HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

OT: Fitness and Nutrition Part II

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-06-2016, 08:23 PM
  #1
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 40,945
vCash: 500
OT: Fitness and Nutrition Part II

Third set begins here...

__________________
- 40,000 & counting...
Lafleurs Guy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2016, 08:26 PM
  #2
WhiskeySeven
Retired. Bye.
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 22,409
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I mean, for this program, I'd swap Pull Ups instead of Pulldowns. I'd do dips and push ups in your Push days. I'd swap Back squat and RDL with Front Squats and Good Mornings.
I can't do proper pullups, really sucks - figured to work on my lats and shoulders and then add them in. Nowhere to do dips in my gym. I freaking HATE front squats the tendons in my fingers ache like crazy trying to hold it in place. I can give it a shot though, fine. Good mornings scare me, but are they really better than RDLs?

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2016, 09:17 PM
  #3
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 32,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I can't do proper pullups, really sucks - figured to work on my lats and shoulders and then add them in. Nowhere to do dips in my gym. I freaking HATE front squats the tendons in my fingers ache like crazy trying to hold it in place. I can give it a shot though, fine. Good mornings scare me, but are they really better than RDLs?
Look around your gym, you might have a gym with a pull up machine. If not, see if you can find a band. If nothing, I'd suggest some type of pulling row exercise.

You can do dips off a bench, just careful with your shoulder position, make sure you do not collapse forward, don't shrug, and keep elbows facing backward.

Front Squats. Do them. I mean, unless you have major limitations holding you back. I'd have to see though. When my clients tell me their fingers hurt in front squats I usually laugh in their face. So..I guess that answers it

As for Good Mornings, I find they recruit your hamstrings better, but it could just be a personal preference and seeing how you're already doing deadlifts, I'd go with that.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 07:44 AM
  #4
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,389
vCash: 500
Assisted pull ups are a pet peeve of mine also... (Banded or with a machine)

The progress you make with those is waaay lesser than with negative pull ups.

For the front rack:


Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 07:48 AM
  #5
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,523
vCash: 500
I was able to build enough strength to do good wipe grip pull ups by negative pull ups and later by putting on foot on a chair and using that for a little help.

Pull ups are one of the workouts where I feel it the most. I love them.

waffledave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 07:57 AM
  #6
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 40,945
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Assisted pull ups are a pet peeve of mine also... (Banded or with a machine)

The progress you make with those is waaay lesser than with negative pull ups.

For the front rack:
I've read that in a few places. About a month ago I decided to focus on chinups (easier than Pull Ups to start) and started doing them pretty regularly. Could barely do one to start and now I can do six. Once I get to being able to do ten then I'll start with pullups. Right now I can do one pull up and maybe struggle to get to two.

Lafleurs Guy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 07:58 AM
  #7
WhiskeySeven
Retired. Bye.
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 22,409
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I was able to build enough strength to do good wipe grip pull ups by negative pull ups and later by putting on foot on a chair and using that for a little help.

Pull ups are one of the workouts where I feel it the most. I love them.
What's the best way to do negatives? How slow should I go down?

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 08:07 AM
  #8
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,389
vCash: 500
How slow CAN you go ?

Between 8 seconds and the most you can.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 08:12 AM
  #9
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 32,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Assisted pull ups are a pet peeve of mine also... (Banded or with a machine)

The progress you make with those is waaay lesser than with negative pull ups.
Well that depends, and you can do negative assisted pull ups. If you have someone who's tempo is 1 during the eccentric part, well then get some assistance and up the tempo to 4 sec. And unlike pure negatives where you jump up, with assistance allows them to also feel the concentric part and how they should engage various muscles.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 08:13 AM
  #10
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 32,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
How slow CAN you go ?

Between 8 seconds and the most you can.
I think you have an unrealistic view of what beginners can and cannot do.

The people who cannot do one pull up won't be able to hold an 8 second negative pull up, let alone over multiple reps. I have never seen this in my 7 years of coaching.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 08:21 AM
  #11
WhiskeySeven
Retired. Bye.
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 22,409
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
How slow CAN you go ?

Between 8 seconds and the most you can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think you have an unrealistic view of what beginners can and cannot do.

The people who cannot do one pull up won't be able to hold an 8 second negative pull up, let alone over multiple reps. I have never seen this in my 7 years of coaching.
When I was doing negatives, I found my balance at around 3-5 seconds. Hated doing them though, seemed rather useless.

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 08:25 AM
  #12
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think you have an unrealistic view of what beginners can and cannot do.

The people who cannot do one pull up won't be able to hold an 8 second negative pull up, let alone over multiple reps. I have never seen this in my 7 years of coaching.
W7 isn't a beginner though and it's exactly why I ask.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 08:27 AM
  #13
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
What's the best way to do negatives? How slow should I go down?
I used to just try and go as slow as possible. When I started I would do sets of 6-8 negatives and it was very difficult. But the strength will come. Personally I like assisted a little better, having a foot on a chair or something to give a little help. That way you feel the pull part as well, instead of jumping.

waffledave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 08:32 AM
  #14
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 40,945
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
When I was doing negatives, I found my balance at around 3-5 seconds. Hated doing them though, seemed rather useless.
My opinion: start with chin ups. They are easier. It will still work your back and it incorporates the biceps more so you'll get that benefit.

Get a bar for your doorway at home. Cheap and you can use it all the time. Do two chin ups at a time several times throughout the day. You'll get better quick.

Lafleurs Guy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 08:40 AM
  #15
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 32,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
When I was doing negatives, I found my balance at around 3-5 seconds. Hated doing them though, seemed rather useless.
How many pull up can you do? One? Two?

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 08:53 AM
  #16
WhiskeySeven
Retired. Bye.
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 22,409
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
W7 isn't a beginner though and it's exactly why I ask.
My upper-body sucks. I know theory*, but for all intents and purposes I suck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
How many pull up can you do? One? Two?
0.5


Last edited by WhiskeySeven: 10-07-2016 at 08:56 AM. Reason: *A decent amount of it anyway. Not at expert in any way.
WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 08:58 AM
  #17
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 32,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
W7 isn't a beginner though and it's exactly why I ask.
Well..
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
0.5


I would work on pulling row exercise. Rings, TRX, barbell, to start developing a bit of pulling strength, along with assisted work.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2016, 09:15 AM
  #18
WhiskeySeven
Retired. Bye.
 
WhiskeySeven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 22,409
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well..



I would work on pulling row exercise. Rings, TRX, barbell, to start developing a bit of pulling strength, along with assisted work.
Exactly what I'm working on in my pull days. Sweet.

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2016, 12:36 AM
  #19
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 32,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Exactly what I'm working on in my pull days. Sweet.
Once you can start actually doing pull ups, use the cluster method. It's the best one based on my personal experience. Do 1.1.1 pull ups, rest about 10-15 sec between each pull up. This allows you to do 3 pull ups per set thanks to the rest between reps as opposed to probably struggling to do 2 pull ups.
Cluster method is great to build strength and too underused or unknown.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2016, 12:23 PM
  #20
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 40,945
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Once you can start actually doing pull ups, use the cluster method. It's the best one based on my personal experience. Do 1.1.1 pull ups, rest about 10-15 sec between each pull up. This allows you to do 3 pull ups per set thanks to the rest between reps as opposed to probably struggling to do 2 pull ups.
Cluster method is great to build strength and too underused or unknown.
No love for the chin up method? I'm progressing pretty quickly there. I'm almost at 7 and have only been focusing on chins for a while now. You're working mostly the same muscles, just utilizing the biceps more.

Lafleurs Guy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2016, 12:48 PM
  #21
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 32,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
No love for the chin up method? I'm progressing pretty quickly there. I'm almost at 7 and have only been focusing on chins for a while now. You're working mostly the same muscles, just utilizing the biceps more.
Well, a chin up is technically a pull up, just different grip, so I don't particularly mind.
Here's a great article about it:
https://breakingmuscle.com/strength-...n-and-analysis

I coach Crossfit, we do a lot of pronated grip work on the bars so I'm just used to it.
Cluster method is great for building strength regardless. You can use it with Chins too, and it's not just for beginners. Great way to get passed plateaus.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2016, 01:02 PM
  #22
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 40,945
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Well, a chin up is technically a pull up, just different grip, so I don't particularly mind.
Here's a great article about it:
https://breakingmuscle.com/strength-...n-and-analysis

I coach Crossfit, we do a lot of pronated grip work on the bars so I'm just used to it.
Cluster method is great for building strength regardless. You can use it with Chins too, and it's not just for beginners. Great way to get passed plateaus.
Aren't chins the best bicep exercise you can do?

Lafleurs Guy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2016, 01:33 PM
  #23
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 32,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Aren't chins the best bicep exercise you can do?
Well..not sure if it's the best exercise but it's definitely a good one.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2016, 03:02 PM
  #24
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Aren't chins the best bicep exercise you can do?
Pretty hard to circle one exercise to call it "best" for any muscle.

Since I've started training it was always about having big arms... I've tried every freaking thing around and after a decade of semi serious to serious lifting, I'm at a mediocre 16 inches... And to be honest ? I don't give a damn anymore I haven't done a single curl or anything close to it in something like a year and they're pretty much the same as they always were. My triceps got bigger since I've been following powerlifting programs, so they're still pretty much the same size.

Kinda does suck, because the first thing people look for when they know you're so intense about fitness is your Biceps... and when I have a semi loose Tshirt I look basically like a normal dude.

I get the "All that effort for those small arms ?" a lot. (Breaks my heart every damn time.)

Do you employ chin ups as your "Core" lift on arm day ? That's perfect, IMO.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-08-2016, 03:08 PM
  #25
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
 
Mrb1p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Citizen of the world
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think you have an unrealistic view of what beginners can and cannot do.

The people who cannot do one pull up won't be able to hold an 8 second negative pull up, let alone over multiple reps. I have never seen this in my 7 years of coaching.
I don't think I'm being unrealistic, really. I did think he was stronger than .5 pull up, though.

Mrb1p is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.