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Rasmus Ristolainen – Part 2

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Old
10-07-2016, 04:27 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Aladyyn View Post
Well, the current QoC measures are not very good, so he has a point there.
That's true, but it's a lame answer. Saying the contextual stats are less than perfect doesn't excuse entirely ignoring context.

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10-07-2016, 04:52 PM
  #102
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Risto really holds all the cards here. If he wants to just wait it out and watch the team flounder for a month, more power to him. Seems to me that's most likely at this point.

If we're really offering $4.5M as the rumor goes, sad.
4.5 is a lowball offer. Having Peca flashbacks

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10-07-2016, 04:56 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Risto really holds all the cards here. If he wants to just wait it out and watch the team flounder for a month, more power to him. Seems to me that's most likely at this point.

If we're really offering $4.5M as the rumor goes, sad.
Where did you hear this rumor of 4.5mil per?

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10-07-2016, 05:08 PM
  #104
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Where did you hear this rumor of 4.5mil per?
Andrew Peters has been saying it for a couple weeks. that "a little birdy told him"


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10-07-2016, 05:14 PM
  #105
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Oh good. So we can dismiss it immediately.

It sounded really stupid so it's source should have been obvious.

You have Murray mentioning a long time ago that "his comparables are his comparables" and everyone got 5.5ish and Andrew Peters thinks he's been offered 4.5. Cool. Imagine believing Ristolainen would show up to camp without a contract if that was on the table. Takes someone whose job was getting punched in the head to run with that story.

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10-07-2016, 05:38 PM
  #106
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Oh good. So we can dismiss it immediately.

It sounded really stupid so it's source should have been obvious.

You have Murray mentioning a long time ago that "his comparables are his comparables" and everyone got 5.5ish and Andrew Peters thinks he's been offered 4.5. Cool. Imagine believing Ristolainen would show up to camp without a contract if that was on the table. Takes someone whose job was getting punched in the head to run with that story.

sounds like a very reasonable starting point if your goal is to end in the 5's. Hence Murray saying he it would end quick if Risto "got all lovey-dovey" and elected to take the Sabres' latest offer. Implication being Risto's team was never going to accept whatever that latest offer was. I believe what Petey said to be accurate and he floated it for a reason

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10-07-2016, 10:21 PM
  #107
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sounds like a very reasonable starting point if your goal is to end in the 5's.
I believe the official term is called "widening the bargaining zone"....

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10-08-2016, 12:16 AM
  #108
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Soo we have to sign him in the next few days right?

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10-08-2016, 10:11 AM
  #109
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Soo we have to sign him in the next few days right?
No necessity over signing. In principle Buffalo doesn't have to sign anything with Risto ever again if they don't want to, they have to have left a qualifying offer though for Risto. Otherwise we would know he's a free agent right?

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10-08-2016, 10:19 AM
  #110
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If Murray really came in at 4.5, then I'd guess Risto's agent started with Ekblad's 7.5 (knowing it was unrealistic but starting high). The middle point of that is 6, but I could see Murray digging in firm at 5.5 due to comparables and Risto's agent at 6.5. If that's the gap, though, then it's not insurmountable.

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10-08-2016, 10:27 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
If Murray really came in at 4.5, then I'd guess Risto's agent started with Ekblad's 7.5 (knowing it was unrealistic but starting high). The middle point of that is 6, but I could see Murray digging in firm at 5.5 due to comparables and Risto's agent at 6.5. If that's the gap, though, then it's not insurmountable.
I really thing Murray's sticking point will be the amount of UFA years he's buying. On a 6 yr contract we're only buying ONE year of UFA status.
That's a year less than Rielly/Jones etc.
That, I would think, is the real sticking point.

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10-08-2016, 10:31 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
I really thing Murray's sticking point will be the amount of UFA years he's buying. On a 6 yr contract we're only buying ONE year of UFA status.
That's a year less than Rielly/Jones etc.
That, I would think, is the real sticking point.
That's definitely part of it. If he's only buying a year of UFA, then I could see not wanting to go past $5.5. If you're doing an eight-year deal, then $6 likely becomes more palatable.

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10-08-2016, 11:52 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
That's definitely part of it. If he's only buying a year of UFA, then I could see not wanting to go past $5.5. If you're doing an eight-year deal, then $6 likely becomes more palatable.
i would LOVE 6 million x 8 years. Risto would only be 29 when its up and the cap will presumably be much much higher and the deal will be very cap friendly for many years. i doubt he would want to sign a deal like that, he probably wants 6 million for 5 years to take advantage of the "A player may only declare himself to be an unrestricted free agent if he is over the age of 27 or has played in the league for a minimum of 7 years." This is where the team has leverage and has no reason to give the full 6 million and let him have his cake and eat it to.


Would be more than Jones, Reilly, Dougie, etc etc, with no UFA years, which TM has no reason to capitulate on and give. It might have to logically come down to a bridge deal, which has been the precedent for years in situations such as these where both parties are bargaining in good faith. That wouldnt be as terrible as some here make it sound.

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10-10-2016, 11:33 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by EichHart View Post
Soo we have to sign him in the next few days right?
I dont recall the exact date but it's in December. Unsigned by that date, he can't play at all.

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Originally Posted by JOVIS View Post
i would LOVE 6 million x 8 years. Risto would only be 29 when its up and the cap will presumably be much much higher and the deal will be very cap friendly for many years. i doubt he would want to sign a deal like that, he probably wants 6 million for 5 years to take advantage of the "A player may only declare himself to be an unrestricted free agent if he is over the age of 27 or has played in the league for a minimum of 7 years." This is where the team has leverage and has no reason to give the full 6 million and let him have his cake and eat it to.


Would be more than Jones, Reilly, Dougie, etc etc, with no UFA years, which TM has no reason to capitulate on and give. It might have to logically come down to a bridge deal, which has been the precedent for years in situations such as these where both parties are bargaining in good faith. That wouldnt be as terrible as some here make it sound.
Risto did not accrue a full season in his first ELC year so buffali has him under team control for 5 years.

I think the issue is buffalo doesn't want to pay him as a #1 until he proves it (see Myers, Tyler).

I think they are leaning toward a 3 yr bridge of around $4.5 M which brings him to 24 then give him a #1 Dman contract once he proves he is worth that.

I think hia agent is asking for a top Dman money over 8 years..like $8M or more.

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10-10-2016, 12:43 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
I dont recall the exact date but it's in December. Unsigned by that date, he can't play at all. [1]



Risto did not accrue a full season in his first ELC year so buffali has him under team control for 5 years. [2]

I think the issue is buffalo doesn't want to pay him as a #1 until he proves it (see Myers, Tyler). [3]

I think they are leaning toward a 3 yr bridge of around $4.5 M which brings him to 24 then give him a #1 Dman contract once he proves he is worth that. [4]

I think hia agent is asking for a top Dman money over 8 years..like $8M or more. [5]
[1] Correct.
[2] Correct. And I believe this is the sticking point if Mike Liut is throwing out Hamilton and Rielly as comparables.
[3] I don't know why you feel that way. Myers contract wasn't Murray's decision. Moreover, I would think Murray much prefers to have Ristolainen signed once and only once for a term which cost him less cap in the out years than if he adopted a 2-contract strategy taking Ristolainen beyond UFA eligibility. If he doesn't like the performance, he can always trade the contract.
[4] Why would they do that if it makes it more difficult to find complementary talent to round out the roster once JAck and Sam are signed to their second deals? It almost makes it imperative that all the non-core players (anyone not named Risto, Reinhart, Eichel, Okposo, O'Reilly), are on ELCs
[5] Why do you think what you think? I remember Mike Liut from when he played for the Whale and the Blues, and his career as an agent isn't marked with hyperbole and/or disproportionate bluster. He lacks any rational basis for an 8x8 contract.

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10-10-2016, 03:09 PM
  #116
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Risto shouldnt get more than Rielly or Jones and dont blame Murray for waiting this out.

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10-10-2016, 03:43 PM
  #117
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Risto did not accrue a full season in his first ELC year so buffalo has him under team control for 5 years. [2]

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
[2] Correct. And I believe this is the sticking point if Mike Liut is throwing out Hamilton and Rielly as comparables.
Reilly is at $5M, Hamilton is at $5.75M, Jones at $5.4M

If something was offered in this range I think a 6 yr contract would have easily been done. Why hasn't it been done, because I think Luit is asking for much more.

***********************


I think the issue is buffalo doesn't want to pay him as a #1 until he proves it (see Myers, Tyler). [3]


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Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
[3] I don't know why you feel that way. Myers contract wasn't Murray's decision. Moreover, I would think Murray much prefers to have Ristolainen signed once and only once for a term which cost him less cap in the out years than if he adopted a 2-contract strategy taking Ristolainen beyond UFA eligibility. If he doesn't like the performance, he can always trade the contract.

People in the organization was around with his contract being done and Murray had it on the books. I think there are some who are afraid to give him higher money like $7M or more and he doesn't pan out as a true #1.

As have been talked about there are various metrics that are questioning if he is a #1 or not.

************************************

I think they are leaning toward a 3 yr bridge of around $4.5 M which brings him to 24 then give him a #1 Dman contract once he proves he is worth that. [4]


Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
[4] Why would they do that if it makes it more difficult to find complementary talent to round out the roster once JAck and Sam are signed to their second deals? It almost makes it imperative that all the non-core players (anyone not named Risto, Reinhart, Eichel, Okposo, O'Reilly), are on ELCs
They do a 3 yr contract over a 2 yr to not have Risto, Reinhart, and Eichel all due at the same time. The other reason is if eichel is the star you figure he is in essence the individual salary cap across the team. Maybe they want a shorter term deal that goes 3-4 years then you know how he progresses and what the cap and then feel more comfortable giving him such salary.

If you have Risto on a shorter, low cap hit contract it gives you more wiggle room to go and acquire 2-3 year players and make a run like Chicago, then when Eichel, risto, and Reinhart are due bigger contracts you walk away from other higher salaried players and go with the youth.


***************************************

I think his agent is asking for a top Dman money over 8 years..like $8M or more. [5]

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_griffin View Post
[5] Why do you think what you think? I remember Mike Liut from when he played for the Whale and the Blues, and his career as an agent isn't marked with hyperbole and/or disproportionate bluster. He lacks any rational basis for an 8x8 contract.[/
As I said above.....I think he is asking for a $7M or more contract that goes 7-8 yrs while Buffalo wants a prove to me contract that is 3 yrs.


Had the initial offer been something like $5.35M over 6 years this contract would have been done very easily.

If the rumor is correct for the radio that the offer to him was $4.5M Im guessing its a shorter term contract like 3-4 years, not for 6-8 yrs.

off the top of my head I don't know the salary structure of Reillly/Jones contracts the first 2-3 yrs. I think they would be set up as gradually progressing contracts in terms of actual salary. If TM is saying Ill pay you the same salary as thise players the first 3 yrs them next contract would be the 8 yr long term contract based on what he becomes as a Dman.

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10-11-2016, 05:42 AM
  #118
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This is all sad. There guy makes murray look like a dick by showing up to training camp and showing that he wants to play and he still doesn't have a contract?? He's the teams best Dman.....Murray better get his head out of his ass

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10-11-2016, 06:40 AM
  #119
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This is all sad. There guy makes murray look like a dick by showing up to training camp and showing that he wants to play and he still doesn't have a contract?? He's the teams best Dman.....Murray better get his head out of his ass
Showing up didn't make Murray look bad.

If his agent went to the media with "We are willing to take $5Mx6 yrs and Murray turned that offer down" would make Murray look bad.

But, both sides are keeping the negotiations out of the media outside of one little birdie telling Andrew Peters the Sabres are offering $4.5M per but no chirping about the length of that offer.

And in the absence of real information, people are guessing...

I just hope that the Johnny Hockey deal leads to Lindholm or Trouba or Risto signing today. I would expect that once one of the three D signs, the others might not be far behind.

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10-11-2016, 07:07 AM
  #120
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Showing up didn't make Murray look bad.

If his agent went to the media with "We are willing to take $5Mx6 yrs and Murray turned that offer down" would make Murray look bad.

But, both sides are keeping the negotiations out of the media outside of one little birdie telling Andrew Peters the Sabres are offering $4.5M per but no chirping about the length of that offer.

And in the absence of real information, people are guessing...

I just hope that the Johnny Hockey deal leads to Lindholm or Trouba or Risto signing today. I would expect that once one of the three D signs, the others might not be far behind.
I think Risto signs today or tomorrow.... prediction: 3 years 4.6ish per, or 2 years 4.0/4.5. since Liut has been presumably aiming high , i doubt they'll accept something like 6x5millon. i think johnny hockey signing for under 7 sets the bar for all the other RFAs (except Kucherov) to be under 6.75. cuz cmon, he was best player on team north america, and its johnny HOCKEY

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10-11-2016, 07:41 AM
  #121
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I'll throw my hat in the speculation ring...

I think Risto/Agent have been aiming very high all along.

I think Murray is likely in the Reilly 5. 0 range...

I think Murray is definitely ready to go to the Jones 5.4 range...

I think Murray would stretch to the Hamilton 5.75 range...

What I suspect is that Risto's agent hasn't budged from the 6.5 range.

I do not expect a bridge deal

I expect a deal in the 5.75 range over the full 8 year term allowed.

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10-11-2016, 07:54 AM
  #122
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I'll throw my hat in the speculation ring...

I think Risto/Agent have been aiming very high all along.

I think Murray is likely in the Reilly 5. 0 range...

I think Murray is definitely ready to go to the Jones 5.4 range...

I think Murray would stretch to the Hamilton 5.75 range...

What I suspect is that Risto's agent hasn't budged from the 6.5 range.

I do not expect a bridge deal

I expect a deal in the 5.75 range over the full 8 year term allowed.
Before or after the season starts?

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10-11-2016, 08:24 AM
  #123
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I'll throw my hat in the speculation ring...

I think Risto/Agent have been aiming very high all along.

I think Murray is likely in the Reilly 5. 0 range...

I think Murray is definitely ready to go to the Jones 5.4 range...

I think Murray would stretch to the Hamilton 5.75 range...

What I suspect is that Risto's agent hasn't budged from the 6.5 range.

I do not expect a bridge deal

I expect a deal in the 5.75 range over the full 8 year term allowed.
This makes a lot of sense. If he signed Thursday morning could he play Thursday night?
But yea, I think the fact he only has 2yrs of accrued service means this deal make a lot of sense.

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10-11-2016, 08:42 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by varano View Post
This is all sad. There guy makes murray look like a dick by showing up to training camp and showing that he wants to play and he still doesn't have a contract?? He's the teams best Dman.....Murray better get his head out of his ass


^ says the Leafs fan who has and had oh such a great GM running that clown show.



I'm sticking with (once it gets done) ... 8 year/50+ mil. or somewhere pretty close.

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10-11-2016, 08:55 AM
  #125
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As best we can tell, Ristolainen and Lindholm are no longer seeking north of $6 million a year and perhaps open to something in the $5 million to $6 million range, with an obvious preference for the higher side of that million-dollar range, no less than $5.5 million.

But it appears Buffalo and Anaheim want to toe closer to the Rielly deal of $5 million, which might suggest the two defencemen are perhaps at least $500,000 a year apart from their clubs. On a six-year deal, that's a $3 million swing.
http://www.tsn.ca/clock-ticking-on-g...gents-1.582968

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