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Rasmus Ristolainen – Part 2

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Old
10-06-2016, 06:34 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Did I just read that Bylsma plans to play Gorges-Risto again... I don't know if my hate for Bylsma could reach another level.... But that would totally do it.
I'm hoping he's just saying that he's using him in practice as if he'll be on a d-pair and part of the season preparations. But if talks break down he will be on the outside looking in. Not sure he was saying he is playing specifically with Gorges. Plus Kulikov and Bogo aren't skating with team.

If not then .... well... ****.

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10-06-2016, 06:49 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I'm hoping he's just saying that he's using him in practice as if he'll be on a d-pair and part of the season preparations. But if talks break down he will be on the outside looking in. Not sure he was saying he is playing specifically with Gorges. Plus Kulikov and Bogo aren't skating with team.

If not then .... well... ****.
This has me wondering, what do most people think the potential D pairings will look like if all players are healthy?

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10-06-2016, 07:37 PM
  #78
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This has me wondering, what do most people think the potential D pairings will look like if all players are healthy?
Risto-mccabe
Bogo-kulikov
Franson-gorges.

If I had my way...

Risto-kulikov
Bogo-gorges
Franson-mccabe.

Only because the thought of a Nelson mccabe pairing is rough but if Franson hasn't improved oh well roll the dice on the youngins

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10-06-2016, 10:07 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
I am a STH as well. And having Risto signed/not signed will not make a team play below average/above average. The team is perfectly capable to playing below/above average with/without him.

He's not the linchpin to the season. No ONE player is.
You should be a politician

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10-06-2016, 10:14 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
I am a STH as well. And having Risto signed/not signed will not make a team play below average/above average. The team is perfectly capable to playing below/above average with/without him.

He's not the linchpin to the season. No ONE player is.
He's not the linchpin but he's 20-25 minutes a night missing. Pretty massive. Without him -- I still believe he'll sign -- we lose a lot.

Every injury, missing player adds up and eventually you don't make it.

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10-06-2016, 10:22 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
Risto-mccabe
Bogo-kulikov
Franson-gorges.

If I had my way...

Risto-kulikov
Bogo-gorges
Franson-mccabe.

Only because the thought of a Nelson mccabe pairing is rough but if Franson hasn't improved oh well roll the dice on the youngins
Given that we are into the whole righty-lefty thing, if Risto isn't signed and Bogo is hurt, we are shooting ourselves in the foot.

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10-07-2016, 08:21 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
I am a STH as well. And having Risto signed/not signed will not make a team play below average/above average. The team is perfectly capable to playing below/above average with/without him.

He's not the linchpin to the season. No ONE player is.
Eh. Losing a good forward....there are 11 other players.

Losing a good d-man? When our D depth is pretty meh as it is. Going to hurt alot, especially the longer it goes on.

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10-07-2016, 08:49 AM
  #83
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Risto really holds all the cards here. If he wants to just wait it out and watch the team flounder for a month, more power to him. Seems to me that's most likely at this point.

If we're really offering $4.5M as the rumor goes, sad.

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10-07-2016, 09:40 AM
  #84
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10-07-2016, 10:54 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Risto really holds all the cards here. If he wants to just wait it out and watch the team flounder for a month, more power to him. Seems to me that's most likely at this point.

If we're really offering $4.5M as the rumor goes, sad.
Sounds like something his agent would say! RAsmus has almost no power or leverage, not even arbit ration rights. If an RFA coming off his ELC 'holds all the cards', then the owners got fleeced on the CBA.... and we know that didn't happen

He will accept what Murray is offering a day or two before the opener.

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10-07-2016, 11:07 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JOVIS View Post
Sounds like something his agent would say! RAsmus has almost no power or leverage, not even arbit ration rights. If an RFA coming off his ELC 'holds all the cards', then the owners got fleeced on the CBA.... and we know that didn't happen

He will accept what Murray is offering a day or two before the opener.
You really don't understand this situation very well, do you?

If the above comments sounds like Risto's agent, you sound like a sleazy lawyer working for "Big Bad Company" from some feel good 80's movie lol. Risto and his agent won't just roll over much like Murray won't either. Neither side holds all the cards.

Don't you have a Yahoo Sports "article" due?

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10-07-2016, 11:37 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresHockey66 View Post
You really don't understand this situation very well, do you?

If the above comments sounds like Risto's agent, you sound like a sleazy lawyer working for "Big Bad Company" from some feel good 80's movie lol. Risto and his agent won't just roll over much like Murray won't either. Neither side holds all the cards.

Don't you have a Yahoo Sports "article" due?
In the context of a 6+ year deal, Tim Murray will not sacrifice long term organizational stability for some early season games in 2016 or fan pressure.

I say 'sounds like the agent', because an agent by definition advocates & spins something that is so one sided, so as to create the appearance of leverage where there is in truth very litle. To sound like the 'man' or the company is only to tell the truth in this case. There are empirical facts that confirm RFAs hold very few cards, unless theyre willing to play in a different league for almost certainly less money. SEE: Jonathan Drouin, Hamonic, Trouba, et al. Whether they 'roll over' or not, time is on the Sabres side in a big way. They can play chicken all they like, but they're driving a smart car up against a big rig. ... lol not gonna come out in as good a shape.

There is a decent chance he agrees to a bridge deal in the 11th hour as well. That certainly wouldn't be 'rolling over', just the nature of the CBA and trying to hedge his long term bets. It's not really something to get offended over on the players behalf, they just simply do not hold the cards. As a fan of the Sabres I'm glad for that. I want TM to build the best team possible!

Sup w the yahoo thing?


Last edited by JOVIS*: 10-07-2016 at 11:46 AM.
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Old
10-07-2016, 11:47 AM
  #88
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I'm scratching my head on this one. Nothing comparable coming up through the organization. Are they worried about Eichel and Sam contracts? Is there some impending glut of high-end UFA defensemen next Summer? Maybe we are still talking trade with some team (Fowler, etc.)?

What are some legit question marks with Rasmus? Seems to me only be upside, and what he is now is pretty outstanding.

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Old
10-07-2016, 11:52 AM
  #89
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I don't think there are any major question marks, just a disagreement on value. The whole point of the CBA's RFA rules is to keep contracts as low as possible as long as possible....but all these younger stars seem to be challenging that paradigm. I think he might end up still signing long term in the low 5s.

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10-07-2016, 11:58 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by kummelweck View Post
I'm scratching my head on this one. Nothing comparable coming up through the organization. Are they worried about Eichel and Sam contracts? Is there some impending glut of high-end UFA defensemen next Summer? Maybe we are still talking trade with some team (Fowler, etc.)?

What are some legit question marks with Rasmus? Seems to me only be upside, and what he is now is pretty outstanding.
They better be! If Eichel turns into the true star they are hoping he becomes, that isn't going to come cheap.

Eichel and Risto aren't in the same tier. If we're thinking it will take 5-5.5 for Risto, just imagine what Eichel is going to demand when he hits RFA.

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10-07-2016, 12:06 PM
  #91
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I think the the owners, via their respective GMs, are taking a stand and refusing to let the Ekblad contract cause a trend. They're doing their best to ensure that deal is an outlier, and to keep the league salary structure intact only two years removed from the last lockout.

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10-07-2016, 12:08 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by JOVIS View Post
In the context of a 6+ year deal, Tim Murray will not sacrifice long term organizational stability for some early season games in 2016 or fan pressure.

I say 'sounds like the agent', because an agent by definition advocates & spins something that is so one sided, so as to create the appearance of leverage where there is in truth very litle. To sound like the 'man' or the company is only to tell the truth in this case. There are empirical facts that confirm RFAs hold very few cards, unless theyre willing to play in a different league. SEE: Jonathan Drouin, Hamonic, Trouba, et al. Whether they 'roll over' or not, time is on the Sabres side in a big way. They can play chicken all they like, but they're driving a smart car up against a big rig. ... lol not gonna come out in as good a shape.

There is a decent chance he agrees to a bridge deal in the 11th hour as well. That certainly wouldn't be 'rolling over', just the nature of the CBA and trying to hedge his long term bets. It's not really something to get offended over on the players behalf, they just simply do not hold the cards. As a fan of the Sabres I'm glad for that. I want TM to build the best team possible!

Sup w the yahoo thing?
For the names you listed there are the dougie hamilton, ROR and plenty of other rfa's who got big dollars at a young age.

The league is not what it was 15-20 years ago, when a club could lowball a young player for years.

Yes they have rfa control for a few more years on risto. Yes, they care about long term contract issues.

But to think that the best defender on your team, who just broke out with a big year, doesn't have leverage is purely foolish.

If risto wants to push it he can, he could sit out the year, or get a deal in russia. It will cost the team a lot of games this year, it will hurt his development to some degree, and it will strain his relationship with the club, but there are options available.

There is no one way street here, smart car vs truck. If there was, there would not be a delay to the deal in the first place.

For someone who claims you saw the problems in boston, you seem to think doubling down on bad risk assessment is the way to go. It's odd.

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10-07-2016, 12:20 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by sabrebuild View Post
For the names you listed there are the dougie hamilton, ROR and plenty of other rfa's who got big dollars at a young age.

The league is not what it was 15-20 years ago, when a club could lowball a young player for years.

Yes they have rfa control for a few more years on risto. Yes, they care about long term contract issues.

But to think that the best defender on your team, who just broke out with a big year, doesn't have leverage is purely foolish.

If risto wants to push it he can, he could sit out the year, or get a deal in russia. It will cost the team a lot of games this year, it will hurt his development to some degree, and it will strain his relationship with the club, but there are options available.

There is no one way street here, smart car vs truck. If there was, there would not be a delay to the deal in the first place.

For someone who claims you saw the problems in boston, you seem to think doubling down on bad risk assessment is the way to go. It's odd.
The scenario you outlined is vastly more painful for the player than the team; both in the wallet and lifestyle. Risto clearly wants to be in Buffalo and wears it on his sleeve. I never said he had 0 leverage, just that he holds very few of the cards. Granted if he actually refused even a bridge deal and held out -and the team starts poorly- he picks up a little better hand.

Boston over paid everyone, Tim Murray is nipping that early. Boston was also afyer winning a championship ...so not exactly apples to apples comparison. The Bruins are a cautionary tale though for sure. Oddly I have been able.to sell about 75% of my 4 seats already for at least face value. People love their B's in New England, even diminished

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Old
10-07-2016, 12:45 PM
  #94
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Ristolainen is ridiculously underrated:

Just saw this on Twitter, "Mark Barberio (released by MTL) would likely be an upgrade to both Risto and Gorges. But I agree Gorges is trash"

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10-07-2016, 12:55 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by ZGirgs28 View Post
Ristolainen is ridiculously underrated:

Just saw this on Twitter, "Mark Barberio (released by MTL) would likely be an upgrade to both Risto and Gorges. But I agree Gorges is trash"
Underrated by the analytics community sure, but GM's love the way he plays.

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10-07-2016, 12:57 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by ZGirgs28 View Post
Ristolainen is ridiculously underrated:

Just saw this on Twitter, "Mark Barberio (released by MTL) would likely be an upgrade to both Risto and Gorges. But I agree Gorges is trash"


I have no words, honestly.

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10-07-2016, 12:57 PM
  #97
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Underrated by the analytics community sure, but GM's love the way he plays.
Yes for sure, he also argues that QoC isn't an accurate measure, as if playing against the top line while the other plays against fourth liners doesn't matter

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10-07-2016, 01:03 PM
  #98
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Yes for sure, he also argues that QoC isn't an accurate measure, as if playing against the top line while the other plays against fourth liners doesn't matter
Well, the current QoC measures are not very good, so he has a point there.

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10-07-2016, 01:04 PM
  #99
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Well, the current QoC measures are not very good, so he has a point there.
Yes, but you also can't completely ignore it, u can't start spewing analytics and then not show the whole story

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10-07-2016, 01:54 PM
  #100
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Well, the current QoC measures are not very good, so he has a point there.
True, So maybe analytics don't tell the whole story. Great in context but in an overall game dissection it's not enough.

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