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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Who retired with less hardware than they probably deserved?

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Old
07-17-2016, 07:07 PM
  #26
Bruce Joker
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There's a lot of people. So I'm assuming this is a shock thread.

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Old
07-17-2016, 07:09 PM
  #27
Bruce Joker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakers View Post
Roberto Luongo

He has no Vezina wins which is shocking considering his 47 win season was insane.

He is also going to finish his career as top 5 in Goaltender wins.
Well that's because he didn't tie the win record. Which is so much better. 1 more win and holtby gets it though

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07-17-2016, 07:09 PM
  #28
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Marcel Dionne, not his fault the teams he played for were mediocre or worse. If Montreal drafted him instead of Lafleur he probably would be celebrated as one of the greatest players of all time

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07-17-2016, 07:24 PM
  #29
Roboturner913
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Rod Brind'Amour.

Should've won at least one more Selke from earlier in his career. He didn't get any recognition until after he won the Cup. He really should've won the Conn Smythe that year too, IMO.

Also Dale Hawerchuk. Pretty amazing career, no awards that I know of.

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07-17-2016, 07:41 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
Rod Brind'Amour.

Should've won at least one more Selke from earlier in his career. He didn't get any recognition until after he won the Cup. He really should've won the Conn Smythe that year too, IMO.

Also Dale Hawerchuk. Pretty amazing career, no awards that I know of.
Dale Hawerchuk won the calder... lol pretty amazing that's all he ever won.

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Old
07-17-2016, 07:45 PM
  #31
ottawa
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Saku Koivu was the first player that came to mind

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07-17-2016, 07:47 PM
  #32
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unless an injury is a total fluke or unrelated to hockey, it's hard to say injuries sustained while playing cause a player to achieve less than they deserved. the injuries are part of their career and when you are a key player you have more opportunity to get injured.

I would say players that actually played the games and played well, but achieved less than they should have due to factors such as team makeup, THAT is when a player actually deserves more.

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Old
07-17-2016, 07:56 PM
  #33
Reverend Mayhem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakers View Post
Roberto Luongo

He has no Vezina wins which is shocking considering his 47 win season was insane.

He is also going to finish his career as top 5 in Goaltender wins.
He got robbed that year. He should have won either the Vezina or the Hart, and got neither.

Finished

2nd in Lindsay voting
2nd in Hart voting
2nd in Vezina voting

if you can believe that.

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Old
07-17-2016, 08:00 PM
  #34
Meichel Kane
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Gotta feel bad for Olaf Kolzig in the Brodeur-Roy-Hasek era.

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Old
07-17-2016, 08:06 PM
  #35
bigbadbruins2011
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I'd like to argue Mark Recchi. He won the Cup multiple times, but was never recognized for his individual talents. Really talented player for a significant amount of time. 7 time all-star but no individual hardware to show for it.

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Old
07-17-2016, 08:16 PM
  #36
hamzarocks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Saku Koivu was the first player that came to mind
huh? Why do you say that. Koivu was never a superstar talent, he wasn't a elite player but rather a good to very good player. His best year was 56 pts in 50 games(by pace) and 75 pts in 81 by total. In those two years lemieux won it with 122 pts and crosby with 120 points. What award could he have won if he played in a different era.

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Old
07-17-2016, 09:10 PM
  #37
Johnny Engine
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No Hart trophies for Syl Apps doesn't strike me as right, and one Hart for Rocket Richard seems even less right.

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Old
07-17-2016, 09:21 PM
  #38
ottawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamzarocks View Post
huh? Why do you say that. Koivu was never a superstar talent, he wasn't a elite player but rather a good to very good player. His best year was 56 pts in 50 games(by pace) and 75 pts in 81 by total. In those two years lemieux won it with 122 pts and crosby with 120 points. What award could he have won if he played in a different era.
I was hoping he'd win a cup with the ducks.

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Old
07-17-2016, 10:03 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenyX View Post
I feel like Niedermayer and Pronger would have won a other Norris or two each if it wasn't for Lidstrom.
In the case of Pronger, it had a lot more to do with injuries from blocked shots than his competition:

2001: 51 GP, 8-39-47, +21
STL w/ Pronger: 34-11-6 (119pt pace)
STL w/o Pronger: 9-11-11 (77pt pace)

2007: 66 GP, 13-46-59, +27
ANA w/ Pronger: 42-13-11 (118pt pace)
ANA w/o Pronger: 6-7-3 (77pt pace)

Those weren't just Norris Trophy seasons; he'd be competing for the Hart Trophy both years. He's a lot better than his trophy case.

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07-17-2016, 11:01 PM
  #40
Dustin
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Bobby Orr easily.

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Old
07-18-2016, 01:46 AM
  #41
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I always felt like Yzerman and Sakic deserved an art ross for two each.


They both won plenty so I suppose they can't complain.

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07-18-2016, 05:59 AM
  #42
Ivanko
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Peter Stastny scored 900 points in his first 600 games and has nothing to show for it but the Calder.

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Old
07-18-2016, 06:57 AM
  #43
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Once again, Roberto Luongo.

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Old
07-18-2016, 08:30 AM
  #44
quoipourquoi
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How about Curtis Joseph, who doesn't even have an unofficial 3rd Team All-Star selection despite having back-to-back top-2 save percentage seasons in 1992 and 1993, being Canada's starting goaltender at two of the three best-on-best tournaments he was invited to, and being primarily responsible for major upsets of both Dallas and Colorado during the late-1990s.

That's a solid 14-year run from him.

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Old
07-18-2016, 08:44 AM
  #45
pappyline
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players that come to mind include Orr, Bobby Hull, Jagr, Rocket Richard, Beliveau

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07-18-2016, 09:22 AM
  #46
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It's difficult to say who deserved more trophies. For instance, Park famously never won a Norris despite many Norris calibre seasons, but there isn't any given year when he deserved to win but didn't. I would say that he was unlucky, but didn't deserve more. Likewise, without injuries players like Crosby/Forsberg/Pronger win more trophies, but I can't really say that they deserved trophies that they were injured for. They are better than their trophy cases indicate though.

Orr has been mentioned, and I do think that he lost out on some Hart trophies that should have been his. Denis Potvin is another. He should have the 1981 Conn Smythe and Norris trophies. Mark Howe should have Langway's first Norris. Bourque likely deserved the Hart, and it seemed like he finished second in Norris voting whenever it was close and could conceivably have more Norris trophies. Similar case can be made wit Jagr and the Hart.

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Old
07-18-2016, 12:08 PM
  #47
Joedaman55
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Pronger and Luongo are the first names that came to mind. I would probably put Chelios up there too.

Edit: Shea Weber is a more recent name.

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Old
07-18-2016, 12:44 PM
  #48
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Denis Savard is another guy who comes to mind. He put up some truly monster numbers for 7-8 years in a row to start his career. I think 3 seasons of 85+ assists.

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Old
07-18-2016, 01:07 PM
  #49
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Rocket Richard--Only one Hart Trophy. That always blows me away, but it's all due to era. There just weren't the trophies that there are now. Anti-Francophone bias and how the Hart was viewed then probably cost Richard two more: Richard finished 2nd & then 3rd when the Hart went to players on losing teams that missed the playoffs. That'd NEVER happen today. Also lack of hardware for goal-scoring (the trophy that obviously bears his name) & for playoff MVP in his era denied him of trophies for what he is best known for. Suspension cost him his only chance at the Art Ross.

Denis Potvin--1981 should've taken home both the Norris and the Conn Smythe. Randy Carlyle, SMH.

Guy Carbonneau--a minor quibble perhaps, but Rick Meagher over Carbonneau in '90 always sticks in my craw. Carbonneau would've matched Gainey for most Selke's in a career if he'd won, as he should have.

Esa Tikkanen--Speaking of Selkes. Got hosed in '91 & '95.

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Old
07-18-2016, 01:26 PM
  #50
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Hawerchuk and Dionne.

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