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Old
07-15-2016, 10:07 PM
  #51
Ducky10
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I liked it better when the Jets pretended Bobby Hull didn't exist. I have no interest in honoring horrible human beings.
It's the Winnipeg Jets hockey hall of fame, not the super great guy hof.

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07-15-2016, 11:35 PM
  #52
Hank Chinaski
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Originally Posted by Ducky10 View Post
It's the Winnipeg Jets hockey hall of fame, not the super great guy hof.
Tend to agree. I have no use for Bobby Hull as a person, but I have no problem with him being honoured for his contributions to hockey in Winnipeg.

I realize it's a sticky subject, and I don't think there's a right or wrong way of looking at it. I'm personally okay with someone being acknowledged as a great player in spite of serious personal transgressions, just so long as those transgression aren't whitewashed to justify the honour.

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07-17-2016, 01:11 PM
  #53
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Wow, there is actually a story about this on NHL.com and they actually acknowledge the existence of the WHA.

https://www.nhl.com/news/winnipeg-je...me/c-281180580

They even have an awesome picture of Hull playing with blood on his face and jersey, old school!


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07-17-2016, 02:05 PM
  #54
scelaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Tend to agree. I have no use for Bobby Hull as a person, but I have no problem with him being honoured for his contributions to hockey in Winnipeg.

I realize it's a sticky subject, and I don't think there's a right or wrong way of looking at it. I'm personally okay with someone being acknowledged as a great player in spite of serious personal transgressions, just so long as those transgression aren't whitewashed to justify the honour.
It's a very complicated business, because personal transgressions run the gamut from minor to unconscionable.
The WHA started with Hatskin and Hull at Portage and Main. Without Hull, there is no Hot Line and maybe no Aavco Cups... so I am willing to look beyond the personal to honour his pivotal contribution to professional hockey in Winnipeg.

In the end, I have always maintained it is never just about the talent; it's always about the whole package. That's why the Jets philosophy of drafting for character is so important.
With guys like Hull and Kane, you never want to choose between the person and the player, never want your kids to be seeking autographs from players you wouldn't want them to emulate outside the rink.

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07-17-2016, 02:26 PM
  #55
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I understand the Jets honouring Hull. He put Winnipeg and the Jets on the map.
That said, I would not have honoured him due to his off ice transgressions.
Reasonable people can disagree on this issue though.

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07-17-2016, 03:19 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by raideralex99 View Post
What the hell are you talking about?
Bobby Hull never turned down a fan for an autograph and always had time for the fans. I remember when I worked at the arena he came to the room and thanked all the workers at the end of the season. He even opened the door for me once entering the arena.
Hull was always great to the fans, little kids in particular.

Those close to him, not so much. Spend a few minutes with google and you'll see. Why I also have such mixed feelings about honoring him.

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07-17-2016, 03:22 PM
  #57
Tom ServoMST3K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
I understand the Jets honouring Hull. He put Winnipeg and the Jets on the map.
That said, I would not have honoured him due to his off ice transgressions.
Reasonable people can disagree on this issue though.
Yeah, I would have a problem if we retired his number, but there's no way you can tell the story of the Winnipeg Jets without him.

I definitely see both sides though.

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Old
07-17-2016, 04:24 PM
  #58
Jets4Life
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Craig MacTavish killed someone while driving drunk in the mid 80s. That is far far worse than anything Bobby Hull did.

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07-17-2016, 04:28 PM
  #59
puck stoppa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potrzebie View Post
Hull was always great to the fans, little kids in particular.

Those close to him, not so much. Spend a few minutes with google and you'll see. Why I also have such mixed feelings about honoring him.
I see kids in school getting tons of scholarship money, some of them not the nicest people, so should we not reward them for their academics because they are not respectful at times? Same idea, and serious question.

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07-17-2016, 04:32 PM
  #60
wpgsilver
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
Craig MacTavish killed someone while driving drunk in the mid 80s. That is far far worse than anything Bobby Hull did.
It is a fruitless endeavor to compare people's transgressions. If person A does something worse than person B. It in no way means what person B did wasn't wrong.

There are people who are going to be opposed to Hull's induction and people who are for it. No side of the argument will be "right".

Quote:
Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
I see kids in school getting tons of scholarship money, some of them not the nicest people, so should we not reward them for their academics because they are not respectful at times? Same idea, and serious question.
I think the analogy has a number of flaws, but I don't want to derail the thread.

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07-17-2016, 04:45 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
I liked it better when the Jets pretended Bobby Hull didn't exist. I have no interest in honoring horrible human beings.
I recall you saying you didn't care about any of Evander Kane's off ice behaviour and that only his on ice performance mattered.
Very interesting.

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Old
07-17-2016, 05:04 PM
  #62
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Does anyone know what this Winnipeg Jets HOF exactly consists of? Like is it going to be an actual building or "room", like the HOF in Toronto? Are they planning on raising their names & numbers to the rafters during that pre-game ceremony vs. the Leafs?

I recall reading news articles a few years back that the jets would raise player names & numbers to the rafters to "honour" the player & number that the player wore (much like the Leafs do), rather than actually retiring the number (like the Habs do).

I realize that type of info may not have been released yet... But I'm just curious to know if anyone knows what the plan is or what the HOF will exactly consist of and whether the plan is essentially to raise their name & number to the rafters to honour them.

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07-17-2016, 05:15 PM
  #63
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I'm not clear on what people might mean by honoring. To me, just inclusion in the hall of fame is based on a person's skill and contribution to the game. Solid factual stuff.
If they went further and wanted to rename the arena after him or stuff like that I would be more resistant. But I get that people don't like to see ****** people get rewarded.

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07-17-2016, 08:05 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
I recall you saying you didn't care about any of Evander Kane's off ice behaviour and that only his on ice performance mattered.
Very interesting.
That comment was prior to EK having any sort of legal issues. I have no problem with money phones or a showy personality. I do take issue with domestic abuse. I also have problems with domestic abusers being idolized and treated like role models.

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07-17-2016, 08:06 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Ducky10 View Post
It's the Winnipeg Jets hockey hall of fame, not the super great guy hof.
Will hockey be on stage being honored? I'm pretty sure it will he the guy.

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07-17-2016, 11:39 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
I liked it better when the Jets pretended Bobby Hull didn't exist. I have no interest in honoring horrible human beings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potrzebie View Post
Hull was always great to the fans, little kids in particular.

Those close to him, not so much. Spend a few minutes with google and you'll see. Why I also have such mixed feelings about honoring him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Yeah, I would have a problem if we retired his number, but there's no way you can tell the story of the Winnipeg Jets without him.

I definitely see both sides though.

S
ure enough, and so do I. Anyone who thinks "Bobby Hull was/is a rotten human being"... I'd suggest you read Gare Joyces The Devil & Bobby Hull before casting stones. Very very high likelihood of undiagnosed brain injury, neurological problems, concussions, CTE... And ya, as others have said, if we hold him to
such high standards, better start evictions at the Hockey Hall of Fame as well.

I think this is fabulous, what TNSE is doing... recognition of the WHA long long LONG overdue. Hopefully the league will wakeup & take notice, the HHOF in Toronto... and yeah, I say Retire #9 again along with Hedberg & Nilsson's numbers, Steens 25 & Hawerchuks #10. Those 3 numbers hanging in Gila River Arena in Glendale Az btw where they are really quite meaningless to the locals. There are others of course. Carlyle, Essensa etc... Avco Cup Banners.... Id like to see Ben Hatskin honored as well. Driving force behind the Jets, the WHA itself.


Last edited by Killion: 07-17-2016 at 11:44 PM.
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Old
07-18-2016, 08:56 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post

S
ure enough, and so do I. Anyone who thinks "Bobby Hull was/is a rotten human being"... I'd suggest you read Gare Joyces The Devil & Bobby Hull before casting stones. Very very high likelihood of undiagnosed brain injury, neurological problems, concussions, CTE... And ya, as others have said, if we hold him to
such high standards, better start evictions at the Hockey Hall of Fame as well.

I think this is fabulous, what TNSE is doing... recognition of the WHA long long LONG overdue. Hopefully the league will wakeup & take notice, the HHOF in Toronto... and yeah, I say Retire #9 again along with Hedberg & Nilsson's numbers, Steens 25 & Hawerchuks #10. Those 3 numbers hanging in Gila River Arena in Glendale Az btw where they are really quite meaningless to the locals. There are others of course. Carlyle, Essensa etc... Avco Cup Banners.... Id like to see Ben Hatskin honored as well. Driving force behind the Jets, the WHA itself.
Yeah, I wouldn't retire a single number for the Jets, but I have a higher standard for that sort of thing.

9 would be the only one I consider.

Honouring the past is overdue for the organization.

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07-18-2016, 09:19 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
Yeah, I wouldn't retire a single number for the Jets, but I have a higher standard for that sort of thing.

9 would be the only one I consider.

Honouring the past is overdue for the organization.
I would have a team policy of never retiring numbers, simply honor them instead.

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07-18-2016, 09:40 AM
  #69
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I would have a team policy of never retiring numbers, simply honor them instead.
I agree with this as well. The numbers that players are forced to select in Montreal is ridiculous, for instance.

Honour every single player / number you think worthy, but don't retire them.

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07-18-2016, 09:40 AM
  #70
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I would have a team policy of never retiring numbers, simply honor them instead.
You don't want your kids seeing #29 retired in 30 years

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Old
07-18-2016, 01:05 PM
  #71
Ducky10
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Will hockey be on stage being honored? I'm pretty sure it will he the guy.
The hockey player will be, that's what he's being honoured for, his contributions to Winnipeg hockey, not society. If you want to make it both, fine, might want to check some skeletons on some of your favourite HOF'ers though. Which transgressions should preclude a player from being honoured? Is there a list?

Things like this are never perfect, people will always have opinions about worthiness, either based on ability or what they were like off ice, the goal posts are easy to move.

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07-18-2016, 02:04 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
There are people who are going to be opposed to Hull's induction and people who are for it. No side of the argument will be "right".
Anyone else recognize a little bit of savvy in piggybacking Hull onto two others?

He needs to go in at some point, and there could have been pressure from any number of sources to do so at or before the Heritage Classic. By inducting two other than just Hull dilutes the controversy somewhat but also the fact that they are one full hockey line ties it more closely to their on-ice contributions.

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07-18-2016, 02:08 PM
  #73
Guardian17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post

S
ure enough, and so do I. Anyone who thinks "Bobby Hull was/is a rotten human being"... I'd suggest you read Gare Joyces The Devil & Bobby Hull before casting stones. Very very high likelihood of undiagnosed brain injury, neurological problems, concussions, CTE... And ya, as others have said, if we hold him to
such high standards, better start evictions at the Hockey Hall of Fame as well.
Well said.

Also, I would rather the Jets honor players instead of retiring numbers.

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Old
07-18-2016, 02:35 PM
  #74
MrBoJangelz71
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
Craig MacTavish killed someone while driving drunk in the mid 80s. That is far far worse than anything Bobby Hull did.
While that is disgusting, so is spousal abuse. Both can end in death of another human being, neither should be honored.

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Old
07-18-2016, 02:42 PM
  #75
wpgsilver
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I have not read The Devil and Bobby Hull nor am I qualified to diagnose someone with a traumatic brain injury (I'll leave that to doctors).

I am sympathetic to individuals who do suffer from such diseases. I do not however think it means that any assessment of their conduct, even if attributable to the disease, is beyond comment or condemnation. I'll reiterate that to my knowledge Mr. Hull was never diagnosed with such diseases and though we (general public) may feel we can armchair diagnose such speculation is irresponsible and potentially harmful.

As for the idea that if we condemn Mr. Hull we must condemn others, I say by all means. I, wpgsilver, would not put people who engage in certain behavior on a pedestal. I appreciate that others disagree, that is completely fine. I respect their opinions.
But in 20 years when my kids see "Bobby Hull" in the HoF, and ask me why I'm so high on good character when the opposite doesn't prohibit you from attaining the highest honour a franchise can give, I'll have no qualms telling them that the Jets made a mistake.

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