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Old
01-18-2006, 12:04 PM
  #1
kimzey59
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Great news Blues fans:

As per Andy Strickland:

Aaron Downey has been placed on waivers.

John Disalvatore has been called up.

Bad news; McClement got sent down again.


Are we finally seeing a management mandate to rebuild and play the kids?

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01-18-2006, 12:12 PM
  #2
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Downey got into a shouting match with Kitchen on the bench regarding his ice time during the game last night, so it's more likely front office's knee-jerk reaction to that.

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01-18-2006, 12:14 PM
  #3
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Disalvatore has earned it based on his play over the last 6 weeks. The only one who might have deserved it more (and it's arguable) is Glumac. Jon seems to be perfectly suited for the 3rd line - let's see where he gets stuck.

McClement back to Peoria, ... I'm not as down on it at the moment, I'm not sure whether I want him back up ASAP or down for 15-20 games to work on his game.

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01-18-2006, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by De-Spirited
Downey got into a shouting match with Kitchen on the bench regarding his ice time during the game last night, so it's more likely front office's knee-jerk reaction to that.

Honestly; I don't care how we got rid of Downey as long as we GET rid of Downey. A lot of people are SICK with Kitchen benching Gamache(one of our few "skilled" players) in favor of a part-time enforcer who can't even fight. Knee-Jerk reaction or not; waiving Downey helps our rebuild as it give the kids an actual chance to make the lineup.

Hopefully Rycroft and Hoggan are next(I can live with RJ as the 4th line Center if he's with guys like Mayers and Drake; those 3 are good enough on the forecheck to be a nice disruptive pressence that plays great defensive hockey).

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01-18-2006, 12:22 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
Honestly; I don't care how we got rid of Downey as long as we GET rid of Downey. A lot of people are SICK with Kitchen benching Gamache(one of our few "skilled" players) in favor of a part-time enforcer who can't even fight. Knee-Jerk reaction or not; waiving Downey helps our rebuild as it give the kids an actual chance to make the lineup.

Hopefully Rycroft and Hoggan are next(I can live with RJ as the 4th line Center if he's with guys like Mayers and Drake; those 3 are good enough on the forecheck to be a nice disruptive pressence that plays great defensive hockey).
oh, I agree completely, but I'm just saying it's more likely a knee-jerk reaction more than good decision making.

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01-18-2006, 12:26 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by De-Spirited
oh, I agree completely, but I'm just saying it's more likely a knee-jerk reaction more than good decision making.

Even a blind squirrel....

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01-18-2006, 01:45 PM
  #7
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I wonder if Gamache still stays out....

Anyways, this is a start. I'd like the firesale to begin now - start talking about moving Drake, Weight, Sillinger, Weinrich, Poapst and Young. These guys shouldn't have to play in a pathetic situation where ownership doesn't care about them. It's right for the players and right for the team. Let's see if Pleau can make some good deals. It might just buy him a reprieve from some of the bashers...

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01-18-2006, 03:57 PM
  #8
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It would be stupid to start dealing before the middle of February at the earliest and in reality not until March 1st. More bidders at the deadline= better value.

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01-18-2006, 04:52 PM
  #9
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I gotta think most of those are going to go closer to the trade deadline. Through all of the tough times this season I am still extremely impressed with the professionalism of most of the Blues. Drake, Weinrich, Weight, Tkachuk, and especially Sillinger show up and play hard every game. Since we always make the playoffs we haven't seen a team first hand that has nothing to play for and I'm sure on some teams the veterans just take it easy during a lost year, but these guys still fight for every inch of ice and that makes he proud to be a Blues fan. On the Sillinger thing I knew he was always an underrated player mostly stuck on the third line, but he would be an awesome pickup for a serious contender to play on the second line and take faceoffs.

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Old
01-18-2006, 05:35 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
Honestly; I don't care how we got rid of Downey as long as we GET rid of Downey. A lot of people are SICK with Kitchen benching Gamache(one of our few "skilled" players) in favor of a part-time enforcer who can't even fight. Knee-Jerk reaction or not; waiving Downey helps our rebuild as it give the kids an actual chance to make the lineup.

Hopefully Rycroft and Hoggan are next(I can live with RJ as the 4th line Center if he's with guys like Mayers and Drake; those 3 are good enough on the forecheck to be a nice disruptive pressence that plays great defensive hockey).
I have no problem with them getting rid of Downey either because he hasnt done his job very well this year. I do think that it is a mistake to not have a player like him or Walker around and in the lineup though because although jackman can do the fighting we dont want him doing a large amount of it. We need a enforcer type they should call up King or thompson from Peoria.

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01-18-2006, 08:20 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
Honestly; I don't care how we got rid of Downey as long as we GET rid of Downey. A lot of people are SICK with Kitchen benching Gamache(one of our few "skilled" players) in favor of a part-time enforcer who can't even fight. Knee-Jerk reaction or not; waiving Downey helps our rebuild as it give the kids an actual chance to make the lineup.

Hopefully Rycroft and Hoggan are next(I can live with RJ as the 4th line Center if he's with guys like Mayers and Drake; those 3 are good enough on the forecheck to be a nice disruptive pressence that plays great defensive hockey).
I'd actually prefer that RJ be waived and we keep Hoggan and Rycroft. RJ has wheels to burn but absolutely no hands whatsoever. Rycroft has shown some ability to score, so has Hoggan, and both play a good defensive game as well. Drop Drake down a line and call up Glumac. Lines could be as follows.

McAmmond Weight Orszagh
Gamache Cajanek Glumac
Drake Sillinger Disalvatore
Mayers Hoggan Rycroft

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01-18-2006, 08:53 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82
I'd actually prefer that RJ be waived and we keep Hoggan and Rycroft. RJ has wheels to burn but absolutely no hands whatsoever. Rycroft has shown some ability to score, so has Hoggan, and both play a good defensive game as well. Drop Drake down a line and call up Glumac. Lines could be as follows.

McAmmond Weight Orszagh
Gamache Cajanek Glumac
Drake Sillinger Disalvatore
Mayers Hoggan Rycroft

I wouldn't agree. i think RJ has outplayed both two times over this season, especially on the penalty kill. He realy has impressed me this year, and although you are right on with your assesment of their offensive skill, for a fourth liner RJ is perfectly suited.

I would hate to let Rycroft go based just off the fact the guy works so hard everynight but at sometime you got to improve the team and i would start by letting him go.

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01-18-2006, 09:37 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemieux32
It would be stupid to start dealing before the middle of February at the earliest and in reality not until March 1st. More bidders at the deadline= better value.
With the Blues luck, management will hold out till near the trade deadline just as Weight suffers a season ending injury....I'd hate to run the risk of something botching the whole thing.

If a team offers a great deal right now on any of our vets, I'd be willing to make a move. If we are serious about trading, we can get teams involved right now.

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01-19-2006, 12:56 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluez_cluez
I wouldn't agree. i think RJ has outplayed both two times over this season, especially on the penalty kill. He realy has impressed me this year, and although you are right on with your assesment of their offensive skill, for a fourth liner RJ is perfectly suited.

I would hate to let Rycroft go based just off the fact the guy works so hard everynight but at sometime you got to improve the team and i would start by letting him go.
Reason I'm picking RJ is because he and Mayers are carbon copies, wheels to burn, great on the PK, but atrocious hands. Better to let one hands of stone guy go than one of Rycroft or Hoggan who can contribute a bit more offensively while still giving the same defensive output.

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01-19-2006, 05:34 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Legend
With the Blues luck, management will hold out till near the trade deadline just as Weight suffers a season ending injury....I'd hate to run the risk of something botching the whole thing.

If a team offers a great deal right now on any of our vets, I'd be willing to make a move. If we are serious about trading, we can get teams involved right now.
I agree with lemieux32 in part - I don't think teams will move to pick up a guy like Weight until after the Olympics because (1) that's someone sitting on the roster that the acquiring team will have to pay, and (2) waiting until after the Olympics gives most teams more flexibility to add higher-priced players.

But if we get a deal that knocks our socks off, pull the trigger. Let's not get sentimental like Glen Sather did in 2001 when we apparently had a deal to get Mike Richter and Sather wanted Richter to play one final game at MSG; that night, Richter tore the ACL in his left knee and was done for the season.

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Old
01-19-2006, 09:08 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SneakerPimp82
I'd actually prefer that RJ be waived and we keep Hoggan and Rycroft. RJ has wheels to burn but absolutely no hands whatsoever. Rycroft has shown some ability to score, so has Hoggan, and both play a good defensive game as well. Drop Drake down a line and call up Glumac. Lines could be as follows.

McAmmond Weight Orszagh
Gamache Cajanek Glumac
Drake Sillinger Disalvatore
Mayers Hoggan Rycroft
1) RJ may not have a goal scorers touch, but he is far and away a better playmaker than Rycroft or Hoggan. It may not come from pretty set-up passes like Weight or Cajanek, but his speed creates high risk turnovers that somebody like Mayers or Drake can capitalize on(a lot of Jammers early offense came with Drake and RJ on his line).

2) Neither Hoggan nor Rycroft have shown that they can play center. RJ has become a fairly decent FO specialist. Considering that Sillinger is the only other player on the team who can win a draw you keep RJ for FO's if nothing else.

3) The only reason Rycroft and/or Hoggan is playing on the PK is because of injuries. RJ has earned his stripes as a Penalty killer and is one of the top 3 PK'er on the team. With Drake, Sil, Mayers and RJ you have a very good set of PK'er to call on. We don't need "utility" forwards(which is what Hoggan and Rycroft are) with that many PK specialists on the team.

I don't dislike either player, it's just that we have FAR too many grinders playing on the team. Drake and Mayers need their roles reduced and that means Rycroft and Hoggan need to sit. I'd have no issue with Hoggan replacing Drake on the line next year, but while Drake's here I don't see how you can play both in the same lineup(not if you expect to score more than a goal a game in any case).

As far as lines; ideally I'd play

McAmmond Weight(until traded) Young
Gamache Cajanek Orszagh
Sejna Sillinger(until traded; McClement replaces) Stempniak
Drake(unless traded; Hoggan replaces) RJ Mayers

With the top 3 lines being evenly rotated. When Walt returns you put him in Gamache's spot; Gamache in MCAmmonds spot and move McAmmond to Sil's line.
Tkachuk Cajanek Orszagh
Gamache Weight Young
McAmmond Sillinger Stempniak
Drake RJ Mayers


Last edited by kimzey59: 01-19-2006 at 09:26 AM.
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Old
01-19-2006, 12:27 PM
  #17
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First of all, This team is reflecting there 3rd line captain. But that is for another time and another thread.

1. Johnson has been very effective on the pentaly kill and 4th line center duties. Actually been very impressed with him compared to his first year with the Blues. His speed is his #1 weapon, and from what I have seen this season so far. I would say that he has been very effective with his speed on PK or 4th line duties.

2. Hoggan or Rycroft. Hoggan appears, at least to me, that he is a good on the forecheck & PK. A very good winger for the 3rd/4th line. But Rycroft, until lately, has played not very well(to put it lightly). Just in the past few weeks he has cranked it up. Drake will be gone this season , at trade deadline or at end of season. So if Rycroft can go back to peroria with out going through waivers, Rycroft is the one who needs more seasoning not Hoggan. But all younger players who are only playing 3-4 minutes a game could use a stint in the minors to hone in on their skill.

3. Definetly agree that way too many grinders on this team. Pretty pathetic when Mayers is on your top line with Weight. Like on Monday against the Devils, Weight had to pass to a defensmen to get a goal to start everything.

Lines:
Sejna/Weight/Orszagh
Gamache/Sillinger/Young
Mayers/Cajanek/Stempniak
Hoggan/RJ/Drake
(The line order is not set in stone, hence Weight's line is not necessarily the 1st line)

Gamache/Sejna/Glumac/Disalvatore(Spelling bad, sorry)/Woywitka and any other guys in the miinors that have a chance for next season's roster. Time to start giving these younger player time on the NHL roster.

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01-19-2006, 01:23 PM
  #18
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Rycroft would have to clear waivers. However, I don't see anyone rushing to pluck him off the waiver wire when he goes down.

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01-19-2006, 03:04 PM
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There isnt enough toughness on those lines and you dont want Jackman doing the bulk of the fighting even though he is capable as long as he stays away from the elite fighters. we need a tough winger on the 4th line.

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01-19-2006, 03:15 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp
There isnt enough toughness on those lines and you dont want Jackman doing the bulk of the fighting even though he is capable as long as he stays away from the elite fighters. we need a tough winger on the 4th line.

Jackman wouldn't be our primary tough guy: Jammer, Walker, Salvy and Drake would be the primary "tough guys". With the NHL's new focus on skill, 4 "tough guys" shopukld be enough. Couple those 4 with Jax and Tkachuk; plus having McAmmond, Orszagh and Sillinger(guys who aren't exactly "finesse") and I think we have more than enough "muscle" in the lineup. We need more skill in the lineup; not more muscle.

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01-19-2006, 03:33 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59
Jackman wouldn't be our primary tough guy: Jammer, Walker, Salvy and Drake would be the primary "tough guys". With the NHL's new focus on skill, 4 "tough guys" shopukld be enough. Couple those 4 with Jax and Tkachuk; plus having McAmmond, Orszagh and Sillinger(guys who aren't exactly "finesse") and I think we have more than enough "muscle" in the lineup. We need more skill in the lineup; not more muscle.
With the exception of Walker none of those guys you listed can fight with heavys and be effective. This team still fights pretty regular even in the New NHL or whatever you want to call it. The team has plenty of grit with the guys you mentioned but they need a legit fighter in the lineup and Walker cannot seem to stay healthy. I think they would do well to call up DJ King since he seems to be the enforcer of the future.

McAmmond Orszagh and Sillinger dont fit into the discussion here, if they are getting overly involved in teh rough stuff something is wrong on several fronts.

As for Tkachuk he has done a good job for the Blues as a player but you know as well as me that he isnt a scrapper and is prone to using the stick for most of his toughness as evidenced by the fact that he has had at least one stick suspension a year in his time here.

I know the role of the fighter has been diminished but this team still fights a lot and they need someone in the lineup that can do it. Teams will take note of how Jannsen ran around all night and you will see it happen more and the Blues need someone to counteract this. Right now unless Walker is healthy you dont have it.

We do need more skill but having a tough guy on the 4th line makews more sence to me at this point. Hell this team needs help in all areas we all know that and it ist going to get fixed overnight

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01-19-2006, 04:44 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp
With the exception of Walker none of those guys you listed can fight with heavys and be effective. This team still fights pretty regular even in the New NHL or whatever you want to call it. The team has plenty of grit with the guys you mentioned but they need a legit fighter in the lineup and Walker cannot seem to stay healthy. I think they would do well to call up DJ King since he seems to be the enforcer of the future.

McAmmond Orszagh and Sillinger dont fit into the discussion here, if they are getting overly involved in teh rough stuff something is wrong on several fronts.

As for Tkachuk he has done a good job for the Blues as a player but you know as well as me that he isnt a scrapper and is prone to using the stick for most of his toughness as evidenced by the fact that he has had at least one stick suspension a year in his time here.

I know the role of the fighter has been diminished but this team still fights a lot and they need someone in the lineup that can do it. Teams will take note of how Jannsen ran around all night and you will see it happen more and the Blues need someone to counteract this. Right now unless Walker is healthy you dont have it.

We do need more skill but having a tough guy on the 4th line makews more sence to me at this point. Hell this team needs help in all areas we all know that and it ist going to get fixed overnight
Part of the problem with this team is that we're focusing way too much on the physical aspect of the game and not enough on the finesse part. We already have enough grit with Walker, Jammer, Drake, Salvy, Jackman and Tkachuk. IF we had players who could control the puck better we wouldn't be nearly as vulnerable to a punk like Jannsen. All Jannsen was doing was forechecking(and turtling when challenged); proper puck movement is all it takes to beat a good forecheck. The Blues have no up-ice puck movement; you fix that and grit becomes a MUCH lesser priority. Therefore; we need to focus more on offense and less on grit. Putting another offensively challenged player on this team is the LAST thing we should be doing.

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01-20-2006, 08:46 AM
  #23
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This was in the Peoria paper today:

Quote:
There will be an opening in Peoria for NHL veteran enforcer Downey, if he gets here. Downey cleared waivers Thursday, but the Blues had not assigned him to the Rivermen, in part, because multiple NHL clubs had shown interest in trading for him.
http://www.pjstar.com/stories/012006...G8CQ.077.shtml

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01-20-2006, 10:16 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
This was in the Peoria paper today:

There will be an opening in Peoria for NHL veteran enforcer Downey, if he gets here. Downey cleared waivers Thursday, but the Blues had not assigned him to the Rivermen, in part, because multiple NHL clubs had shown interest in trading for him.

http://www.pjstar.com/stories/012006...G8CQ.077.shtml

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01-20-2006, 10:53 AM
  #25
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My thinking has Fitz being our future tough guy.

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