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Is Sundin tradeable?

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10-20-2003, 07:08 AM
  #26
Shawn
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Originally Posted by leaflover
One good sign in Sundins play saturday was the fact he was in a pissy mood.He grabbed a guy by the face and pushed and shoved and generally did the things a guy who's unhappy with his results does.He has the determination to get himself going,and doesn't need a 10 game pointless stretch to make him realize he needs to work harder.He'll be fine and IMO top 70 points again this year.

The thing i find strange about Sundin or at least his stats is that there is little variance in his year end point totals regardless of who his linemates are.It seems he's going to do very close to a PPG no matter who he plays with,within reason of course.I'm sure centering Belak and Fitzgerald all season would bring his numbers down a tad.

Woot, 9+ million for a guy to score 70 points.

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10-20-2003, 07:29 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by sluggo
Depends on the situation. If at the deadline the Leafs are in 11th place I'm sure you could find a contending team willing to take him for some draft picks and/or a good propsect/young player.
If the Leafs were to offer up Sundin around the league, there's no doubt in my mind that there would be plenty of interested teams.

But even if we were in 11th place I certainly wouldn't be interested in trading Sundin for draft picks.

Plain and simple it won't happen.

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10-20-2003, 07:44 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by sluggo
The history of the NHL is full of players playing in the playoffs hurt and on broken legs etc.... His sitting out a lot of the 2002 playoffs also hurt his "standing" with a lot of fans. And last year he said over and over again he was fine, and even took his shield off in game three.
First of all, I doubt anyone has ever played with a broken leg....

But anyway, Sundin said he was fine?

What do you want him to say? "I'm in a lot of pain and it really hurts everytime someone hits me. So please tell Keith Primeau to take it easy on me for a while."

Have you ever had your wisdom teeth taken out? Well times that by 2 and you might get an idea of what Sundin was going through last year.

He was on pain killers and couldn't even eat properly which further sapped his strength. It's hard enough to sit on the couch and watch TV in that situation let alone compete at the NHL level.

The fact that he took his shield off really speaks volumes about Sundin's heart. He was having trouble scoring because of his injury and he was willing to do anything he could to snap out of it. Even if it meant risking his safety and possibly going through more excruciating pain.

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10-20-2003, 07:54 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Leaf Army
Have you ever had your wisdom teeth taken out? Well times that by 2 and you might get an idea of what Sundin was going through last year.
.
How do you know this?

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10-20-2003, 08:01 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by ACC1224
How do you know this?
Sundin had major damage to his mouth. He was in surgery for something like 6 hours. You don't have to be an oral surgeon to get an idea of what Sundin was going through.

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10-20-2003, 08:10 AM
  #31
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"But even if we were in 11th place I certainly wouldn't be interested in trading Sundin for draft picks"

GIven where the Leafs will be going after the workstopage, getting a couple first round picks (least one) and a good offensive prospect would be a good deal for the leafs. Dump an older player who won't be in the picture when the young defensemen start to mature and get some young players who could/will be.

"First of all, I doubt anyone has ever played with a broken leg"

I hate that I can't remember his name, but a Leaf foward got a GWG goal in the playoffs playing on a broken leg. Plays go out and play with broken bones all the time (look at Yzerman or Roberts two years ago) and Sundin didn't. Plus they both produced more.

"Have you ever had your wisdom teeth taken out? Well times that by 2 and you might get an idea of what Sundin was going through last year."

I've my wisdom teeth out and 2 teeth knocked out. And if he couldn't play then he shouldn't been out there. And it was clear by game 3 that Sundin was ok, still no production.

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10-20-2003, 08:21 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
GIven where the Leafs will be going after the workstopage, getting a couple first round picks (least one) and a good offensive prospect would be a good deal for the leafs. Dump an older player who won't be in the picture when the young defensemen start to mature and get some young players who could/will be..
As it has already been made quite clear here, Sundin won't fetch a couple first rounders or top notch prospects. Not unless Toronto eats a huge chunk of his salary, and I'm not much of a fan of paying people to play elsewhere. The Rangers would probably be the only team to take Sundins whole salary, but we certainly wouldn't get much in teh way of a return. The only way Sundin goes is if a big salary comes back, which would be lateral at best. It's all moot as Sundin has a NTC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
I hate that I can't remember his name, but a Leaf foward got a GWG goal in the playoffs playing on a broken leg. Plays go out and play with broken bones all the time (look at Yzerman or Roberts two years ago) and Sundin didn't. Plus they both produced more..
Bobby Baun scored the winner on a broken leg, as the legend goes. As far as I know though, it is a greatly exaggerated story and his injury was more likely a hairline fracture than an actual break.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
I've my wisdom teeth out and 2 teeth knocked out. And if he couldn't play then he shouldn't been out there. And it was clear by game 3 that Sundin was ok, still no production.
He ws good enough to be out there, that doesn't mean hes at 100%. Sundin at 50% still puts him on our top two lines. Sundin has 65points in
74 playoff games. He is 36points in 36 games in the three seasons the Leafs have made the conference finals. Your beloved playoff hero, Gary Roberts, has 77 points in 101 games. Gary Roberts in his miraculous playoff run of monumental leadership scored 19 points in 19 games whic his only marginally better than Sundin's career playoff record.

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Old
10-20-2003, 08:44 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
GIven where the Leafs will be going after the workstopage, getting a couple first round picks (least one) and a good offensive prospect would be a good deal for the leafs. Dump an older player who won't be in the picture when the young defensemen start to mature and get some young players who could/will be.
If the Leafs were to trade Sundin, that would essentially mean that they are throwing in the towel.

If there is a perception that the Leafs are giving up that means saying goodbye to; Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Mogilny, Fitzgerald, Reichel, Renberg, Domi, Klee, Marchment and Belfour. All of those guys would want out of Toronto.

And just try to lure quality free agents here after we just traded our best player. Not gonna happen. Players will avoid Toronto like the plague.

And there's no way that our prospect base (or anyone else's for that matter) is strong enough to replace what those players bring to this team.

Trading Sundin would doom us to missing the playoffs for at least 5 years. We are not in a position where we need to do that.

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10-20-2003, 08:47 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
"But even if we were in 11th place I certainly wouldn't be interested in trading Sundin for draft picks"

GIven where the Leafs will be going after the workstopage, getting a couple first round picks (least one) and a good offensive prospect would be a good deal for the leafs. Dump an older player who won't be in the picture when the young defensemen start to mature and get some young players who could/will be.

"First of all, I doubt anyone has ever played with a broken leg"

I hate that I can't remember his name, but a Leaf foward got a GWG goal in the playoffs playing on a broken leg. Plays go out and play with broken bones all the time (look at Yzerman or Roberts two years ago) and Sundin didn't. Plus they both produced more.

"Have you ever had your wisdom teeth taken out? Well times that by 2 and you might get an idea of what Sundin was going through last year."

I've my wisdom teeth out and 2 teeth knocked out. And if he couldn't play then he shouldn't been out there. And it was clear by game 3 that Sundin was ok, still no production.
Sundin is tradeable but will be tough to find someone to take him on at $8-million a year.......He's either past his prime OR Quinn is not allowing him to play his game.

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10-20-2003, 09:10 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
I hate that I can't remember his name, but a Leaf foward got a GWG goal in the playoffs playing on a broken leg. Plays go out and play with broken bones all the time (look at Yzerman or Roberts two years ago) and Sundin didn't.
Yes he did, two years ago, Game 1 vs. NYI Sundin suffers a fractured wrist and continues to play until Game 4 when the swelling and pain became too unbearable to play at all. Came back late in series against Ottawa without full recovery.

BTW, is the player you're thinking of Bobby Baun who scored the winner playing with a broken foot?

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Old
10-20-2003, 01:24 PM
  #36
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Since we getting crazy...

Sundin for Jagr. :p

If we want a big guy who floats, let's get the way more talented one.

Make Roberts the Captain, Mogilny and Nieuwendyk wear the A's.

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Old
10-20-2003, 01:40 PM
  #37
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I'm not I"M down on Sundin for playoff preformances (I think he....wussed out a bit 2 years ago) and latetly hes disapeared in the playoffs, and you can't always blame it on injury (if Yzerman can play on a shot knee and produce and Roberts can play with 2 bad shoulders and produce why would some teeth missing hurt Sundins production?) but for the most part hes been good. If you read what I said I was just just pointing out why some fans want to see him moved to those who don't understand why.

"As it has already been made quite clear here, Sundin won't fetch a couple first rounders or top notch prospects. Not unless Toronto eats a huge chunk of his salary, and I'm not much of a fan of paying people to play elsewhere. The Rangers would probably be the only team to take Sundins whole salary, but we certainly wouldn't get much in teh way of a return"

If they still have him and the Leafs are in that situation (and no, I'm not saying this is very likely, just possible) I could see a Sundin/Cujo & pick trade. The Wings need a #1 center with Yzerman being hurt and Fedorov leaving, and the Leafs could pick up the rest of Cujos contract. Because the Leafs would be taking the extra goalie from the Wings and giving them what they need the Wings through in a #1 pick (and with theri system they can afford it). And with Cujos contract up in 2005, the Leafs would only have to pay him for something like 6 weeks. I also think some team will give up a top centerman for Cujo (for the sack of argument the Islanders giving up Yashin), that team would be a contender of course and if they have a good chance at winning and I think would be very willing to give up a top pick and/or prospect for Sundin. As with any superstar player with a big contract it all depends on circumstances.

"If the Leafs were to trade Sundin, that would essentially mean that they are throwing in the towel"

Given where they will be after the new CBA (a very young team) if they came in at like 11th I think throwing in the towel wouldn't be such a bad idea.

"Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Mogilny, Fitzgerald, Reichel, Renberg, Domi, Klee, Marchment and Belfour. All of those guys would want out of Toronto".

A lot of those guys (Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Marchment) came to Toronto to end their carrer, I doubt they would want to leave. Klee wants to play here and is taking this year as a chance to earn a bigger contract, I think he'd stay. The rest wouldn't be a problem, they'd be pretty much done with the Leafs anyway. All their contracts are up after this year (or during the workstopage) and are in their mid 30's.

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Old
10-20-2003, 02:00 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
A lot of those guys (Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Marchment) came to Toronto to end their carrer, I doubt they would want to leave. Klee wants to play here and is taking this year as a chance to earn a bigger contract, I think he'd stay. The rest wouldn't be a problem, they'd be pretty much done with the Leafs anyway. All their contracts are up after this year (or during the workstopage) and are in their mid 30's.
Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Marchment, Klee, Renberg, Reichel, Fitzgerald and Belfour will all be free agents after this year. Yes, I realize that some of those guys won't be resigned regardless of what happens.

But none of those guys will resign with Toronto if they thought the Leafs aren't commited to winning. Even if they planned on finishing their career in Toronto.

Other quality free agents wouldn't want to come here either. That leaves us with basically no team. That would not be a good situation to be in under any circumstances whatsoever.

We don't need to be in that situation, so why would we put ourselves in that situation? It doesn't make sense.

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10-20-2003, 02:10 PM
  #39
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Klees only 32 and he seems to want to play in TO. He could be willing to play here, be a leader for the young guys and be a 35-36 year old leader to a young core in a couple years. The rest I wouldn't bet on seeing back in the Leafs reguardless of how they do - cup winners or 30th in the league.

Look at where the Leafs will be after the work stopage. Colaiacovo, Bell, Harrison, Kondratiev, Tellqvist, Stajan, Steen all ready for the NHL, with a couple others possibly being ready (White, Imminmen, Williams) so unless you want to trade those guys away for vet players the Leafs are going to be young team working their up for a couple years. They wouldn't only have Sundin, Nolan, Tucker and Kaberle (maybe McCabe and Klee) left. Not many vets who want to win now are going to be interested anyway.

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10-20-2003, 04:39 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
Sundins also had several lack-luster playoff preformances as well, another point of fustration for a lot of fans..


I like how you side-stepped my reply to your assertation that Sundin only plays well in contract years.

As someone already pointed out; your much beloved hero Roberts and his fantastic production is not in the same level as Sundin, in the playoffs; but you'll come with some b.s. excuse (probably blame Kaberle).

As for Yzerman. He did not play with a broken leg. It is damn near impossible to walk, let alone skate in an NHL game with a broken leg. Bobby Baun is the only one of note, and his story has its share of urban legend. Yzerman fractured his fibula, which is a NON-weight bearing bone.

Yzerman played one game that playoff season. Six minutes in Game 1.

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10-20-2003, 05:00 PM
  #41
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"As someone already pointed out; your much beloved hero Roberts and his fantastic production is not in the same level as Sundin, in the playoffs"

recently Roberts has done more, and its not only about point production. Roberts lifted the Leafs on his shoulders and ran with the team, something Sundins never done.

"As for Yzerman. He did not play with a broken leg"

I never said Yzerman skated with a broken leg, he skated with a terrible knee, but not broken. And that year (2001-2002) he played 23 games and had 23 points

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10-20-2003, 05:13 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo

I never said Yzerman skated with a broken leg, he skated with a terrible knee, but not broken. And that year (2001-2002) he played 23 games and had 23 points
What is this then ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
I hate that I can't remember his name, but a Leaf foward got a GWG goal in the playoffs playing on a broken leg. Plays go out and play with broken bones all the time (look at Yzerman or Roberts two years ago) and Sundin didn't. Plus they both produced more.
.

Yzerman played with (and I quote) a "a sore and swollen" knee. He had reconstrcutive surgery in January of that year (after the Olympics). In no way shape or form, am I saying Sundin is a better leader/captain than Yzerman because he isn't; but you are not using the proper examples.

What broken bones did Roberts play through ?

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10-20-2003, 05:18 PM
  #43
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BlueAndWhite - Roberts and Yzerman were INJURIED, they played hurt and had great playoff runs. Roberts carried the Leafs on this shoulders in a way that Sundin never has. Yzerman played on bad knees that hurt like a ***** and needed surgery, getting a point-per-game.

Now I'm sorry you weren't quick enough to know what I was talking about when I mentioned Roberts and Yzerman, next time I'll make sure to make it very clear for you, so you don't get confused. I just assumed a hockey fan would remember the great playoff run both players had 2 years ago and remember what I was talking about.

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10-20-2003, 05:22 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_00
Sundin is tradeable but will be tough to find someone to take him on at $8-million a year.......He's either past his prime OR Quinn is not allowing him to play his game.
Correction, 9 million!

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10-20-2003, 05:40 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo
BlueAndWhite - Roberts and Yzerman were INJURIED, they played hurt and had great playoff runs. Roberts carried the Leafs on this shoulders in a way that Sundin never has. Yzerman played on bad knees that hurt like a ***** and needed surgery, getting a point-per-game.

Now I'm sorry you weren't quick enough to know what I was talking about when I mentioned Roberts and Yzerman, next time I'll make sure to make it very clear for you, so you don't get confused. I just assumed a hockey fan would remember the great playoff run both players had 2 years ago and remember what I was talking about.
You're a tool. A big one. You make a statement, can't back it up, get called on it and then resort to B.S. like this. Yeah, I'm sorry, please spell it out for me, so that the next time you say something like ....

"players go out and play with broken bones ALL THE TIME (look at Roberts and Yzerman)"

... what you actually mean is "I'm not sure if players have played with broken bones or not, but I'll make a big assumption that they do, and I'll make the assumption even more assine by saying that they do all the time, and I'll throw in two injured players names in the same CONTEXT and point at them, when neither of them had broken bones, but I assume that you know exactly what I'm taking about"


You might be the one who is more than slightly INJURIED in the head.

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10-20-2003, 05:57 PM
  #46
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Dude both Roberts and Yzerman missed all by 14 and 16 games the next season because of those injuries. Both were in a lot of pain and played through, pushing themselve to the point where they needed surgery to repair the damage because it was the playoffs. Yzerman's knees hurt him when he WALKED, never mind skated. Sundins never done that, he didn't play through the pain in his hand, or freeze it and deal with the pain later. And hes never carried a team through the playoffs.

And yes, I would expect a hockey fan to be able to make a pretty simple jump from "broken bones" (ie - injuried) to two get vets. who carried them teams injuried 2 years ago. I guess that was too big a jump for you.

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10-21-2003, 03:03 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TR-TWѤ
With the amount & length of his contract, especially with the labour stoppage soon, you won't be able to trade him. Unless you deal him to Washington for Jagr or any high-priced player around his talent level.

But he won't be traded. He's too popular here....
The same could have been said about Clark, Sittler, Mcdonald, Gilmour... Clark was god here along with Gilmour and they were delt I think if Toronto goes into a rebuilding phaze next season Sundin could be had for the right offer...

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10-21-2003, 06:23 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by MCP
You want to see Sundin shine? Change the Leaf colours to Yellow and Blue and change our team name to the Tre Cronors.

Everytime he puts on a Sweden Sweater he plays like a God.
Oh yea! I can remember how he played at the Salt Lake Olympics!

IMO, Sundin is completely overhyped like other former Toronto "Franchise Players". Cujo is coming to my mind, where is he now playing? - I guess in Detroits AHL affiliate, correct?

Anyway, Sundin is simply not tradable, see Jagr.

I guess, no playoff action this season in Toronto. :p

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10-21-2003, 07:05 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike#16
Cujo is coming to my mind, where is he now playing? - I guess in Detroits AHL affiliate, correct?

I guess, no playoff action this season in Toronto. :p
Cujo played fine here for the Leafs. He was the single biggest reason the Leafs won their first series against Philly. Goalies have off years (see Belfour from 2 years ago) and Cujo had his last year. How he'll play this year no one can predict yet.

And don't wager money against the Leafs making the playoffs. Remember the start they had last season?

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10-21-2003, 07:09 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Dar

And don't wager money against the Leafs making the playoffs. Remember the start they had last season?
That's going to be a sure bet!

My prediction: they are going to compete with the Rags for first place in the draft lottery!

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