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ozolinsh/jovonovski

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Old
10-20-2003, 08:13 AM
  #51
Burke's Evil Spirit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks
OK guys, name the dmen who are better all-around than Jovo?

Offence, defensive play, physical play, leadership.
Flat-out better?

Nicklas Lidstrom
Chris Pronger
Al MacInnis
Adam Foote
Scott Stevens
Sergei Gonchar

At the same level as Jovanovski?

Rob Blake
Sergei Zubov
Scott Niedermayer (iffy - he might make the first list)
Mattias Norstrom

A notch below?

Wade Redden
Tomas Kaberle
Derek Morris
Teppo Numminen
Derian Hatcher
Jaroslav Modry (hey, I like him)

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10-20-2003, 08:53 AM
  #52
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Hitchcocks's system was a defence first NHL style, not a concentration camp. Get over it.

Survived? jesus man.

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10-20-2003, 08:57 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit

A notch below?

Wade Redden
Tomas Kaberle
Derek Morris
Teppo Numminen
Derian Hatcher
Jaroslav Modry (hey, I like him)
You still want to be taken seriously ?

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Old
10-20-2003, 09:25 AM
  #54
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Quoted from Peter Griffin: Speculation. You have no clue of whether or not Jovo would have flourished under Hitchcock's system. Right now Jovo is playing great offensively and great defensively, who says he couldn't do it in a defensive system?

You are right that it's all speculation, but Zubov excelled so good at it since I highly doubt anyone could succeed that fast as well, while still being an exceptional offensive threat (Zubov ranks 3rd among NHL defensemen in total points scored over the last decade and has averaged over 50 points a season during his stay in Dallas one of the most strictest defensive systems of that era).

Zubov has done well in a defensive system(although he led the league in giveaways two seasons ago)

Zubov will always be among the top in giveaways since he's always ahead of his teammates. His vision and creativeness is that good.

but he also had a defensive standout in Derian Hatcher alongside him for a long time in Dallas. Jovo never had that luxury. The closest Jovo has is Ohlund(who is no slouch defensively), but they almost never play as a pairing. Jovo has been paired with makeshift top 4 d-men in Marek Malik and Scott Lachance, not Norris trophy candidates in Derian Hatcher like Zubov has.

Get your facts straight, last season was the first and only season Hatcher and Zubov played together. Zubov always played with Darryl Sydor, while Hatcher formed a shutdown duo with Richard Matvichuk.

Smarts is nice, but a combination of smarts and toughness is even better. I'm not saying that Jovo is as smart on the ice as a guy like Lidstrom or even Zubov, but he knows his way around the ice, and unlike the 1st two, can change the momentum of the game with a big hit, or scare guys away from carrying the puck around him for too long. Physical play is nothing to balk at, I'm sure your favorite d-man in Derian Hatcher wouldn't...

Jovo is far from smart, he often makes the wrong decision in the most crucial situations and enjoys an occasional brainfart at least once a game.

Just a little info for you. The last two seasons, Jovo has finished in the top 10 in voting for the Norris trophy(6th two seasons ago, 5th last year) Zubov hasn't cracked the top 10. I'll take the professionals oppinions over yours...

Again get your freakin facts straight, you don't cary much credit making everything up. Sergei Zubov finished 8th in the Norris voting last season, 7th in 1998 and 4th in 1993. All this said, Scott Niedermayer ended up with 3 votes last season, below the likes of Boyle and Kaberle, again, not exactly something to measure defensemen with.

Then I saw your previous post mentioning about d-men you felt were a level if not more above Jovo, you included a bunch, including Zubov. Yet, now you suddenly act like Jovo is God's gift to Defense, being the result of the emerge of Ray Bourque, Lidstrom and Chris Pronger.

All in all, Sergei Zubov is currently a superior defenseman then Ed Jovanavski. Easily more skilled and thus better offensively, better defensively, the better leader and has a knack for coming up big during crunch time, hell check his postseason totals (almost 100 points in 137 contests). He probably leads the "non-elite" pack as the 4th or 5th best defensemen in the entire National Hockey League. Ed Jovanovski is the complete package that could very well challenge for that position as well once he meets his full potential, but as of right now, he hasn't put all pieces together and use them on a consistant base, Zubov has, for almost a decade now.

Next time, make sure you come up with actual facts rather then making eveything up in my disadvantage. You just continue to make Jovo overrated and help proving my case how underrated Zubov remains.

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Old
10-20-2003, 09:32 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
Hitchcocks's system was a defence first NHL style, not a concentration camp. Get over it.

Survived? jesus man.
You have absolutely no clue how the sudden transition from stricltly offensive to defense first affects a player. Zubov handled it well, adjusted his game, made himself a longstand on the PK while still contubuting up till 50 points a season.

As for BES, ranking Foote and Gonchar "flat out" better then Zubov isn't anything more then a farce, Zubov seriously needs to get some credit around here, hell, he led the postseason in ppg among defenseman and currently leads the pack once again. Foote is too one sided to be ranked at the top, much less two levels above Derian Hatcher. I view Sergei Gonchar as a simular calibre as Sergei Zubov, both are arguably top 5 defensemen.

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Old
10-20-2003, 09:41 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
Quoted from Peter Griffin: Speculation. You have no clue of whether or not Jovo would have flourished under Hitchcock's system. Right now Jovo is playing great offensively and great defensively, who says he couldn't do it in a defensive system?

You are right that it's all speculation, but Zubov excelled so good at it since I highly doubt anyone could succeed that fast as well, while still being an exceptional offensive threat (Zubov ranks 3rd among NHL defensemen in total points scored over the last decade and has averaged over 50 points a season during his stay in Dallas one of the most strictest defensive systems of that era).

Zubov has done well in a defensive system(although he led the league in giveaways two seasons ago)

Zubov will always be among the top in giveaways since he's always ahead of his teammates. His vision and creativeness is that good.

but he also had a defensive standout in Derian Hatcher alongside him for a long time in Dallas. Jovo never had that luxury. The closest Jovo has is Ohlund(who is no slouch defensively), but they almost never play as a pairing. Jovo has been paired with makeshift top 4 d-men in Marek Malik and Scott Lachance, not Norris trophy candidates in Derian Hatcher like Zubov has.

Get your facts straight, last season was the first and only season Hatcher and Zubov played together. Zubov always played with Darryl Sydor, while Hatcher formed a shutdown duo with Richard Matvichuk.

Smarts is nice, but a combination of smarts and toughness is even better. I'm not saying that Jovo is as smart on the ice as a guy like Lidstrom or even Zubov, but he knows his way around the ice, and unlike the 1st two, can change the momentum of the game with a big hit, or scare guys away from carrying the puck around him for too long. Physical play is nothing to balk at, I'm sure your favorite d-man in Derian Hatcher wouldn't...

Jovo is far from smart, he often makes the wrong decision in the most crucial situations and enjoys an occasional brainfart at least once a game.

Just a little info for you. The last two seasons, Jovo has finished in the top 10 in voting for the Norris trophy(6th two seasons ago, 5th last year) Zubov hasn't cracked the top 10. I'll take the professionals oppinions over yours...

Again get your freakin facts straight, you don't cary much credit making everything up. Sergei Zubov finished 8th in the Norris voting last season, 7th in 1998 and 4th in 1993. All this said, Scott Niedermayer ended up with 3 votes last season, below the likes of Boyle and Kaberle, again, not exactly something to measure defensemen with.

Then I saw your previous post mentioning about d-men you felt were a level if not more above Jovo, you included a bunch, including Zubov. Yet, now you suddenly act like Jovo is God's gift to Defense, being the result of the emerge of Ray Bourque, Lidstrom and Chris Pronger.

All in all, Sergei Zubov is currently a superior defenseman then Ed Jovanavski. Easily more skilled and thus better offensively, better defensively, the better leader and has a knack for coming up big during crunch time, hell check his postseason totals (almost 100 points in 137 contests). He probably leads the "non-elite" pack as the 4th or 5th best defensemen in the entire National Hockey League. Ed Jovanovski is the complete package that could very well challenge for that position as well once he meets his full potential, but as of right now, he hasn't put all pieces together and use them on a consistant base, Zubov has, for almost a decade now.

Next time, make sure you come up with actual facts rather then making eveything up in my disadvantage. You just continue to make Jovo overrated and help proving my case how underrated Zubov remains.
stop it modano=g, you are making a horrible assessment of jovanovski.

you say jovanovski makes brainfart plays during games. what are they? they are giveaways in the neutral zone. despite the fact that ZUBOV MAKES MORE GIVEAWAYS, i would consider zubov a bigger defensive liability than jovo.

you said this about zubov's giveaways
"""""""""""""""""""""'Zubov will always be among the top in giveaways since he's always ahead of his teammates. His vision and creativeness is that good."""""""""""""""

you said this about jovo's giveaways
"""""""""""""""""""""Jovo is far from smart, he often makes the wrong decision in the most crucial situations and enjoys an occasional brainfart at least once a game.""""""""""""""""""

sounds to me like someone isn't being very impartial

zubov last yera also played on an excellent team who made him a better player in a macroscope. zubov was horrid on the rangers and on the stars of 2001 who failed to make the playoffs. zubov also led the nhl in giveaways that year. so until zubov hits more frequently and plays a better overall game, i'll take jovo before him. you must might wanna consider that zubov is a few years older too

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Old
10-20-2003, 09:47 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
You are right that it's all speculation, but Zubov excelled so good at it since I highly doubt anyone could succeed that fast as well, while still being an exceptional offensive threat (Zubov ranks 3rd among NHL defensemen in total points scored over the last deacde and has averaged over 50 points a season during his stay in Dallasm one of the most strictest defensive systrems of that era).
I guess we'll never know. As a comparison, Brian Rafalski has put up great offensive totals in a defensive system and has played good defense as well. By your logic, Rafalski is just as good as Zubov.


Quote:
Zubov will always be among the top in giveaways since he's always ahead of his teammates. His vision and creativeness is that good.
You have to sugar coat everything to do with your favorite players, don't you? "Zubov's just so damn good that the rest of the team is causing him to create turnovers", give me a break

Quote:
Get your facts straight, last season was the first and only season Hatcher and Zubov played. Zubov always played with Darryl Sydor, while Hatcher formed a shutdown duo with Richard Matvichuk.
Zubov has still played with very good d-men. Jovo has played with Scott Lachance and Marek Malik, 5th/6th d-men at best. HUGE diffrence.

Quote:
Jovo is far from smart, he often makes the wrong decision in the most crucial situations and enjoys an occasional brainfart at least once a game.
Most of Jovo's "brainfarts" occur in the neutral zone, when he is trying one of his famous long bomb passes through the neutral zone. He's a risky defender, not a stupid one. That said, Jovo could improve in the defensive zone with his decision making.

Quote:
Again get your freakin facts straight, you don't cary much credit making everything up. Sergei Zubov finished 8th in the Norris voting last season, 7th in 1998 and 4th in 1993. All this said, Scott Niedermayer ended up with 3 votes last season, below the likes of Boyle and Kaberle, again, not exactly something to measure defensemen with.
I was unaware that Zubov finished 8th last season, as for the "hasn't cracked the top 10 mark" I should've been more clear. I meant he hasn't cracked the top 10 in the least 3 seasons(which was wrong. BTW, where did you get your numbers?). Still, that doesn't change the fact that Jovo has finished higher in voting the last two seasons. So, how does this make Zubov a Norris trophy candidate, and Jovo not?

Quote:
Then I saw your previous post mentioning about d-men you felt were a level if not more above Jovo, you included a bunch, including Zubov. Yet, now you suddenly act like Jovo is God's gift to Defense, being the result of the emerge of Ray Bourque, Lidstrom and Chris Pronger.
What?

Yes, I feel that Jovo and Zubov are on par overall, where have I said otherwise? You're the one that is saying that "Jovo aint got nothing" on Zubov. I'm disagreeing. How is that saying that "Jovo is God's gift to defense"?

[quote]
All in all, Sergei Zubov is currently a superior defenseman then Ed Jovanavski. Easily more skilled and thus better offensively, better defensively, the better leader and has a knack for coming up big during crunch time, hell check his postseason totals (almost 100 points in 137 contests). He probably leads the "non-elite" pack as the 4

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10-20-2003, 09:49 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
You are right that it's all speculation, but Zubov excelled so good at it since I highly doubt anyone could succeed that fast as well, while still being an exceptional offensive threat (Zubov ranks 3rd among NHL defensemen in total points scored over the last deacde and has averaged over 50 points a season during his stay in Dallasm one of the most strictest defensive systrems of that era).
I guess we'll never know. As a comparison, Brian Rafalski has put up great offensive totals in a defensive system and has played good defense as well. By your logic, Rafalski is just as good as Zubov.


Quote:
Zubov will always be among the top in giveaways since he's always ahead of his teammates. His vision and creativeness is that good.
You have to sugar coat everything to do with your favorite players, don't you? "Zubov's just so damn good that the rest of the team is causing him to create turnovers", give me a break

Quote:
Get your facts straight, last season was the first and only season Hatcher and Zubov played. Zubov always played with Darryl Sydor, while Hatcher formed a shutdown duo with Richard Matvichuk.
Zubov has still played with very good d-men. Jovo has played with Scott Lachance and Marek Malik, 5th/6th d-men at best. HUGE diffrence.

Quote:
Jovo is far from smart, he often makes the wrong decision in the most crucial situations and enjoys an occasional brainfart at least once a game.
Most of Jovo's "brainfarts" occur in the neutral zone, when he is trying one of his famous long bomb passes through the neutral zone. He's a risky defender, not a stupid one. That said, Jovo could improve in the defensive zone with his decision making.

Quote:
Again get your freakin facts straight, you don't cary much credit making everything up. Sergei Zubov finished 8th in the Norris voting last season, 7th in 1998 and 4th in 1993. All this said, Scott Niedermayer ended up with 3 votes last season, below the likes of Boyle and Kaberle, again, not exactly something to measure defensemen with.
I was unaware that Zubov finished 8th last season, as for the "hasn't cracked the top 10 mark" I should've been more clear. I meant he hasn't cracked the top 10 in the least 3 seasons(which was wrong. BTW, where did you get your numbers?). Still, that doesn't change the fact that Jovo has finished higher in voting the last two seasons. So, how does this make Zubov a Norris trophy candidate, and Jovo not?

Quote:
Then I saw your previous post mentioning about d-men you felt were a level if not more above Jovo, you included a bunch, including Zubov. Yet, now you suddenly act like Jovo is God's gift to Defense, being the result of the emerge of Ray Bourque, Lidstrom and Chris Pronger.
What?

Yes, I feel that Jovo and Zubov are on par overall, where have I said otherwise? You're the one that is saying that "Jovo aint got nothing" on Zubov. I'm disagreeing. How is that saying that "Jovo is God's gift to defense"?

Quote:
All in all, Sergei Zubov is currently a superior defenseman then Ed Jovanavski. Easily more skilled and thus better offensively, better defensively, the better leader and has a knack for coming up big during crunch time, hell check his postseason totals (almost 100 points in 137 contests). He probably leads the "non-elite" pack as the 4th or 5th best defensemen in the entire National Hockey League. Ed Jovanovski is the complete package that could very well challenge for that position as well once he meets his full potential, but as of right now, he hasn't put all pieces together and use them on a consistant base, Zubov has, for almost a decade now.
Quote:
Next time, make sure you come up with actual facts rather then making eveything up in my disadvantage. You just continue to make Jovo overrated and help proving my case how underrated Zubov remains.
Try taking your own advice for once. By you saying that Zubov is superior to Jovo in all categories doesn't make it the truth. As for coming up big in the postseason, he led the team in goals last post-season with 7. He's not as seasoned as Zubov, but he's a big performer.

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Old
10-20-2003, 09:52 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by MoS
stop it modano=g, you are making a horrible assessment of jovanovski.

you say jovanovski makes brainfart plays during games. what are they? they are giveaways in the neutral zone. despite the fact that ZUBOV MAKES MORE GIVEAWAYS, i would consider zubov a bigger defensive liability than jovo.

you said this about zubov's giveaways
"""""""""""""""""""""'Zubov will always be among the top in giveaways since he's always ahead of his teammates. His vision and creativeness is that good."""""""""""""""

you said this about jovo's giveaways
"""""""""""""""""""""Jovo is far from smart, he often makes the wrong decision in the most crucial situations and enjoys an occasional brainfart at least once a game.""""""""""""""""""

sounds to me like someone isn't being very impartial

zubov last yera also played on an excellent team who made him a better player in a macroscope. zubov was horrid on the rangers and on the stars of 2001 who failed to make the playoffs. zubov also led the nhl in giveaways that year. so until zubov hits more frequently and plays a better overall game, i'll take jovo before him. you must might wanna consider that zubov is a few years older too
Learn to quote..

There's a difference in giveaways, Zubov's teammates are the ones to blame for not being able to keep up with him. When Jovo f's up, it's usually not pretty.

Then we are arrived at the "Zubov played on an excellent team" crap. Zubov was so called horrid on the Rangers, in which he averaged above a ppg and actually led defensemen in scoring. Damn, I'm glad those days are behind him, 2nd of all, every Dallas Star player enjoyed a God awful 2001 campaign, but if there was an exception, it was Sergei Zubov, far from horrid, he was his usual steady self while contributing offensively with 44 points, stop looking and trying to make judgements based on stats, and even if you would strictly base it on stats, the difference becomes even bigger if you would calculate properly.

And your last sentence doesn't make any sence what so ever, guess you would prefer him over Niklas Lidstrom too then, since he would fit, or actually not fit, your criteria either. Age means squat when you haven't declined, we ain't trying to judge one's trading value.

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Old
10-20-2003, 10:00 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
Learn to quote..

There's a difference in giveaways, Zubov's teammates are the ones to blame for not being able to keep up with him. When Jovo f's up, it's usually not pretty.

Then we are arrived at the "Zubov played on an excellent team" crap. Zubov was so called horrid on the Rangers, in which he averaged above a ppg and actually led defensemen in scoring. Damn, I'm glad those days are behind him, 2nd of all, every Dallas Star player enjoyed a God awful 2001 campaign, but if there was an exception, it was Sergei Zubov, far from horrid, he was his usual steady self while contributing offensively with 44 points, stop looking and trying to make judgements based on stats, and even if you would strictly base it on stats, the difference becomes even bigger if you would calculate properly.

And your last sentence doesn't make any sence what so ever, guess you would prefer him over Niklas Lidstrom too then, since he would fit, or actually not fit, your criteria either. Age means squat when you haven't declined, we ain't trying to judge one's trading value.
yep lets blame everything on modano, lehtinen, arnott, guerin, turgeon, morrow, barnes, young, dahlen, miettinen, nieuweudyke, langenbrunner for not being able to catch up to zubov's superb vision. if i ice the puck on every play, does that mean its my teammates fault for not reading the play and not getting to the puck fast enough?

i don't care if everyone had a horrid 2001 season. if zubov sucked that year, then he sucked. there are no exceptions. it simple means he is inconsistent.

zubov has players like hatcher, sydor, numminen, boucher and matvichuk to help him out D. jovo has had squat other than ohlund before last year

age isn't a big difference no. but when you said you'd rather have zubov over jovo. i contest because jovo is a couple of years younger so that makes the decision much easier for me. suppose i give you bouwmeester and macinnis to choose from...

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10-20-2003, 10:09 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
[I][
Zubov will always be among the top in giveaways since he's always ahead of his teammates. His vision and creativeness is that good.


Quote of the year right there!

Regardless of wether or not you're ahead of your teammates, a giveaway is a giveaway.

I'm not going to get into the whole debate thread here. As soon as M=G got into the thread you had to know that it was going to be a Dallas Star>God argument.

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10-20-2003, 10:17 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandnucker


Quote of the year right there!

Regardless of wether or not you're ahead of your teammates, a giveaway is a giveaway.

I'm not going to get into the whole debate thread here. As soon as M=G got into the thread you had to know that it was going to be a Dallas Star>God argument.
I realise it would be a funny quote to understand for the ignorant and blatant Vancouver fanbase, but nothing is more true.

Zubov thinks and reacts so fasts, that he often passes it before his teammates have even time to react and adjust to the transition.

A prime example was his "deking 3 Ducks out of their socks before passing it to Stu Barnes" move during opening night, he skated through a bunch of Ducks with impressive moves and made a tape to tape pass to Stu Barnes while not looking where he stood. Granted Stu Barnes scored it but on most occasions, Stars players seem too slow to react.

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10-20-2003, 10:21 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
I realise it would be a funny quote to understand for the ignorant and blatant Vancouver fanbase, but nothing is more true.

Zubov thinks and reacts so fasts, that he often passes it before his teammates have even time to react and adjust to the transition.

A prime example was his "deking 3 Ducks out of their socks before passing it to Stu Barnes" move during opening night, he skated through a bunch of Ducks with impressive moves and made a tape to tape pass to Stu Barnes while not looking where he stood. Granted Stu Barnes scored it but on most occasions, Stars players seem too slow to react.
Maybe he just makes bad decisions at times?

You don't lead the league in giveaways because you were just too good for your team. If that was the case, why wouldn't Zubov figure out that his teammates couldn't keep up with him, and stop trying to be fancy? Make the safe play if the nice play isn't going to work out.

Zubov = God?

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10-20-2003, 10:26 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
I realise it would be a funny quote to understand for the ignorant and blatant Vancouver fanbase, but nothing is more true.

Zubov thinks and reacts so fasts, that he often passes it before his teammates have even time to react and adjust to the transition.

A prime example was his "deking 3 Ducks out of their socks before passing it to Stu Barnes" move during opening night, he skated through a bunch of Ducks with impressive moves and made a tape to tape pass to Stu Barnes while not looking where he stood. Granted Stu Barnes scored it but on most occasions, Stars players seem too slow to react.
i wasn't even going to reply to that. but the fact that you think its too hard """"""""""to understand for the ignorant and blatant Vancouver fanbase""""""". i don't think your argument presents a feasible point since most of the times his passes get picked off and i don't think his teammates could alter the speed and direction of his passes. its as dumb as saying Kobe Bryant is such a ball hogger because takes all the shots and implicitly he limits the amount of shaq's rebounds.

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10-20-2003, 10:27 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Maybe he just makes bad decisions at times?

Zubov = God?
Oh sure he does, every defenseman including Lidstom enjoys a few "mistakes" here and there. Zubov often tries to get the puck out of his zone in a too fancy way, this leads to a not effective transition game. But don't blame him for being too creative to keep up with.. He rarely is responsible for an opposing goal, rarely.

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10-20-2003, 10:28 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Modano = God
Oh sure he does, every defenseman including Lidstom enjoys a few "mistakes" here and there. Zubov often tries to get the puck out of his zone in a too fancy way, this leads to a not effective transition game. But don't blame him for being too creative to keep up with.. He rarely is responsible for an opposing goal, rarely.
Once again, sounds a lot like Jovo has been for the last year...

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Old
10-20-2003, 10:29 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
Oh sure he does, every defenseman including Lidstom enjoys a few "mistakes" here and there. Zubov often tries to get the puck out of his zone in a too fancy way, this leads to a not effective transition game. But don't blame him for being too creative to keep up with.. He rarely is responsible for an opposing goal, rarely.
then don't blame jovo for trying to be fancy

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10-20-2003, 10:31 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Zubov = God?
Also, while Zub is better, I have never ever claimed him to be a legit and bonafide Norris candidate, much less actual winner. This while the entire Vancouver fanbase is of the opinion Jovo will not actually contend, but actually outperform Zubov, Pronger, and yes, Lidstrom to take the crown.

You aren't in the position to say I overrate Zubov.. go ask well known posters who is underrated and overrated on these boards.. good chance both these guys will make the lists in your disadvantage.

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10-20-2003, 10:34 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
Also, while Zub is better, I have never ever claimed him to be a legit and bonafide Norris candidate, much less actual winner. This while the entire Vancouver fanbase is of the opinion Jovo will not actually contend, but actually outperform Zubov, Pronger, and yes, Lidstrom to take the crown.
no we didn't.

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10-20-2003, 10:34 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoS
then don't blame jovo for trying to be fancy
Jovo couldn't pull the moves Zubov does, not by a long shot, not many can. Both are totally different defensemen and Zubov's turnovers or trying to be too fancy moves are totally different then Jovo's.

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10-20-2003, 10:38 AM
  #71
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i know that jovo's moves are made trying to produce a goal for his team. i don't know about these "MoveS" zubov's been making...

but when they both been making giveaways and turnovers, unless zubov's giveaways have resulted in poorer handling by the other team i wouldn't differentiate between the two

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10-20-2003, 10:39 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
Jovo couldn't pull the moves Zubov does, not by a long shot, not many can. Both are totally different defensemen and Zubov's turnovers or trying to be too fancy moves are totally different then Jovo's.
i know that jovo's moves are made trying to produce a goal for his team. i don't know about these "MoveS" zubov's been making...

but when they both been making giveaways and turnovers, unless zubov's giveaways have resulted in poorer handling by the other team i wouldn't differentiate between the two

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10-20-2003, 10:39 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
Zubov will always be among the top in giveaways since he's always ahead of his teammates. His vision and creativeness is that good.
It's quotes like this that remove any kind of credibility from your argument.

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10-20-2003, 10:40 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoS
i know that jovo's moves are made trying to produce a goal for his team. i don't know about these "MoveS" zubov's been making...

but when they both been making giveaways and turnovers, unless zubov's giveaways have resulted in poorer handling by the other team i wouldn't differentiate between the two
95% of Zubov's turnovers are the ones where he's a step ahead in the offensive end. The other 5% is him trying trying to clear the puck in a too fancy way.

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10-20-2003, 10:41 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
It's quotes like this that remove any kind of credibility from your argument.
You missed the 2 pages where I tried to explain this..

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