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b's undefeated w/lapointe

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10-20-2003, 12:20 PM
  #1
neelynugs
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b's undefeated w/lapointe

say what you want about the guy not earning his paycheck through goals and assists, but if you really feel that marty isn't a huge part of this team, guess again. the boys look up to him immensely, and his character and heart are top notch. 3-0 with lapointe. 0-1-2 without him. do the math.

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10-20-2003, 12:25 PM
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The two aren't necessarily related.

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10-20-2003, 12:33 PM
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Jeff from Maine
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Interesting

Interesting.

An even BETTER deal is Grosek....3-0-1 with him 0-1-1 without!

Much lower salary and just about the same success level

Later

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10-20-2003, 12:34 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonGrl819
The two aren't necessarily related.
I'll take "disagree" for $100, Alex. For all his deficiencies, Marty lays the lumber to people -- this team needs that example being set for them.

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10-20-2003, 12:37 PM
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And since the demotion of PJ STOCK

Since the demotion of Stock and Huml, I have won 252.35 total in sports select betting..

Coincidence?

Yah...


I wouldnt put much Stock in Lapointes contributions either..

If anything, I would suggest the "knuble in the arse" that the first line has..

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10-20-2003, 12:41 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfbruin
I'll take "disagree" for $100, Alex. For all his deficiencies, Marty lays the lumber to people -- this team needs that example being set for them.
Is Lapointe the only factor/variable that has changed?

No.

Therefore, you can't say we've been playing well just because Lapointe's back.

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10-20-2003, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfbruin
I'll take "disagree" for $100, Alex. For all his deficiencies, Marty lays the lumber to people -- this team needs that example being set for them.
On Rolstons PP goal the other night that tied it up....or right after the PP it was Marty Lapointe that was right in front of the goalie causing the screen.

Unfortunately there are some people (on this board and otherwise) who arent sharp enough to pick up on such nuances and simply refer to a stat sheet to judge a players worth.

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10-20-2003, 12:56 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine
Interesting.

An even BETTER deal is Grosek....3-0-1 with him 0-1-1 without!

Much lower salary and just about the same success level

Later
Yea.....and their ice time is about equal too...right?

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10-20-2003, 01:00 PM
  #9
Jeff from Maine
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Relax!

Jeesh...RELAX!

You dont have to take things so seriously!

My point is that to say that Lapointe is the reason for us being 3-0-0 is very shortsighted.

It MAY be a trickle down thing....

* Guys who obviously dont belong in the NHL (Stock and Huml) are now gone

* Guys who are not ready are not playing (Samuelsson)

* Guys can play in roles that better suit them (Knuble, Rolston)

Lapointe IS a part of it...but so are guys like Grosek, McCarthy and others.

Later

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10-20-2003, 02:17 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine
Jeesh...RELAX!

You dont have to take things so seriously!

My point is that to say that Lapointe is the reason for us being 3-0-0 is very shortsighted.

It MAY be a trickle down thing....

* Guys who obviously dont belong in the NHL (Stock and Huml) are now gone

* Guys who are not ready are not playing (Samuelsson)

* Guys can play in roles that better suit them (Knuble, Rolston)

Lapointe IS a part of it...but so are guys like Grosek, McCarthy and others.

Later
Jeff, I find it a bit frustrating how you play favorites. I dont necessarily think that Lapointe has had that big of a factor, but your above post is a great example of you trying to throw praise to one of your favorites when he really hasnt done crap. Michal Grosek has had very little to do with any success this team has had, but yet you find a way to sneak his name in there because he is a favorite of yours. Much the same when you started a thread on Potvin (who I know you like) after his very good performance but the day after Raycroft plays on his head all night against the Stars you simply pooh pooh his performance by saying he only had to make a couple tough saves when anyone who saw the game saw him steal a game for us. I guess my point is that when you like a player, you find a reason to talk him up, but when you dont like a player even if they do well you proceed with cautious optimism ala Raycroft and Bergeron.

Just frustrating, thats all.

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10-20-2003, 02:29 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonGrl819
Is Lapointe the only factor/variable that has changed?

No.

Therefore, you can't say we've been playing well just because Lapointe's back.
Well, technically I can say just about anything I want to

I do think Marty has a positive effect on the team even though he can't shoot his way out of a paper bag. I do think the team plays more aggresively with him in the lineup. He is the closest thing to a playoff tested vet that this team has -- the effect when a guy who's "been there" speaks up in the room cannot be discounted.

And now that I think of it, what other factor/variable has changed since he returned?

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10-20-2003, 02:32 PM
  #12
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Reunion of the Knuble-Thornton-Muzz line, Sammy on a line with Green, etc...

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10-20-2003, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfbruin
Well, technically I can say just about anything I want to

I do think Marty has a positive effect on the team even though he can't shoot his way out of a paper bag. I do think the team plays more aggresively with him in the lineup. He is the closest thing to a playoff tested vet that this team has -- the effect when a guy who's "been there" speaks up in the room cannot be discounted.

And now that I think of it, what other factor/variable has changed since he returned?
I'm a Lapointe guy....I still love the way he beat the snot out of Brendan Witt. This is Lapointe to me- great teammate (will stick up for anyone- will come looking with shark eyes if you screw with one of his teammates); will hit hard, smoke the defense on the forecheck; add in 15-20 goals and 40-50 points. I think as far as dollar value he's way overpaid- but he's getting back to being a very valuable player like his days in Detroit. He can play for my team anyday- not at $5 mil but atleast half that. Hey, the contracts done so I'm looking at the guy and I like him on this team- he has some balls; which reminds me, this team is pretty tough overall and he's at the top of the list.

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10-20-2003, 03:36 PM
  #14
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Bruwinz

Bruwinz,

Respectfully, you know very little about me

You say that you know I like Potvin????

I have been vocal about my displeasure for signing Potvin. I was one who was VERY much AGAINST that signing.

So, how you come up with that statement, I dont know. I dont like Potvin. But I DO feel that its best to ease Raycroft into the NHL game. And I also believe in the idea that if you sign a guy for a purpose (and by all accounts, Potvin was signed to be the #1), you play that guy in that role UNTIL he PROVES that he isnt the right man for the job! And in this case, I simply believe that Potvin IS playing, WITHOUT QUESTION, like a true #1 goalie. Raycroft is as well....but he is in his first full year with the team. I think it benefits the team most by playing the vet and having the kid get 30 or so games in a less pressure filled manner.

As far as how I feel about various players...I am not enamored with Grosek, as you appear to want to paint the picture.

What I am enamored with are guys who selflessly play a style that shows obvious toughness and heart, with a decent amount of skill.

I like guys like Lapointe, Grosek, McCarthy.

Bud, I like you reading you and all....but you take some serious liberties with things that I, and others post.

A lot of assumptions, that are false, are made by you. I do the same, so dont think this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

We are quite similar, if you really think about it. I am passionate about the type of player I spoke about above, and have no problem sticking up for them.

You are very pro-management and dont hesitate to rip guys that you dont like...Billy Guerin comes to mind immediately

We post in much the same way....just viewing things from the opposite end of the spectrum.

BTW...regarding Grosek....Sully plays the guys who he feels have EARNED the right to play. His reward for good work is a well known factor in his ice time determinations. Judging from this tendency, and the fact that since sitting out the 1st 2 games, Grosek has played the rest....I would take that to mean that Sullivan feels Grosek is doing his job just fine! Otherwise, Huml or Stock would still be up...and Samuelsson would certainly be getting those shifts

Later

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10-20-2003, 03:56 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine
Bruwinz,

Respectfully, you know very little about me

You say that you know I like Potvin????

I have been vocal about my displeasure for signing Potvin. I was one who was VERY much AGAINST that signing.

So, how you come up with that statement, I dont know. I dont like Potvin. But I DO feel that its best to ease Raycroft into the NHL game. And I also believe in the idea that if you sign a guy for a purpose (and by all accounts, Potvin was signed to be the #1), you play that guy in that role UNTIL he PROVES that he isnt the right man for the job! And in this case, I simply believe that Potvin IS playing, WITHOUT QUESTION, like a true #1 goalie. Raycroft is as well....but he is in his first full year with the team. I think it benefits the team most by playing the vet and having the kid get 30 or so games in a less pressure filled manner.

As far as how I feel about various players...I am not enamored with Grosek, as you appear to want to paint the picture.

What I am enamored with are guys who selflessly play a style that shows obvious toughness and heart, with a decent amount of skill.

I like guys like Lapointe, Grosek, McCarthy.

Bud, I like you reading you and all....but you take some serious liberties with things that I, and others post.

A lot of assumptions, that are false, are made by you. I do the same, so dont think this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

We are quite similar, if you really think about it. I am passionate about the type of player I spoke about above, and have no problem sticking up for them.

You are very pro-management and dont hesitate to rip guys that you dont like...Billy Guerin comes to mind immediately

We post in much the same way....just viewing things from the opposite end of the spectrum.

BTW...regarding Grosek....Sully plays the guys who he feels have EARNED the right to play. His reward for good work is a well known factor in his ice time determinations. Judging from this tendency, and the fact that since sitting out the 1st 2 games, Grosek has played the rest....I would take that to mean that Sullivan feels Grosek is doing his job just fine! Otherwise, Huml or Stock would still be up...and Samuelsson would certainly be getting those shifts

Later




Jeff, I do mean to be third man in here. You need to calm it down a little with the all knowledable poster bit. Sometimes it is best just to nod your head and ignore something. Every disagreement doesn't mandate a pissing match. If you disagree with someone try ignoring their post. Soapboxing is way overrated. You do know your stuff though, but more people would listen to what you have to say if you didn't speak like you were reciting the word of god.

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Old
10-20-2003, 05:48 PM
  #16
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well, i certainly didn't mean that lapointe was the ONLY reason. but give the guy some credit- he's playing tough hockey, standing in the trenches, taking abuse, going into the corners, fighting, sticking up for his teammates. it's just nice to see him back in the lineup, and hopefully people will stop whining about his paycheck, and start focusing on what he's doing for the team.

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10-20-2003, 06:52 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine
Bruwinz,

Respectfully, you know very little about me

You say that you know I like Potvin????

I have been vocal about my displeasure for signing Potvin. I was one who was VERY much AGAINST that signing.

So, how you come up with that statement, I dont know. I dont like Potvin. But I DO feel that its best to ease Raycroft into the NHL game. And I also believe in the idea that if you sign a guy for a purpose (and by all accounts, Potvin was signed to be the #1), you play that guy in that role UNTIL he PROVES that he isnt the right man for the job! And in this case, I simply believe that Potvin IS playing, WITHOUT QUESTION, like a true #1 goalie. Raycroft is as well....but he is in his first full year with the team. I think it benefits the team most by playing the vet and having the kid get 30 or so games in a less pressure filled manner.

As far as how I feel about various players...I am not enamored with Grosek, as you appear to want to paint the picture.

What I am enamored with are guys who selflessly play a style that shows obvious toughness and heart, with a decent amount of skill.

I like guys like Lapointe, Grosek, McCarthy.

Bud, I like you reading you and all....but you take some serious liberties with things that I, and others post.

A lot of assumptions, that are false, are made by you. I do the same, so dont think this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

We are quite similar, if you really think about it. I am passionate about the type of player I spoke about above, and have no problem sticking up for them.

You are very pro-management and dont hesitate to rip guys that you dont like...Billy Guerin comes to mind immediately

We post in much the same way....just viewing things from the opposite end of the spectrum.

BTW...regarding Grosek....Sully plays the guys who he feels have EARNED the right to play. His reward for good work is a well known factor in his ice time determinations. Judging from this tendency, and the fact that since sitting out the 1st 2 games, Grosek has played the rest....I would take that to mean that Sullivan feels Grosek is doing his job just fine! Otherwise, Huml or Stock would still be up...and Samuelsson would certainly be getting those shifts

Later
Jeff...I know enough about you...dont you worry!

First, it is common knowledge that you are an outspoken advocate of Michal Grosek and have gone out of your way to praise him.

Second, you are right, you are not a big Potvin guy, you are more of an anti -Raycroft guy....or at least that has been the tone of your posts all summer...so you take the side of Potvin. Thats fine, I think Potvin has done fine, but it is clear to me who is the better netminder.

It also seems to me that you are more pessimistic on Bergeron than most. You criticized the quality of his assists the other night while failing to realize the value in a kid who can make the simple, smart play and not try to do too much. Being in the right place at the right time...etc. Surely as an ex collegiate player you *should* know the value in this. I am willing to bet he is not your type of player so he is going to go above and beyond what a guy like Grosek does to impress you........oh wait...news release....he already has gone above and beyond what Grosek does!!!!!!!!!!!


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10-21-2003, 02:47 AM
  #18
Jeff from Maine
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187ondaAVS

Hey 187,

Good to see a post from a "new" guy.

FWIW, I dont care if people listen to me and care about what I say here. Fact is, I only put faith in what a small number of posters say.

So how could I care about whether posters agree with me?

All I want is to be quoted ACCURATELY. Thats all. Thats a simple request.

If you dont believe me or agree with what I say...thats all good. There is MUCH here that I dont agree with.

Later

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10-21-2003, 02:58 AM
  #19
Jeff from Maine
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Hey Bruwinz,

Whats up bud?

I dont want this to be a confrontational thing here...you and I have been pretty decent posting "rivals" for some time and I think we bring out the best/worst in each other

That said...YES, I AM an advocate of Groseks. I like his fire, aggression and ability to play a versatile role.

So, YES, I do like seeing him in the line up. Were they to replace him on the roster, I wouldnt mourn however, because he is VERY replaceble.

As far as our tending is concerned, I dont have a "favorite". I simply want WHOEVER the Bruins place between the pipes, to be the BEST tender that we have.

And right now, I believe that Potvin is our best. He is floppier than Raycroft, but his experience and communication more than make up for an technical differences. And besides, their play/results have been virtually identical.

I am not pro-Potvin, nor an I anti-Andy. I think Raycroft will be the better of the 2 in a year or so, but as for th here and now...I have much more confidence in Potvin bringing us playoff success than I do in Raycroft.

Now...BERGERON!

Honestly, I dont have a CLUE as to how you can criticise m for my views on this kid! I have said REPEATEDLY that the BEAUTY about his gam is his ability to play FUNDAMENTALLY sound hockey!

And that is the very thing that you criticse me of not seeing!

I think that his play without the puck (stick on the ice, head up, looking for seams) is a very strong skill.

He is not at all flashy, nor should he be at this stage of the game.

But, I do NOT agree with the majority here who seem to think that because he has a few points now, that he should suddenly be annointed opur 2nd line savior!

The fact that he is a 3rd/4th liner, IMHO, plays a BIG role in his point accumulation!

Sure, he could play with Sammy and Marty and net 10 points in the next 8 games.

But how would he fare over the LONG haul?

I wont hom developed INTELLIGENTLY...NOT the manner in which a guy like Jurcina is being handled...nor do I want him placed into the fire and pressure of 2nd line duty.


As far as his not being the type of plater that I like....I already told you what type of player I like.

YET, its also common knowledge that I am a fan of Stumpel and his game. And in another post, I compared Bergeron to Stumpel!

I thought it was obvious in that comparison that I was saying that I like Bergeron.

I simply am not annointing him as the Next Great One....as many here already have!

Later

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Old
10-21-2003, 03:03 AM
  #20
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Jeff that "new" guy has been here since March 2002. There are alot more lurkers here then you think. Reading always reading. Some people just don't like to post. I for one like watching you and Bruinz20 go at it. I just like passion concerning my favorite team, even though I don't agree with either of you. Don't you both know Donato is the glue that holds this team together!!!

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10-21-2003, 12:59 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prdbsfan
Jeff that "new" guy has been here since March 2002. There are alot more lurkers here then you think. Reading always reading. Some people just don't like to post. I for one like watching you and Bruinz20 go at it. I just like passion concerning my favorite team, even though I don't agree with either of you. Don't you both know Donato is the glue that holds this team together!!!
I would say that Jeff is my favorite poster to drop the gloves with and usually the mods dont pull a Kevin Collins on us and break it up too soon!

Anyway.....I like to consider myself Jay Miller to Jeff being my Gord Donnelly....every now and then he gets a few shots in, but I always take the battle!!!!

Just kidding Jeff!!

Jeff, as far as your post, I hear you loud and clear now, but honestly it is tough to read that in your preceeding posts. Some players have to do so much to impress you while others do a lot and you proceed with them with much caution. Basically I would like to see the optimism you have with Grosek carry over to Patrice Bergeron!

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10-21-2003, 02:21 PM
  #22
Jeff from Maine
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Another Thing About Me

Another thing about me Bruwinz, which I am sure that you have noticed is this...

I am VERY tough on rookies, and most "young" players in general.

I will generally give more benefit of the doubt to a Grosek, McInnis or Donato than many here will, because I see the effort these guys put forth and appreciate what they do. Not saying that others here dont, but guys like that tend to be the whipping boys...no flash, low statistical production but they take the blame for the losses.

But one thing about guys like that is this...they are in general STEADIER and more reliable than the rooks! Sure, they dont have the upside or the week or 2 of high productivity that you`ll see from a rookie or young guy. But on the oppsoite side of the spectrum, they generally dont have the lows that the young kids have!

I personally think that most teams NEED a guy like Grosek, McInnis or Donato on their clubs! Guys that will play ANY role you give them and NEVER ***** when that role includes a week in the pressbox!

I also think that many kids are mishandled by their clubs. Bergeron is an example of a guy who appears to be handled correctly. Jillson could well have been mishandled by the Sharks. And Jurcina appears to be getting mishandled here!

I tend to be very cautious with kids. I dont get too high with their successes nor 2 low with the troubles.

And it pains the hell out of me to see all of this hype of Bergeron.

Should he unfortunately hit a skid and stop producing for a period of time, he is going to be labeled a BUST quickly by those who have illogically elevated him to Super Star in Waiting status!

This type of early hype is often the kiss of death for a young kid. Bergeron appears to have a good head on his shoulders, so hopefully he wil be okay.

Later

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10-21-2003, 04:29 PM
  #23
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Jeff, dont get me wrong, I dont mind Grosek...he is fine for what he is. But by no means do I like what Marty McInnis brings as a player. Horrific inconsistency when you know the talent to succeed is there is far too frustrating for me.

As far as Donato...I appreciate how he evolved as a player. He knows his role and what he has to do to stay in the league....many guys cant make that adjustment. As a fourth liner he does a good job. He can skate his shift and not look like a buffoon like Oliwa did. I hope by the end of the season that a rookie is playing well enough to take his spot just for simple experience, but so far Donato does what we need on the fourth line.

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