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We need to rebuild...

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Old
01-12-2006, 11:42 AM
  #1
Mats26
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We need to rebuild...

Nobody on this board thought we can win it all this year, (sorry for the disillusioned ones)so why not do a fire sale, get rid of old overpriced vets for picks and let the young players develop, maybe even get some high picks in the draft if we finish in the bottom of the league and for the vets we got rid of. With the freed up salary cap room in the summer we can add a #1 and #2 D , 1 solid power forward. Maybe even enough $$ for Luongo. Everyone we add to the team will need to be big aggressive tough with speed and show signs of leadership. If we do this we will be back on track, right now we are just spinning our wheels.

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01-12-2006, 11:44 AM
  #2
AH
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Well, kinda. We need to change our "Veteran core".

These are the guys that have been on the team for at least three years and constitute the team's "veteran core" or "young veterans" that we have heard of in the past from management. Since we really dont have any old veterans and since it's still too early to assess recent acquisitions like Bonk, kovy, and Dandy, these are the guys that should be leading the team.

Koivu
Zednik
Bulis
Sunny (he is coming up to 3 years)
Rivet
Markov
Theodore
Souray

It's quite apparent to me that these guys as a group are taking us nowhere. Only one of them is a real keeper (Markov). The rest, although none are bad players, are they really the answer to take the team to the next level? That next level being a consistent playoff team. Contendership is in another realm right now.

The one thing that sticks out at me when looking at that group is that only ONE guy in that group can be considered an all-star this season at their respective position (Markov). The reat are average to good players.

How unimpressive is that?

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Old
01-12-2006, 11:53 AM
  #3
Matrix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AH
Well, kinda. We need to change our "Veteran core".

These are the guys that have been on the team for at least three years and constitute the team's "veteran core" or "young veterans" that we have heard of in the past from management. Since we really dont have any old veterans and since it's still too early to assess recent acquisitions like Bonk, kovy, and Dandy, these are the guys that should be leading the team.

Koivu
Zednik
Bulis
Sunny (he is coming up to 3 years)
Rivet
Markov
Theodore
Souray

It's quite apparent to me that these guys as a group are taking us nowhere. Only one of them is a real keeper (Markov). The rest, although none are bad players, are they really the answer to take the team to the next level? That next level being a consistent playoff team. Contendership is in another realm right now.

The one thing that sticks out at me when looking at that group is that only ONE guy in that group can be considered an all-star this season at their respective position (Markov). The reat are average to good players.

How unimpressive is that?
While I agree with some of the names I obviously not agree with the others.

Markov is a keeper, I agree. And then you need players like Rivet and Souray on your team, players that can play physical and are, most of the time, not defensive liability. If you need those players, why trade to get some when you have it already. Though for the right trade, they still can be expendable but I wouldn't look hard just to get them out of here.

As far as Koivu and Bulis are concerned, when you use them properly, I don't see a problem with them. I always thought that Koivu was an excellent 2nd line center on an excellent team. Obviously we're not excellent so he has to play the role of the 1st center and he's good in that role but with the frame that he has you can't expect him to carry this team on his shoulder. He has the heart and work ethic you look for, why trade him when you're looking for the same qualities in a trade. As as Bulis, well he's a pretty good PK'er plus he could play an interesting role as a 2nd line center or not in the 3rd in Bonk's place. I find center is more easy for him, that's where he should be. And if he bangs a little more like he did with Breezer, well he's a keeper.

The others and I include Dandenault, ship'em as far as you can....

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Old
01-12-2006, 12:01 PM
  #4
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My whole post is based on the premise of leaving aside the recent acquisitions. When looking at the longer term vets, it's getting kinda stale with a more than few.

Yes, Souray and Rivet are guys you need as a team, but the core hasn't taken us anywhere so it's time to change it up.

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Old
01-12-2006, 12:06 PM
  #5
Guy Caballero
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The "veteran core" will work itself out in time as those players are replaced by the kids. There's no need for a major changing of the guard. It's already happening, with Plekanec, Higgins, Perez, and Kostitsyn gradually working their way into the lineup and Ryder firmly established. What we need is for one of those guys to step up and become an elite player, like Zetterberg and Datsyuk did in Detroit or like Gagne did in Philly. That's the only way we're going to take the next step.

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Old
01-12-2006, 12:08 PM
  #6
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We need to rebuild...















not again

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Old
01-12-2006, 12:52 PM
  #7
Quagmier
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???? - Koivu - Kovalev
Ryder - ???? - ????(Kost/Perez maybe)
Bulis - Higgins - ????
Murray - Begin - ????

Markov - ????
???? - Rivet
Komisarek - ????
Bouillon

????
Huet

Those to me are all the guys that should stay or that would be part of a winning team. as you can see we dont have too much in the way of top end talent. Guys like Zednik, Ribeiro, Souray and Theo were all supposed to be part of the core but have not played up to standards.

Hopefully, Gainey will address some of these needs through trades before the end of the season, while not sacrificing too many of the players i mentioned at the top and keep some room for dealing under the cap.

thats alot of ifs


Last edited by Quagmier: 01-12-2006 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Post 666!!!
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Old
01-12-2006, 12:57 PM
  #8
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we've been rebuilding for 10 years!!!!!!!!!!!! argh...

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:15 PM
  #9
Ross MacLochness
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We need a complete change in philosophy. Our "core" has changed over the years but what hasn't is our style of play, rookie coaches and sub-par defence.

We have 4 #5-6 defencemen (Streit, Boullion, Dandenault, Komisarek- 2 of those being borderline NHLers if you ask me)
We have 2 #4 defencemen (Souray, Rivet)
We have a #1b defenceman (Markov)

Yeah, go ahead and play a conservative, 1-2-2, zone style defence that allows other forwards to agressivley attack a defence like that and free wheel around our own zone. Hmm, I wonder why it isn't working out.

We desperatley need another top flight defence man and a quality #2-3 guy who can play an all-around game (play in all zones, PK, PP)

Our forwards are playing too low in our own zone. Not forechecking enough. 3rd and 4th lines are way too soft. We need way more jam and scoring from the 2nd and 3rd lines. No leadership after Koivu.

On the PK, there should always, ALWAYS, be one forward skating AT the puckcarrier in the neutral zone. Pressure them into making a descision, if they pass it off, the other forward rotates and pressures the new puck carrier. Having 2 forwards skating backwards (basically standing still) in the neutral zone waving their sticks around does nothing and should never happen.

To sum up, this team is a mess.

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:22 PM
  #10
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I disagree.

I think we need to give the younger guys like higgins, Perezhogin, Pleks, Kostitsyn, Chip, etc more time to develope. People seem to forget these are the guys we are rebuilding with, and most if not all of them are in their first year of pro nhl hockey.

If thier is a major problem with this team, it our D- core. We need to improve in that area, but that is much easier said then done. Just ask about 10 other teams in the league.

Patience, people, patience.

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:25 PM
  #11
HankyZetts
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Bertuzzi - Koivu - Kovalev
Bell - Bulis - Plekanec
Higgins - Bonk - Sundstrom
Murray - Begin - Ryder
Kostitsyn

Markov - Jovo
Rivet - Bouillon
Komisarek - Babchuk
Streit

Huet
Danis


Theodore, Zednik, Souray, pick
for
Bertuzzi, Jovo

Ribeiro, Dandenault, Perez, pick
for
Bell, Babchuk, lower pick

Might be stupid but wtv, i like the lineup...im open for criticism...lol

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:27 PM
  #12
CH74
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We don't need to rebuild, we need to PANIC!!!!!!

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:29 PM
  #13
Mooch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH74
We don't need to rebuild, we need to PANIC!!!!!!
which often leads to a firesale, and re-building..........

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:33 PM
  #14
Bronn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Namso
we've been rebuilding for 10 years!!!!!!!!!!!! argh...
Exactly.........

Also :

Fire sale/rebuilding = no playoffs = no playoffs $$$ = angry George Gillette.

Both Gainey and Boivin said at the start of the season that they are building a team to win NOW and to make the playoffs.Rebuilding would be the complete opposite of what they promised to the fans back then and would be a disappointment to many.That's why i think that the management is not in the mood to rebuild from scratch (at least not this season) and personally im not either.

I expect a major trade involving veterans before a rebuilding process.

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:34 PM
  #15
Stone Cutter
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not again....

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:38 PM
  #16
Shabutie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi2teD
Bertuzzi - Koivu - Kovalev
Bell - Bulis - Plekanec
Higgins - Bonk - Sundstrom
Murray - Begin - Ryder
Kostitsyn

Markov - Jovo
Rivet - Bouillon
Komisarek - Babchuk
Streit

Huet
Danis


Theodore, Zednik, Souray, pick
for
Bertuzzi, Jovo

Ribeiro, Dandenault, Perez, pick
for
Bell, Babchuk, lower pick

Might be stupid but wtv, i like the lineup...im open for criticism...lol
No way would Pleks replace Ryder on the second line. I would like a line of Bell - Bulis - Ryder. Imo, it would be our most intense line. As for the vancouver trade, that won't happen. No way would they give away their number one D-man and one of the best powerforwards of the league (although he isn't having an amazing season) only to get an overpaid goalie, a very mediocre second liner and a 2-3rd dman. I wouldn't mind trading Theo + Zednik for Bertz and Carter, though.

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:45 PM
  #17
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Koivu should be included in the group of players to get rid of ,he's always injured never plays 84 games in a season and what is is highest point total this year thirty something points wow wouldn't want to lose that.

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:48 PM
  #18
HankyZetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugs44
Koivu should be included in the group of players to get rid of ,he's always injured never plays 84 games in a season and what is is highest point total this year thirty something points wow wouldn't want to lose that.
ummm...84 games???
koivu is our leader..

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:51 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugs44
Koivu should be included in the group of players to get rid of ,he's always injured never plays 84 games in a season and what is is highest point total this year thirty something points wow wouldn't want to lose that.
That could be because they're only 82 games in a season. Don't let that put your hamster wheel off-track or anything.

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:52 PM
  #20
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sad but true, i'm usually more on the optimistic side but i don't see us making the playoffs this year anyway so why not shake things up and let the rookies play

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:55 PM
  #21
alexstream
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Silly loser attitude

Instead of destroying to rebuild...
why not renovate what is already good?

There are lots of good elements, ONE MORE TOP BLUE LINER would dramatically reduce the pressure and the workload on Markov, Souray and Rivet's (and bouillon) shoulders.

Bulis, Kovalev, Begin, Kostytsyn, Koivu, etc etc are very good up front working hard etc.
ADD 1 big guy on the backrows (to help Begin out in the tough game)
REPLACE Ribs (who brings NOTHING to this team)
and we have a more energic offense.

Did you notice that everytime Ribs' line was on the ice we were losing some momentum?! he can't keep the puck, can't shoot, can't skate, can't hit... :puke:

JUST 2-3 things and CJ has something to work with... now don't assume that it'll change everything, the team will play with more energy, etc.. but CJ is too defensive for that new league (look at yesterday's game, we were overloaded)

so after we see that these changes don't help us win games. CJ will get the boot.

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Old
01-12-2006, 01:56 PM
  #22
HankyZetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie
No way would Pleks replace Ryder on the second line. I would like a line of Bell - Bulis - Ryder. Imo, it would be our most intense line. As for the vancouver trade, that won't happen. No way would they give away their number one D-man and one of the best powerforwards of the league (although he isn't having an amazing season) only to get an overpaid goalie, a very mediocre second liner and a 2-3rd dman. I wouldn't mind trading Theo + Zednik for Bertz and Carter, though.
i forgot to change ryder back to the second push the other right wingers down

in the theo trade what about ohlund instead?? and leave out the pick>?

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Old
01-12-2006, 02:00 PM
  #23
Shabutie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi2teD
i forgot to change ryder back to the second push the other right wingers down

in the theo trade what about ohlund instead?? and leave out the pick>?
I think we could get Ohlund, But then I'd rather have a trade of Theo, Zednik + Dandenault.

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Old
01-12-2006, 02:04 PM
  #24
HankyZetts
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ya that does look alot better

Markov - Rivet
Ohlund - Souray
Komo - Babchuk
Bouillon

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Old
01-12-2006, 02:13 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi2teD
ya that does look alot better

Markov - Rivet
Ohlund - Souray
Komo - Babchuk
Bouillon
Geez. You guys need to calm down. First of all, Ohlund is to Vancouver as Markov is to Montreal. In other words, he's not going anywhere. Secondly, you can't just start switching defensemen sides at your own free-will. And lastly, we need help on the right-side more-so than on the left.

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