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Hey JT...why don't you start a thread about Cammalleri?

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12-30-2005, 06:13 PM
  #1
Albi
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Hey JT...why don't you start a thread about Cammalleri?

Am I wrong, or is he proving where he belongs?

Greetings,

Albi

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12-30-2005, 06:53 PM
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Boy, you're cruel, Albi

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12-30-2005, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Osprey
Boy, you're cruel, Albi
Nah...I simply enjoy his posts.
And I can't wait for this one.

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12-30-2005, 08:06 PM
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Hey Albi, you've been quiet for awhile, good to see you back.

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12-30-2005, 08:29 PM
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Why was JT always down on Cammalleri?? Did he know certain things about him, that we didn't?

By the way, Cammalleri is far from being a "top 6'er" he'll have to prove it over time. But i think is capable of doing it, but isn't great to see Top 6 homegrown talent on the team? And many other coming up the ranks, man i cant help but look forward to the next couple of years and watching all them play wearing OUR sweaters!!!

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12-30-2005, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie562
Why was JT always down on Cammalleri??
jt seemed to have the idea that Cammalleri was a selfish player who refused to listen to the coach and who sulked when he didn't get what he wanted. I think that it was King Blazer who rather successfully disproved that he was like that in Manchester and Cammalleri, himself, has rather successfully disproved that he's like that now with his play this season. In his defense, though he was pretty unfair to Cammalleri, I think that jt's position was born more from being a hard-line defender of Andy Murray (and his apparent dislike and benching of Cammalleri) rather than having anything really against Mike as a person. I could be wrong, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on it. Anyways, Cammalleri is proving a lot of people off-base (including AM), IMO.

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12-30-2005, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
jt seemed to have the idea that Cammalleri was a selfish player who refused to listen to the coach and who sulked when he didn't get what he wanted. I think that it was King Blazer who rather successfully disproved that he was like that in Manchester and Cammalleri, himself, has rather successfully disproved that he's like that now with his play this season. In his defense, though he was pretty unfair to Cammalleri, I think that jt's position was born more from being a hard-line defender of Andy Murray (and his apparent dislike and benching of Cammalleri) rather than having anything really against Mike as a person. I could be wrong, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on it. Anyways, Cammalleri is proving a lot of people off-base (including AM), IMO.
I have been a huge Cammalleri supporter and I like AM as a coach also and I have to say that even though AM makes decisions regarding Camms that I disagree with, I think it is helping Camms become a better player now and for the long run.

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12-30-2005, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
jt seemed to have the idea that Cammalleri was a selfish player who refused to listen to the coach and who sulked when he didn't get what he wanted. I think that it was King Blazer who rather successfully disproved that he was like that in Manchester and Cammalleri, himself, has rather successfully disproved that he's like that now with his play this season. In his defense, though he was pretty unfair to Cammalleri, I think that jt's position was born more from being a hard-line defender of Andy Murray (and his apparent dislike and benching of Cammalleri) rather than having anything really against Mike as a person. I could be wrong, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on it. Anyways, Cammalleri is proving a lot of people off-base (including AM), IMO.
One could easily also ascertain that Cammalleri's eventual conformance to and acceptance of AM's system is what's contributing to his success now.

- T

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12-30-2005, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TonySCV
One could easily also ascertain that Cammalleri's eventual conformance to and acceptance of AM's system is what's contributing to his success now.
I don't buy that for a second, but, unless someone wants to make an issue out of it, I'll save that for another time.

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12-30-2005, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
jt seemed to have the idea that Cammalleri was a selfish player who refused to listen to the coach and who sulked when he didn't get what he wanted. I think that it was King Blazer who rather successfully disproved that he was like that in Manchester and Cammalleri, himself, has rather successfully disproved that he's like that now with his play this season. In his defense, though he was pretty unfair to Cammalleri, I think that jt's position was born more from being a hard-line defender of Andy Murray (and his apparent dislike and benching of Cammalleri) rather than having anything really against Mike as a person. I could be wrong, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on it. Anyways, Cammalleri is proving a lot of people off-base (including AM), IMO.
While jt has proven he's more than capable of defending himself, I feel I should step in and toss in what I recall with my conversations with jt. The dislike jt had of Cammalleri stems from jt having friends who either went to Michigan while Cammalleri was there, or followed him very closely while he was there. Cammalleri seemed to have an attitude problem where he didn't listen to the coach.

As a result, he always figured that AM benching Cammalleri was because of some type of attitude he had. I'm sure jt would just love to be wrong about Cammalleri, but he wants to make sure the guy will listen to the coach first.

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12-30-2005, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
I don't buy that for a second, but, unless someone wants to make an issue out of it, I'll save that for another time.
What's not to buy? If we weren't conforming and weren't accepting - he wouldn't be playing or getting the ice time he's been getting from AM.

After struggling initially, he's found a role and a style of play he can enjoy some success with in the NHL. To imply that coaching and mentoring had nothing to do with that would be foolish.

- T

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12-30-2005, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn
The dislike jt had of Cammalleri stems from jt having friends who either went to Michigan while Cammalleri was there, or followed him very closely while he was there. Cammalleri seemed to have an attitude problem where he didn't listen to the coach.
That was a long time ago and, as I did mention, I feel that King Blazer made a convincing case that Cammalleri wasn't that way the last couple of years in Manchester.

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12-30-2005, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TonySCV
After struggling initially, he's found a role and a style of play he can enjoy some success with in the NHL. To imply that coaching and mentoring had nothing to do with that would be foolish.
The "role and style of play" that Mike is enjoying success with is no different than the role and style that he's always had. He "struggled initially" because Andy tried to change him by demanding that he check and grind. Remember how Mike was throwing the body and living in the corners in October and how AM was so happy with him (despite zero even-strength production)? Notice that Cammalleri has done very little of that recently and, yet, he has 7 goals in the last 7 games. He's playing his game--the game he's always played and is comfortable with--and is being successful at it; what a surprise.


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12-30-2005, 11:14 PM
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Taunting jt to post?

Wouldn't it be easier playing with a rattlesnake if you just want to stir the poop?

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12-30-2005, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
The "role and style of play" that Mike is enjoying success with is no different than the role and style that he's always had. He "struggled initially" because Andy tried to change him by demanding that he check and grind. Remember how Mike was throwing the body and living in the corners in October and how AM was so happy with him (despite zero even-strength production)? Notice that Cammalleri has done very little of that recently and, yet, he has 7 goals in the last 7 games. He's playing his game--the game he's always played and is comfortable with--and is being successful at it; what a surprise.
Mike's playing within AM's system. It's the same system that he struggled in initially, and has now adapted to and found success in. Same system. Same coach. Same Cammalleri. Both AM and Mike have a hand in the success that the team and Mike individually are now enjoying.

I'm all for giving AM hell when he deserves it, but to imply that AM has given up and is now allowing Cammalleri to have free reign is swinging the pendulum way too far to one side. They've both adapted and found a mix that works.

You HAVE to give AM just as much credit for allowing Mike to find his groove as you give credit to Mike for thriving in a system he struggled in initially.

- T

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12-30-2005, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP
Taunting jt to post?

Wouldn't it be easier playing with a rattlesnake if you just want to stir the poop?
Hey... it got you out of bed .

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12-30-2005, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV
Mike's playing within AM's system. It's the same system that he struggled in initially, and has now adapted to and found success in. Same system. Same coach. Same Cammalleri. Both AM and Mike have a hand in the success that the team and Mike individually are now enjoying.

I'm all for giving AM hell when he deserves it, but to imply that AM has given up and is now allowing Cammalleri to have free reign is swinging the pendulum way too far to one side. They've both adapted and found a mix that works.

You HAVE to give AM just as much credit for allowing Mike to find his groove as you give credit to Mike for thriving in a system he struggled in initially.

- T
I've been following you & Osprey going back & forth on Cammy/AM. I have to agree that there's no way in hell AM would give Cammy "free reign". Cammy's found a way to thrive in AM's system. Credit is due on both sides.

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12-30-2005, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV
Hey... it got you out of bed .
I was out of bed - stirring the poop someplace else

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12-31-2005, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP
I was out of bed - stirring the poop someplace else
that has (so far) been quite the poop!

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12-31-2005, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
jt seemed to have the idea that Cammalleri was a selfish player who refused to listen to the coach and who sulked when he didn't get what he wanted. I think that it was King Blazer who rather successfully disproved that he was like that in Manchester and Cammalleri, himself, has rather successfully disproved that he's like that now with his play this season. In his defense, though he was pretty unfair to Cammalleri, I think that jt's position was born more from being a hard-line defender of Andy Murray (and his apparent dislike and benching of Cammalleri) rather than having anything really against Mike as a person. I could be wrong, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on it. Anyways, Cammalleri is proving a lot of people off-base (including AM), IMO.
I don't know about all that, but Cammy was always very arrogant and cocky on the ice and never backed it up in practice. That is what supposedly was rubbing the coaches the wrong way. That had a lot to do with why he was always begging for ice time - because he was trying to be taught that you need to earn it in practice.

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12-31-2005, 01:18 AM
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Hey cool! My very own "call out" thread!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albi
Am I wrong, or is he proving where he belongs?

Greetings,

Albi
You have great timing. I've been busy as hell for a while now and haven't even been reading the site(s) much lately. But I sat down tonite and was thinking about starting a "Damn that Cammy's playing well." thread. You did for me here so I'll have to start one at the other site.

He is in the process of proving EXACTLY what I hoped he would prove: that he isn't a career 4th liner. He has yet to prove that he belongs in the top 6 and I'll get to that a little later in this post. But suffice to say that 38 games does not a career make. Why? Because he's 5'7", has a history of injuries when playing against the big boys in the NHL and I'm still not convinced that the "new" NHL will continue as is, rather than return to the brutal days when most munchkins just couldn't compete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingz4life
I have been a huge Cammalleri supporter and I like AM as a coach also and I have to say that even though AM makes decisions regarding Camms that I disagree with, I think it is helping Camms become a better player now and for the long run.
I agree wholeheartedly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
I don't buy that for a second, but, unless someone wants to make an issue out of it, I'll save that for another time.
Of course not. AM only contributes to the failures of the Kings. All the successes are 100% due to the players and in spite of that rotten little high school coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn
While jt has proven he's more than capable of defending himself, I feel I should step in and toss in what I recall with my conversations with jt. The dislike jt had of Cammalleri stems from jt having friends who either went to Michigan while Cammalleri was there, or followed him very closely while he was there. Cammalleri seemed to have an attitude problem where he didn't listen to the coach.

As a result, he always figured that AM benching Cammalleri was because of some type of attitude he had. I'm sure jt would just love to be wrong about Cammalleri, but he wants to make sure the guy will listen to the coach first.
Yep. And for the record, I have no "dislike" of Cammy, they are just my observations. People can think there's some kind of personal animosity or dislike, but they're just wrong. In fact, I hope beyond hope that Cammy turns into a stud top 6er like Briere and retires after 20 GREAT years for the Kings. But what he's doing right now doesn't change who he was before AM benched him. Maybe that's the thing the finally flipped Cammy's switch and maybe it wasn't. All I know is that his play changed ALOT after that benching and he's been playing a TEAM game the way it's SUPPOSED to be played. I'm sure it also has alot to do with his teammates (which I give alot of credit to DT for)...namely guys like Conroy, Miller, Norstrom and Army. Those are the guys who make this Kings team a team.

But you've got it absolutely NAILED with your last sentence. There is NO room for a lone wolf on this team and that's what Cammy was...that's what he's always been...at least up until now. I absolutely LOVE alot of what he's been saying in interviews. One thing I like the most is that ALL the players I see interviewed are saying the same thing: "this is a TEAM...we win as a TEAM and we lose as a TEAM...my job is to fill my role and do what I need to for the TEAM to succeed...if we need checking, that's my job...if we need scoring, that's my job." And ALL the players I see interviewed say it. Well, all of them but JR and Luc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
The "role and style of play" that Mike is enjoying success with is no different than the role and style that he's always had. He "struggled initially" because Andy tried to change him by demanding that he check and grind. Remember how Mike was throwing the body and living in the corners in October and how AM was so happy with him (despite zero even-strength production)? Notice that Cammalleri has done very little of that recently and, yet, he has 7 goals in the last 7 games. He's playing his game--the game he's always played and is comfortable with--and is being successful at it; what a surprise.
Hogwash. Cammy is playing in traffic and doing what he's supposed to be doing. He's not cruising down the half-wall on the perimeter, which is EXACTLY what "his game" is and what he did throughout college and is one of the basic things AM has been trying to get him to stop doing. NOBODY expects (or wants) him to play like Darcy Tucker or Mike Peca. But he has to be willing to play REAL hockey and play in traffic. THAT is what's going to turn him into a top 6 forward in the NHL and that IS what he's been doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP
Taunting jt to post?

Wouldn't it be easier playing with a rattlesnake if you just want to stir the poop?
Have I just been called poop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV
Mike's playing within AM's system. It's the same system that he struggled in initially, and has now adapted to and found success in. Same system. Same coach. Same Cammalleri. Both AM and Mike have a hand in the success that the team and Mike individually are now enjoying.

I'm all for giving AM hell when he deserves it, but to imply that AM has given up and is now allowing Cammalleri to have free reign is swinging the pendulum way too far to one side. They've both adapted and found a mix that works.

You HAVE to give AM just as much credit for allowing Mike to find his groove as you give credit to Mike for thriving in a system he struggled in initially.

- T
Exactly. And I give TONS of credit to Cammy for FINALLY figuring this out. I REALLY hope it sticks and he plays this way for another 20 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILuvLA
I've been following you & Osprey going back & forth on Cammy/AM. I have to agree that there's no way in hell AM would give Cammy "free reign". Cammy's found a way to thrive in AM's system. Credit is due on both sides.
Absolutely. I give AM credit for finding a way to get Cammy to adjust...and I give Cammy credit for making the adustments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP
I was out of bed - stirring the poop someplace else
So I've noticed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David A. Rainer
I don't know about all that, but Cammy was always very arrogant and cocky on the ice and never backed it up in practice. That is what supposedly was rubbing the coaches the wrong way. That had a lot to do with why he was always begging for ice time - because he was trying to be taught that you need to earn it in practice.
It's nice to see other people seeing these things too.

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12-31-2005, 01:19 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David A. Rainer
I don't know about all that, but Cammy was always very arrogant and cocky on the ice and never backed it up in practice. That is what supposedly was rubbing the coaches the wrong way. That had a lot to do with why he was always begging for ice time - because he was trying to be taught that you need to earn it in practice.
I've been to tons of their practices and I never got that impression. He played up-tempo...buried on every goalie, in every hole and seemed to have good on ice chemistry with his team-mates........who he's always put ahead of himself.
Arrogant and cocky.........yeah....but he's always been a gamer at every level, and he continues to prove nay-sayers wrong. Posters here need to get over the size issue. He's a tremendous talent, that's overlooked.
I still don't believe AM has anything to do with the God given talent that he has. To obey a certain system.....maybe. But to give AM credit...I don't think so. In fact I still don't think he's complimenting him correctly or giving him the necessary confidence or ice time that he deserves. In pre-season he was playing first line. He hasn't been there since our first game. A week ago he was riding fourth line with Kanko, and Giuliano. When others get healthy we'll see the same trend, and then go on to say he's on a slump.
OK, no more being a kill joy! Hopefully he keeps up the good work and AM too.

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12-31-2005, 01:52 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swinginutter
I've been to tons of their practices and I never got that impression. He played up-tempo...buried on every goalie, in every hole and seemed to have good on ice chemistry with his team-mates........who he's always put ahead of himself.
Arrogant and cocky.........yeah....but he's always been a gamer at every level, and he continues to prove nay-sayers wrong. Posters here need to get over the size issue. He's a tremendous talent, that's overlooked.
I still don't believe AM has anything to do with the God given talent that he has. To obey a certain system.....maybe. But to give AM credit...I don't think so. In fact I still don't think he's complimenting him correctly or giving him the necessary confidence or ice time that he deserves. In pre-season he was playing first line. He hasn't been there since our first game. A week ago he was riding fourth line with Kanko, and Giuliano. When others get healthy we'll see the same trend, and then go on to say he's on a slump.
OK, no more being a kill joy! Hopefully he keeps up the good work and AM too.
Nobody on this board was saying AM had anything to do with Cammalleri's God given talent. I think we all know Cammalleri has all the tools to succeed. I was upset with AM when I saw Camms placed on the 4th line also but it didn't last long. I think his ice time will increase as each game goes on.

I believe him being in AM's doghouse had less to do with "AM's system" then just playing an all around game. Cammalleri is a young guy and he has a lot to learn and AM is trying to fully develop his game IMO. AM used to be a high school coach when we hired him if I remember correctly. That shows me he knows how to handle young players. I love Camm's game and were going to see him reach his potential in the NHL with Murray's help.

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12-31-2005, 02:06 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by jt
Exactly. And I give TONS of credit to Cammy for FINALLY figuring this out. I REALLY hope it sticks and he plays this way for another 20 years.

Absolutely. I give AM credit for finding a way to get Cammy to adjust...and I give Cammy credit for making the adustments.
I guess back-handed compliments are better than none at all, but you're still insistent that he had major issues in the first place, which is anything but the truth. That's the core of our disagreement, but that's cool; we can't agree on everything. Nice to see you again, regardless.

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12-31-2005, 02:09 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingz4life
Nobody on this board was saying AM had anything to do with Cammalleri's God given talent. I think we all know Cammalleri has all the tools to succeed. I was upset with AM when I saw Camms placed on the 4th line also but it didn't last long. I think his ice time will increase as each game goes on.

I believe him being in AM's doghouse had less to do with "AM's system" then just playing an all around game. Cammalleri is a young guy and he has a lot to learn and AM is trying to fully develop his game IMO. AM used to be a high school coach when we hired him if I remember correctly. That shows me he knows how to handle young players. I love Camm's game and were going to see him reach his potential in the NHL with Murray's help.
I can agree, up to a certain point. I truly believe that he was bumped up when we had a couple of injuries. The whole point of the Manchester Monarchs is not only to develop our own, but to develop them into the system that AM teaches. Does he have his own tricks up his sleeve for different players? Probably not. Point is, everybody that plays for LA or Manchester knows the system and their responsibilites. Same goes for Cammy.
We can speculate all we want! I don't know...in fact no one here knows what goes on behind closed doors. But I pay money just like the rest to see top players perform. Not to sit because a "match-up" didn't fit in. I agree that the players need to play as a team and play for each other, but I also believe that players (some) need to be given the reigns to do what they do best.....Does that mean falling out of the system? No. But play them properly and see what they do best. Cammy on a fourth line is just plain ridiculous.

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