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01-12-2006, 07:46 AM
  #1
bb74
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Trade Inquiry - BOS - DET

I know the owners hate oneanother and there's bad blood out there but in this business why not?

B's are gonna tank as per most expectations and the Wings have a chance to make a run but need more secndary scoring and D to go deep.

I'd like to get some thoughts on the "value for value" aspect of a deal like this:

To DET : Murray + Tanabe
To BOS : Kindl + McGrath + some overpaid underperformers..

Murray is expensive at 4M but he still has his shot and could excel with either Zetterberg or Dats. Tanabe is a good #5 for pretty cheap and you have the option of re-upping him for next season at a little over $1M. I see Mcgrath as a big project and Kindl as a surefire top 5 in 2-3 years time.

Detroit gets MUCH better for the run and you get at least 24 months out of Tanabe who can skate, pass, and play the PP & PK. He's not physical but he can play better than Lilja, that's for sure!

Any thoughts?

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01-12-2006, 08:18 AM
  #2
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You cats need a centerman? You can take Lang...Murray would be better suited to play Lang's current role on the wing with Shanahan and Datsyuk. I don't know about how to mix in some prospects but I don't think we'd want to trade Kindl right now. We have no need for Tanabe...Lebda is probably better than him at this point and Kronwall will be back soon.

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01-12-2006, 08:26 AM
  #3
sarcastro
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I would not do that deal. It wouldn't even be close, in my opinion. Kindl is the Wings' only D prospect with a chance to be a star. McGrath is lighting up the OHL and could be a #1 center in 2-3 years. Tanabe has been kicked around enough for me to believe he's not very good, and either way, the Wings have a lot of #5 defensemen, they just don't have any #3 defensemen. So he wouldn't help anyway. And according to articles I've read, Murray is having a hard time keeping up in the new NHL because he's not physical and he doesn't skate very well. In Detroit we already have one Robert Lang, and that's at least enough.

The guys the Wings would be after, if I were the GM anyway, would be Samsonov and Boynton. The following guys would be available in a trade: Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom, Lang, Osgood, Detroit's 3rd-7th rounders. Prospects I would consider dealing would be Meech, Kopecky, Hudler, Liv, Blatak, Bootland, Haskins and Oulahen. If none of this would be acceptable for Boynton and/or Samsonov, then we wouldn't be able to deal.

This is what I would propose:

To Boston:
Hudler
Meech

To Detroit:
Boynton
4th rounder

Boston gets a young playmaker to replace Samsonov, who is leaving at the end of the year anyway. They also get Meech, who has a lot of offensive upside and has been playing more physical hockey this year in GR.

Detroit gets the 2nd pair defenseman they need with Fischer out, and Hakan gets another 4th rounder to spend on his Swedish project du jour.

It's not easy to give up Hudler but if the Wings can get Boynton and lock him up, the deal would be worth it.

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01-12-2006, 10:45 AM
  #4
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Hudler & Meech for a #2D RFA going into his prime & a 4th? That's not very even from my perspective - no offense intended...

Murray is a 30+ goal guy and although there are more than a few out there, he's far from done - just too pricey for a team rebuilding (see B's). McGrath is a big questionmark right now and Kindl is supposedly the real deal. B's need both D & forwards so there may be another way to swing it....

Murray + Boynton
for
Kindl + McGrath + 3rd?

I feel the B's are paying thru the nose and would prefer the original deal but this could be more realistic. ?

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01-12-2006, 10:54 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74
Hudler & Meech for a #2D RFA going into his prime & a 4th? That's not very even from my perspective - no offense intended...

Murray is a 30+ goal guy and although there are more than a few out there, he's far from done - just too pricey for a team rebuilding (see B's). McGrath is a big questionmark right now and Kindl is supposedly the real deal. B's need both D & forwards so there may be another way to swing it....

Murray + Boynton
for
Kindl + McGrath + 3rd?

I feel the B's are paying thru the nose and would prefer the original deal but this could be more realistic. ?
Not a chance for two reasons.

Kindl and McGrath, though uncertain, have potential that goes through the roof. Kindl especially.

Secondly Kindl, McGrath, and a pick = nothing in terms of cap impact. Murray + Boynton a whole hell of a lot. It just isn't possible.

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01-12-2006, 10:58 AM
  #6
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I agree with the other guys here that Kindl will not be dealt. I saw the kid play here against the Plymouth Whalers and he is the real deal. Great size, skates well, and he can really rip it from the blue line- perfect for the new NHL.

 
Old
01-12-2006, 11:22 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74
Hudler & Meech for a #2D RFA going into his prime & a 4th? That's not very even from my perspective - no offense intended...

Murray is a 30+ goal guy and although there are more than a few out there, he's far from done - just too pricey for a team rebuilding (see B's). McGrath is a big questionmark right now and Kindl is supposedly the real deal. B's need both D & forwards so there may be another way to swing it....

Murray + Boynton
for
Kindl + McGrath + 3rd?

I feel the B's are paying thru the nose and would prefer the original deal but this could be more realistic. ?
It seems like the Wings are getting the better end, which they probably are. But this was my logic in making that proposal:

1. The B's gave away Thornton for less than they could have gotten elsewhere. Other teams offered better packages and they chose the Sharks. Who knows what kind of deal they might make.

2. Boynton hates the Bruins and wants out ASAP. He is sick of their negotiating tactics and will bolt for nothing if they don't trade him.

3. The B's don't want Murray because he has tailed off this year and doesn't look like a 30 goal guy anymore. He also has a big contract. Why would the Wings want him, and if they did, why would they give up two of their best prospects to get him when the B's would probably settle for much less to get him off their books?

Maybe something along these lines:

To Boston:
Lang
Hudler
McGrath
3rd rounder

To Detroit:
Samsonov
Boynton

This deal seems to favor the Bs, because even though they get players that are better now, the Wings could lose both Samsonov and Boynton as UFAs at the cost of a productive center and 2 of their top 5 prospects. On the other hand, the Wings have a lot of forward prospects and plenty of centers on their roster so they could probably afford to make this move.

IMO this would be like the Bs signing Lang Hudler and McGrath and getting an extra 3rd rounder this offseason, because they don't have a contending team now and both the guys they'd be trading are going to be elsewhere next year. The Wings would lose this trade unless they won the cup this year and/or locked one or both of their new players up long-term.

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01-12-2006, 11:58 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
Maybe something along these lines:

To Boston:
Lang
Hudler
McGrath
3rd rounder

To Detroit:
Samsonov
Boynton
I think that's a reasonable deal and I'd do it. From the Wings perspective it fills two needs and gets rid of a problem (too many top centers), but it is a fairly steep price to pay. The B's could certainly win this trade in the long run. But this may be our last shot at the cup with some of our older core guys, so I'd make the trade.

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Old
01-12-2006, 12:06 PM
  #9
norrisnick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack
I think that's a reasonable deal and I'd do it. From the Wings perspective it fills two needs and gets rid of a problem (too many top centers), but it is a fairly steep price to pay. The B's could certainly win this trade in the long run. But this may be our last shot at the cup with some of our older core guys, so I'd make the trade.
Gross overpayment for two guys the Bruins lose anyway.

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Old
01-12-2006, 12:10 PM
  #10
sarcastro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Gross overpayment for two guys the Bruins lose anyway.
But the Wings would get first crack at re-signing them. Boynton would be a big help this year and beyond if they could sign him, and Samsonov would give them a sniper to play on Shanny's other wing. Samsonov played in Detroit before and Boynton is just looking for a fair deal, so I think the Wings would have a good shot at keeping them.

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01-12-2006, 12:24 PM
  #11
norrisnick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
But the Wings would get first crack at re-signing them. Boynton would be a big help this year and beyond if they could sign him, and Samsonov would give them a sniper to play on Shanny's other wing. Samsonov played in Detroit before and Boynton is just looking for a fair deal, so I think the Wings would have a good shot at keeping them.
So sign them in the offseason. If you don't want to keep the guys (particularly the young ones) in the trade we can get better return than guys we could sign in the summer anyway.

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Old
01-12-2006, 12:42 PM
  #12
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Boynts is a RFA

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Old
01-12-2006, 12:48 PM
  #13
norrisnick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74
Boynts is a RFA
So sign him the summer after. He's good but not worth Lang and a gaggle of prospects and picks. Samsonov is not worth trading for for our Cup run IMO. May just as well hang on to Lang.

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01-12-2006, 01:24 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Gross overpayment for two guys the Bruins lose anyway.
I give up nick. I cant figure you out. You dont want this deal for the reason I quoted above. But trading Lang and a pick (and I think you mentioned Williams too) to Washington for 2 UFA's (Friesen and Witt) that the Caps will "lose anyway" is something you would do?

My white flag is up. I just cant figure you out.

p.s. - what kind of car is that in your avatar? looks pretty sweet.

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01-12-2006, 01:40 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
I give up nick. I cant figure you out. You dont want this deal for the reason I quoted above. But trading Lang and a pick (and I think you mentioned Williams too) to Washington for 2 UFA's (Friesen and Witt) that the Caps will "lose anyway" is something you would do?

My white flag is up. I just cant figure you out.

p.s. - what kind of car is that in your avatar? looks pretty sweet.
Actually I stated that I wouldn't do the Lang, Will, Pick trade. I'm not too keen on Friesen (now that he's completely flopped this year). I only chimed in that I'd rather move Will than Cleary. Odd I know but IMO Cleary helps us win more than Will does. Less valuable, but more important. Weird that.



The new Dodge Challenger Concept.

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01-12-2006, 02:57 PM
  #16
sarcastro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
So sign him the summer after. He's good but not worth Lang and a gaggle of prospects and picks. Samsonov is not worth trading for for our Cup run IMO. May just as well hang on to Lang.
If they're on the UFA market the Wings won't get them.

Boynton is an RFA but he wants out of Boston. He will probably be elsewhere next season because he almost didn't play this year due to contract squabbles. And we know that Boston never pays their young FAs - except for Thornton, and they got rid of him 6 months later.

This isn't really about the Cup run for me, though I think Boynton would really help the Wings' D situation. Think of a Wings D that looks like this -
Lidstrom-Kronwall
Schneider-Boynton
Chelios-Lebda/Lilja/Woolley
Much improved over what we have now. And Lang has contributed nothing lately so Samsonov would at least be a push. Plus it would let Z stay at center. Imagine a Shanahan-Zetterberg-Samsonov line. Or a Samsonov-Zetterberg-Samuelsson/Williams line followed up with a Shanahan-Datsyuk-Samuelsson/Williams line. Very potent.

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01-12-2006, 02:59 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74
I know the owners hate oneanother and there's bad blood out there but in this business why not?

B's are gonna tank as per most expectations and the Wings have a chance to make a run but need more secndary scoring and D to go deep.

I'd like to get some thoughts on the "value for value" aspect of a deal like this:

To DET : Murray + Tanabe
To BOS : Kindl + McGrath + some overpaid underperformers..

Murray is expensive at 4M but he still has his shot and could excel with either Zetterberg or Dats. Tanabe is a good #5 for pretty cheap and you have the option of re-upping him for next season at a little over $1M. I see Mcgrath as a big project and Kindl as a surefire top 5 in 2-3 years time.

Detroit gets MUCH better for the run and you get at least 24 months out of Tanabe who can skate, pass, and play the PP & PK. He's not physical but he can play better than Lilja, that's for sure!

Any thoughts?
Too much to give up for Detroit. Doesn't Murray have more than one year remaining? Lang only has one year left. This trade looks way too expensive.

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01-12-2006, 03:19 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74
Murray + Boynton
for
Kindl + McGrath + 3rd?

I feel the B's are paying thru the nose and would prefer the original deal but this could be more realistic. ?
Do you think?

Detroit couldn't make that deal under the cap, but obviously it's incredibly lobsided in Detroit's favor.

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01-12-2006, 11:23 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick



The new Dodge Challenger Concept.
Wow...looks great. I love all the cars that Dodge is putting out these days. They all look great.

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01-13-2006, 02:36 AM
  #20
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Not terribly interested in Murray who's contract is the main issue. $4 million for 3 more years after this one? ( i think). don't like it.

Plus you have to factor in Detroit can't take on that much salary. Wings are pretty much at the cap limit right now. And the only under-achiever who could be moved and create tons of cap room is Lang.

Put it this way. If you had a deal centering around Murray and Lang, I would want something more from Boston. No, not Boynton but a blue chip prospect. Why? Because of contract status. Lang only has one year left while Murray has 2 or 3.

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01-13-2006, 06:43 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro
Maybe something along these lines:

To Boston:
Lang
Hudler
McGrath
3rd rounder

To Detroit:
Samsonov
Boynton
I would do it - just to get rid of Lang's next year contract.

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01-13-2006, 01:25 PM
  #22
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I don't like it...I have a feeling that if we traded for Murray and/or Samsonov, they'd bail on us and we'd be stuck with the short end of the stick. I realize Samsonov would love to play here (I guess his wife is from Detroit), but something tells me we'd end up on the losing end of this. So I say no.

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01-13-2006, 01:31 PM
  #23
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Not to mention both Boynton (26) and Sammy (27) are still relatively young. The Wings would also have a pretty decent chance ore resigning them both. The major problem for the Wings is that besides Dats they don't have a lot of mid age players, which is what they will need to remain competetive after the vets leave. Sammy isn't super physical but he makes up for that with speed. Something the Wings lack on the top lines. Wings only have Lebda and to some extent Draper that have insane speed. Salary would prob be ok to as it'd be in the 4.5 range, which the Wings could probably manage. Lang makes 3.8. I'm not exactly sure about the Wings cap situation, but I think they could handle the .7 mil.

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Old
01-13-2006, 03:34 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kira
I don't like it...I have a feeling that if we traded for Murray and/or Samsonov, they'd bail on us and we'd be stuck with the short end of the stick. I realize Samsonov would love to play here (I guess his wife is from Detroit), but something tells me we'd end up on the losing end of this. So I say no.

I'm not so sure they'd want to bail so easily. The Wings organization is considered first class in the league, and players will not find another owner that is more committed to winning. If they want to be on a contender, they get that here along with Original 6 traditions and strength/stability.

Finally compared to Jacobs and Bruins, what player in his right mind wouldn't find Ilitch and Wings to be Nirvana after that? From all accounts, the guys like the way they get treated in Detroit.

 
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