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Old
10-19-2003, 05:37 AM
  #1
Lowetide
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Comrie rumor from Spector's

http://spectorshockey.tripod.com/spe...e_rumours.html


COMRIE FOR WEISS?

NEW YORK POST: Larry Brooks reports "source" claims Edmonton Oilers GM Kevin Lowe, who's been trying to move holdout centre Mike Comrie, has had several conversations with Florida Panthers GM Rick Dudley regarding a trade. Apparently, Lowe is interested in Panthers 2001 first round pick- and Mike Keenan whipping boy - Stephen Weiss, and would also prefer to have a defenceman included in the return.

Spector's Note: I wouldn't rule out the possibility, but I have a hard time believing Comrie would thrive playing for the demanding Keenan. After all, if criticism by Oilers management and fans is the true reason for Comrie's holdout, how well will he respond to "Iron Mike"?
__________________________________________________ __________

I think it was speeds who mentioned Weiss' name quite awhile ago. Weiss brings some nice things to the table and they also have some interesting defensemen.

Thoughts?

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10-19-2003, 05:43 AM
  #2
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I remember Weiss playing for Plymouth of the OHL. I would do that deal. Weiss has a very good upside and if FLA throws in a d-man, that would be great.

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10-19-2003, 05:49 AM
  #3
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the idea I came up with was something like:

Comrie and Rita

for

Weiss and Krajicek


Weiss didn't even make FLA (he got farmed out to San Antonio), and FLA is one of the few teams that could handle adding a small player into the top 6, with guys like Jokinen, Horton, Taticek, Kozlov already there.


I would imagine FLA might want to hold onto Krajicek, but I could see EDM holding out for him as well. He's an offensive defenceman prospect, out with a shoulder injury at the moment, so that's a risk I guess until you know he's got a clean bill of health. But FLA has a bunch of other young D, at least one of which I'm sure would interest Lowe, not including Bouwmeester .

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10-19-2003, 05:52 AM
  #4
Yanner39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
the idea I came up with was something like:

Comrie and Rita

for

Weiss and Krajicek


Weiss didn't even make FLA (he got farmed out to San Antonio), and FLA is one of the few teams that could handle adding a small player into the top 6, with guys like Jokinen, Horton, Taticek, Kozlov already there.


I would imagine FLA might want to hold onto Krajicek, but I could see EDM holding out for him as well. He's an offensive defenceman prospect, out with a shoulder injury at the moment, so that's a risk I guess until you know he's got a clean bill of health. But FLA has a bunch of other young D, at least one of which I'm sure would interest Lowe, not including Bouwmeester .
Speeds, I don't know alot about Krajicek. Wouldn't Edm be giving too much? Just asking. Seems a bit much.

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10-19-2003, 05:58 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
Speeds, I don't know alot about Krajicek. Wouldn't Edm be giving too much? Just asking. Seems a bit much.
I'm just going from what I've heard on Krajicek, but it seems like he'd be considered a better prospect than Rita at this point. Maybe that is too much from EDM, if I were GM that might be too much for me but I'm just guessing at what Lowe might do more than anything.

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10-19-2003, 06:01 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
I'm just going from what I've heard on Krajicek, but it seems like he'd be considered a better prospect than Rita at this point. Maybe that is too much from EDM, if I were GM that might be too much for me but I'm just guessing at what Lowe might do more than anything.
Thanks.

And Edm could probably use a top notch prospect on defense.

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10-19-2003, 06:35 AM
  #7
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I've long thought Florida would be a good fit in any Comrie deal. Weiss is an excellent young prospect who doesn't seem to fit the Keenan mold. And packaged with a d prospect this could be a good deal for both teams. I think Filip Novak is more likely than Krajicek, they are similar offensive players but Krajicek is viewed to have more upside.

Rita is our best prospect and possible trade asset. However I wonder if the Pathers could be sold on one of our veteran defensemen to balance out their youthful team. Would Ferguson or Cross have any value to get this done?

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10-19-2003, 07:25 AM
  #8
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Krajicek is probobly a top 20 - 30 prospect at the moment. It might be difficult to take him out of Florida. I would say his value is very high to the Panthers organization.

What about Brandislav Mezei? Big kid who just hasn't fit in elsewhere, could be a good pickup.

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10-19-2003, 07:45 AM
  #9
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I believe that Krajicek has the potential to be a franchise defenseman so it would be very tough to pry him out of Florida. However trading top prospects is an option IMO.

Comrie and Rita

for

Weiss and Krajicek


I think that this deal can be done!!!!!!

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Old
10-19-2003, 08:09 AM
  #10
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As great as that deal looks on paper, there's one problem: neither of those guys are really ready for full time NHL duties. We could use some fire power on the point right now. Mezei should be a solid stay-at-home type, but Van Ryan appears ready to realize his potential this season and break out...a great PP point man maybe.

Comrie ----- for ------ Weiss, Van Ryan

...would be my first choice

Comrie ----- for ------ Weiss, Mezei

...my second.

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10-19-2003, 09:06 AM
  #11
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let me make sure that i understand all of you here......

you all seem to think that a comrie for weiss deal is GOOD?!?!? you cant be serious..... we're gonna take a 30 goal scorer and ship him out for a player that couldnt even make *floridas* team?? this is lunacy

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10-19-2003, 09:26 AM
  #12
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Comrie's ego would last about 5 seconds under Keenan.
That could be a stick that Lowe uses to get him to sign. "If you don't sign for us, you play for Mike"

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10-19-2003, 09:42 AM
  #13
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To make myself perfectly clear for you... yes, with a caveat. This must be more than a one for one trade. If the Oilers can build upon it to land one of Florida's young defenseman, then yes, I'd do this deal.

Weiss scored 21 points last year for the Floridians. He did so as a 19 year old player. He was also the 11th overall best prospect in THN Future Watch 2002. He fits the Oiler style to a T (or MacT) with strong skating and a developing two way game. The fact Weiss is gaining playing time and experience this year in the AHL will likely help him longterm versus being a role player on the big club.

If the Oil can sweeten the pot with a young defenseman, this will even out the trade in the short term but also build team depth in an area of weakness - puck moving, power play defenseman (assuming Novak or the less likely Krajicek). Heck if it were Mezei, then we gain another big, physical defenseman.

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10-19-2003, 09:52 AM
  #14
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I only know what I've read about Weiss, but here's the line on 2 19 year olds last season:

Hemsky 59go, 6-24-30, 12:04
Weiss 77gp, 6-15-21, 14:17

Hemsky's #'s are certainly superior, but Weiss wasn't just skating around with his head up his proverbial.

Also, where do you often find gems? When they being overlooked. If I made a list of players who Keenan didn't like they could win the fricking Stanley.

If they could get one of those beauty defenseman as well, it is certainly a deal they should look at imo.

Don't know what else is out there, but Weiss is certainly a quality young player.

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Old
10-19-2003, 10:02 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chit94
I believe that Krajicek has the potential to be a franchise defenseman so it would be very tough to pry him out of Florida. However trading top prospects is an option IMO.

Comrie and Rita

for

Weiss and Krajicek


I think that this deal can be done!!!!!!
Maybe, but if I'm Florida, I'm thinking I'm giving up an awful lot, even for Mike Comrie.

Maybe Comrie & a defenseman that's in the lineup? Steve Staios, or Alexei Semenov. Just throwing out some names, the Cats need blueliners badly.

I think hunteroranges idea was best, though.

Weiss & Mezei for Comrie is very fair, and a good deal for the Oilers, I'd say. I feel Weiss will become a very good NHL'er. Potential 1st line centre.

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10-19-2003, 10:12 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Silver[/b]]"If you don't sign for us, you play for Mike"
I like the way think Silver!
Quote:
... yes, with a caveat.
Behind Enemy Lines you make good points but I would perfer to get a top 4 impact player to play on the D immediately. The Oilers are prospect heavy and experience light as it is. Personally I hope this distraction is resolved sooner than later so I can back to wondering why and lamenting my boneheaded decision not to put Staios into my hockey pool selections this last week. Back to back 3 point games, go figure ... and a free agent pickup to boot.

I sometimes wonder if GM's sweat the details of high talent players a little too much?

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10-19-2003, 10:28 AM
  #17
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We'd all agree to top four talent in return for Comrie. However I don't think the rest of the league views Comrie with the same value. These proposed Florida deals have more upside imo than others such as Marc Savard even-up or Arnason/McCarthy; and even Lundmark/Tyutin.

There is no question the Comrie situation is a dangerous predicament for Oiler management. If in fact Comrie is dealt, we must ensure a quality return which will pay dividends over the longterm. For me, the Florida proposal looks very promising with the afformentioned players being very close to NHL ready and potentially impact players.

I trust Lowe will move slowly to ensure the best deal. A wrong step would really setback this organization.

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10-19-2003, 11:26 AM
  #18
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Sure I could see Comrie going to Florida – they need scoring and I actually think MC is a Keenan kind of player. He tough for his size and doesn’t back down. Most of the garbage about MC not taking to criticism last spring was so much BS covering up his desire to play elsewhere IMO. Comrie could play for Keenan – I don’t have any doubts about that - and it would probably even thrive in Florida.

But let’s get serious …..Weiss does not equal Comrie. Weiss is a small non-physical center who MAY end up as good as Comrie. He has proven nothing and is probably a downgrade in terms of toughness. So swapping Weiss for Comrie gets zero in terms of more size and no guarantee of anything in terms of offence. I also think that Weiss brings us nothing that we don’t already have in the system with Niniimaki and Pouliot. Bottom line: Weiss is a smaller center who MAY be top 6 material – Comrie is a smaller center who IS top 6 material. So from an Oiler perspective – why bother?

The Smyth at center experiment also seems to be working out pretty well IMO – and if we keep him there – then getting a center in return for Comrie is not that important given the other guys we have in the system. You have to remember that the Oilers are trading for tomorrow as much as today – and we will have a real glut of young centers in the system in the not too distant future. The only bigger young center that we could reasonably expect for Comrie and who would fit into our system right now is Stefan. I would do a deal centred around him because he would look great with any of our young wingers in the future.

So while Weiss really does very little for me – a number of the young Florida dmen certainly do. Krajicek would look very good as an Oiler because of his skating and offence promise and I could see him being part of a deal. Lowe has also liked Merzei for a long time but he would be a secondary part of any trade. This team needs dmen fast because Staios is a UFA in July – and unless we sign him to an extension – he may be gone at the trade deadline. I’d hate to see it happen but he could walk for nothing later in the summer. Smith is also on the edge in terms of his salary and value to the team. We have a few good stay at home dmen in the system like Lynch (seems a lot like a young Staios to me) and Greene (seems a lot like a young Smith) but these guys are a few years off in terms being able to contribute. So as a GM Lowe has to try keep both Smith and Staios in the system for a few more years while our young dmen develop – and add an offensive dman like Krajicek which we lack. It won’t be easy but Comrie is a big trading chip that should get us the young offensive dman we need.

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10-19-2003, 11:33 AM
  #19
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Behind Enemy Lines I concur with your assessment of the potential of those who would be recieved in a trade for Comrie as you outlined and if such a deal happens let's hope for the best. With players like MacInnis, Carney, and Hatcher (no tears here) going down I think this points to how much harder it is for, especially small market teams, to develope depth on the blueline. That is the only simple point I am making.

So if a good solid top 4 D-man is not a trade possibility I agree with you the Oilers should wait until Lowe can get value for Comrie. In this case though maybe we can trade Comrie's salary expectations for size, depth and more experience. The Fram Filter trade approach i.e. pay me now or bare the time and cost of developing younger players.

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10-19-2003, 04:43 PM
  #20
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I'm a bit surprised here...do most of you prefer Mezei to Van Ryan. Don't we have Brewer and Semenov (two towering young "bruisers" to be) and lack a real PP quaterback with reasonable size, mobility and top four potential.

Would most of you really prefer:

Comrie ------------- for ------------- Weiss & Mezei

to

Comrie ----------- for -------------- Weiss & Van Ryan

?????

If so, I may be on my own here.

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10-19-2003, 05:16 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
...
But let’s get serious …..Weiss does not equal Comrie. Weiss is a small non-physical center who MAY end up as good as Comrie. He has proven nothing and is probably a downgrade in terms of toughness. So swapping Weiss for Comrie gets zero in terms of more size and no guarantee of anything in terms of offence. I also think that Weiss brings us nothing that we don’t already have in the system with Niniimaki and Pouliot. Bottom line: Weiss is a smaller center who MAY be top 6 material – Comrie is a smaller center who IS top 6 material. So from an Oiler perspective – why bother?

The Smyth at center experiment also seems to be working out pretty well IMO – and if we keep him there – then getting a center in return for Comrie is not that important given the other guys we have in the system. You have to remember that the Oilers are trading for tomorrow as much as today – and we will have a real glut of young centers in the system in the not too distant future.
Excellent post Asiaoil. Some great points there, especially the "the Oilers are trading for tomorrow as much as today" bit. Its something we are all very cognizant of in the summer, but tend to lose sight of once the regular season starts.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the defenseman return suggestion. The fact is that top-six forwards have much more impact on the success of a team (i.e. their ability to outscore opponents) than top-four defensemen do, with only a handful of exceptions. And unless the return is a defenceman prospect who is potentially a game-breaker in the Lidstrom/Gonchar mould ... I'm hoping against it. Right now the Oilers have seven defencemen who play tough, they all fight when they need to, they all take a hit to make a play, they all have a little bit of their own GM in them. I doubt that is coincidence. And personally I don't mind one bit.

If the Oilers are looking to the future with a Comrie deal (which on the surface seems a bit crazy considering how young Comrie is) then they are best to wait IMO. GMs aren't going to deal away a key part of the future for short-term gain ... not unless their jobs are on the line. And it is way too early for that scenario to be available to Lowe, but it will probably happen eventually this year, and with a few teams, but not for some time yet.

Patience, Mr. Lowe, patience.

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10-19-2003, 06:18 PM
  #22
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Weiss- playmaking two-way cneter, Hemsky, playmaking "two-way???" winger, not a good combination unless you add kovalchuk to the other side and feed him all night long.

Mezei, the best move i ever saw him make was sitting in the penalty box (live) at the Phillips arena in ATL, he was on the jumbotron picking his nose to the enjoyment or maybe the dismay of the crowd in Georgia.I don't like this deal at all from the Oilers perpspective.

I think there are better deals to be had and if not just hold onto him.

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10-19-2003, 06:35 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igor
Excellent post Asiaoil. Some great points there, especially the "the Oilers are trading for tomorrow as much as today" bit. Its something we are all very cognizant of in the summer, but tend to lose sight of once the regular season starts.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the defenseman return suggestion. The fact is that top-six forwards have much more impact on the success of a team (i.e. their ability to outscore opponents) than top-four defensemen do, with only a handful of exceptions. And unless the return is a defenceman prospect who is potentially a game-breaker in the Lidstrom/Gonchar mould ... I'm hoping against it. Right now the Oilers have seven defencemen who play tough, they all fight when they need to, they all take a hit to make a play, they all have a little bit of their own GM in them. I doubt that is coincidence. And personally I don't mind one bit.

If the Oilers are looking to the future with a Comrie deal (which on the surface seems a bit crazy considering how young Comrie is) then they are best to wait IMO. GMs aren't going to deal away a key part of the future for short-term gain ... not unless their jobs are on the line. And it is way too early for that scenario to be available to Lowe, but it will probably happen eventually this year, and with a few teams, but not for some time yet.

Patience, Mr. Lowe, patience.
Well I could agree with going for a forward as long as Lowe knows that he can retain both Smith and Staios next season. A top 4 of Brew, Semi, Smith and Staios is fine - we have plenty of guys for the 3rd pair - and a couple of prospects who look to have 2nd pair potential (Lynch and Green). If we lose anybody out of the top 4 defense for an extended period, however, we're pooched.

What the Oilers are clearly missing is another elite player. Having another guy like that would take them to the next level - and it really doesn't matter what position he plays (forward, goal, defense). I would happily package Comrie, Rita and a pick for the right guy - and you're right - its going to take time before GMs on losing teams get desperate enough to do this kind of deal. Its time to go quantity for quality for a change and we actually have the trading chips to do that kind of deal.

As you said - patience gets us what we want - eventually

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10-19-2003, 07:12 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
A top 4 of Brew, Semi, Smith and Staios is fine - we have plenty of guys for the 3rd pair - and a couple of prospects who look to have 2nd pair potential (Lynch and Green). If we lose anybody out of the top 4 defense for an extended period, however, we're pooched.
Thing to keep in mind is, Staios and Smith are coming close to dodgy contractual waters in the next one or two years. I could totally see a scenario where Lowe may be forced to pick between the two of them because he might not be able to afford both.

You can never have too many good Dmen IMO.

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10-19-2003, 07:38 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter orange
I'm a bit surprised here...do most of you prefer Mezei to Van Ryan. Don't we have Brewer and Semenov (two towering young "bruisers" to be) and lack a real PP quaterback with reasonable size, mobility and top four potential.

Would most of you really prefer:

Comrie ------------- for ------------- Weiss & Mezei

to

Comrie ----------- for -------------- Weiss & Van Ryan

?????

If so, I may be on my own here.
I think the popular sentiment is that Fla just got Van Ryn last season and they're not likely to give him up just yet.

I'd take Van Ryn over Mezei in a heartbeat.

I also prefer for the trade to be done without Rita being involved. Add whomever else you want from the farm, but keep Jani out of it.

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