridiculous to argue otherwise.

Its also not a two-horse race. Phaneuf and Lundquivst certainly deserve consideration, as well as Svatos.

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Old
01-11-2006, 04:00 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt MacInnis
I couldn't care less who wins what, but to say there is no difference between 18 and 20 is simply wrong.
Agreed. I cant believe anyone who follows hockey even a lil bit would make such a ridiculous statement.

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01-11-2006, 05:06 PM
  #66
Goldark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
Agreed. I cant believe anyone who follows hockey even a lil bit would make such a ridiculous statement.
It's not as ridiculous as it seems and "developmental theory" between 18 and 20 must be used on a case-by-case basis.

Case in point:

Kovalchuk and Heatly performed similarly in their rookie years, 2001-2002; Heatly had a PPG of .827 while Kovalchuk had a PPG of .785.

Kovalchuk was 18 at the beginning of the 2001-2002 season. Heatly was 20.

Fast forward to the 2005-2006 season where by some of the logic used here on HF, Kovalchuk would have destroyed Heatly in terms of production:

Kovalchuk: 63 points in 40 games
Heatly: 57 points in 41 games

Their performances are comparable. Ilya's hardly blowing him away.

Two rookies, two years apart, putting up similiar production in their first season.
Does this sound familiar?

3 years later, they each have improved and are putting up similar numbers.

The point is: nothing is a given. Just because Crosby is 18 and AO is 20 doesn't mean Crosby has more room for improvement or will improve more than AO. Heatly and Kovalchuk showed us this. As a result, we should stop using the "Crosby's only 18 while AO is 20" excuse until there's a reason to do it, ie Crosby outproducing AO by large margins in a few seasons.

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01-11-2006, 05:27 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldark
As a result, we should stop using the "Crosby's only 18 while AO is 20" excuse until there's a reason to do it, ie Crosby outproducing AO by large margins in a few seasons.
So now he has to outscore AO by "large margins"? Nice to see the goalposts keep moving.

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01-11-2006, 05:35 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldark
It's not as ridiculous as it seems and "developmental theory" between 18 and 20 must be used on a case-by-case basis.
It's more of developmental reality.

There is no disputing that the development of a hockey player from age 18 to age 20 is substantial.

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01-11-2006, 05:39 PM
  #69
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And, as a note, isn't it more fair to compare Kovalchuk at age 20 to what Heatley did as a 20 year old? Sure, they may hav ended up performing similarly, but if you're going to compare apples to apples (in an instance that is the exception, not the rule), you should compare performances as 20 year olds.

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01-11-2006, 05:50 PM
  #70
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yowza, anyone who has whatched any junior or college hockey knows the difference between 18 and 20 is huge. Also add in the fact that AO has been playing with men for 4 years, and this is crosby's first, takes some time to adjust.

On another note, AO is spending his first year in an english speaking country and is playing with considerably "worse" players, has that effected his play? I dunno.

Each player has their own list of excuses, and their fanboys are ready to deploy them whenever they feel threatened. I think that both AO and Crosby have played at an equal pace offensively, but that AO has been more of a physical force, while Crosby has drawn and taken more penalties. Im just thankful I can turn on the tellie almost everynight and watch one of these future stars.

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01-11-2006, 05:54 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt MacInnis
And, as a note, isn't it more fair to compare Kovalchuk at age 20 to what Heatley did as a 20 year old? Sure, they may hav ended up performing similarly, but if you're going to compare apples to apples (in an instance that is the exception, not the rule), you should compare performances as 20 year olds.
Unfortunately, the comparisons will be done season by season, since they both started in the NHL the same year. The point was Kovalchuk developed about the same amount from 18 to 21 as Healty developed from 20 to 23, basing from their numbers now.

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01-11-2006, 05:56 PM
  #72
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Time for us Crosbyites to eat our humble pie!

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01-11-2006, 05:57 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pens1566
So now he has to outscore AO by "large margins"? Nice to see the goalposts keep moving.
My point went over your head completely, obviously.

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Old
01-11-2006, 06:04 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldark
My point went over your head completely, obviously.
No, I got the point. I was just making note of you mentioning "by a large margin". What would you call a large margin? 50 pts?

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Old
01-11-2006, 06:18 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
Age shouldn't be a factor. Theres not much of a difference between 18 and 20, especially with the wieght-training these guys get these days.
Age is not a factor, but experience certainly is. And Ovechkin has that with his stint in the RSL.

However, I'm not taking anything away from Ovechkin. I actually personally prefer him to Crosby, although I can see both are great talents.

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