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Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM (Part II)

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Old
03-03-2017, 01:19 PM
  #101
henchman24
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I don't think Holden would have been any cheaper. His contract is below average for even #5D, let alone one that played as many minutes as he did. He really had plenty of numbers to back up that contract (and for the stats geeks, he had some of the best numbers on the team).

There was one really telling thing to me in the interview last night on Altitude. I won't get this word for word, but basically Sakic said that nobody really called him on his players. He shouldn't be waiting around for people to call him on everything, he should be aggressive in talking with teams trying to dump those players. Hell, Yzerman was aggressively shopping a player that wasn't fully his to complete his moves. Sakic couldn't be bothered to sell his own players.

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03-03-2017, 02:02 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I'm all for treating players well, but Sakic has been very buddy buddy.

Hejda get to decide if he wants to be traded or not. Stastny was never forced to make any kind of decision, being allowed to walk for free. Iginla getting traded for nothing (understandable). McLeod get to decide if he wants to be traded or not.

You can't have a players mindset as a GM. I think Sakic does.

When Shattenkirk didn't want to re-sign, he was gone and the team gets assets for him. Even if they are in the playoff race. That's how you should act.
The Chicago Blackhawks have two more 2017 draft picks than Colorado.

I agree that Sakic thinks like a player. I think Roy did the same thing. I've made this comment several times over the past few years, and my point of view was not generally welcomed with enthusiasm.

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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
There was one really telling thing to me in the interview last night on Altitude. I won't get this word for word, but basically Sakic said that nobody really called him on his players. He shouldn't be waiting around for people to call him on everything, he should be aggressive in talking with teams trying to dump those players. Hell, Yzerman was aggressively shopping a player that wasn't fully his to complete his moves. Sakic couldn't be bothered to sell his own players.
Brutal. Sakic is the management equivalent of Beauchemin/Colborne, etc. They deserve each other.

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03-03-2017, 02:22 PM
  #103
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I don't disagree but which statement was it that alluded to this? The whole we would have liked to have done more? I agree that part of leading a multi million dollar org is to be a bit of a salesman. My concern more is that we can't discern a real plan from his statements. Everything seems to go year to year.

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I agree that Sakic thinks like a player. I think Roy did the same thing. I've made this comment several times over the past few years, and my point of view was not generally welcomed with enthusiasm.
I heard an interview w/a reporter in Quebec City who described the Remparts has to stop doing everything under the table and operate like everyone else because they cracked down after Roy left and how he didn't need to keep a single draft pick because they could buy and get whatever Euro or facilitate whatever trade to get what they wanted. That was an eye opener too.


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03-03-2017, 03:03 PM
  #104
henchman24
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
I don't disagree but which statement was it that alluded to this? The whole we would have liked to have done more? I agree that part of leading a multi million dollar org is to be a bit of a salesman. My concern more is that we can't discern a real plan from his statements. Everything seems to go year to year.
https://www.nhl.com/avalanche/video/...921703?q=sakic

The statement is around a minute in.

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03-03-2017, 03:26 PM
  #105
Nalens Oga
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True and maybe gives us hope the Avs, possibly w Sakic, can turn it around in a few seasons.
John Davidson is a hockey guy with previous experience and a track-record, John Tortorello though not the best is an NHL coach with lots of experience, Kekalainen's background I'm hazy on but he had mgmt and scouting experience from well-before being hired as a GM from what I know.

They didn't hand the keys over to a bunch of noobs like we did, they gave them to guys successful at their previous jobs. Not only that but Columbus has drafted decently since their mid-2000s screw-ups.

I'm just waiting for the hammer to drop, what's it gonna take for Sakic to go? Will he resign on his own or is he gonna milk the cash cow for as long as he can. Does Kroenke Jr. have a personal e-mail address we all can spam ?

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03-03-2017, 03:28 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
https://www.nhl.com/avalanche/video/...921703?q=sakic

The statement is around a minute in.
That is a lot of waiting around then because nobody was going to come calling to us for our players unless we actively sold them. No wonder why we only did two nhl deals and opened up only one roster spot without anything in return. We have been sellers for 3 months and and roster is largely unchanged. Has he even answered anything about why Tyutin or Bourque or Grigo weren't moved ? All those guys were rumored to have interest yet they still remain. Don't tell me its because of a respect thing for Vets like Fedor and Rene lol.

Mackinnon will be ready to retire at this pace Sakic wants run things.

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03-03-2017, 03:37 PM
  #107
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Joe Sakic has literally dismantled and destroyed this team, our chances, and the time it will take to recover from his actions.

He's a shoulda, coulda, woulda GM.

He makes all the excuses in the world for not being able to make change happen. People even create excuses for him by blaming the players for his inability to sign / re-sign.

Stazz, lost for nothing. ROR, in the position where re-signing wasn't an option. Sakic claiming Matthias and Boedker weren't rentals. Roy quitting, & Bednar being brought in. So on and so forth - REGARDLESS of people's excuses, it was HIS job to make things happen, and he's failed.

We are presently 45 losses from 62 games @ a win% of 0.274 (I've literally never seen it this disgraceful), yet he is "happy with his players". He's either dillusional, or just not very bright, and lately, I'm thinking it's the latter, based upon his interviews.

One thing that frustrates me no end, is Sakic NEVER and I mean EVER considers fans, and what fans feel or want. Even when asked on Altitude, what he'd say to fans about hope going forward, his response was what he wanted, what the players wanted, and what the club wanted. I just think he's a little bit slow and simple.

Amazing player, but will go down in history as probably one of, if not THE worst GM in all of sports today. We as a fanbase need to be much, much harder on Sakic. We need to demand that the media put him on notice. I'm sick of the happy - go - lucky approach they take with him, because he's a "good guy". He needs to be held accountable here, and not one person from the fans, media, his ownership or management are doing that. We are excusing it, because we all love Super-Joe.

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03-03-2017, 03:52 PM
  #108
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Well it's obvious to me that he's totally lost at this point. To claim, weeks before the deadline, that you're sellers, and to come out of it with nothing to show is just beyond embarrassing. The deadline was a defining moment for Sakic, and he totally failed the test.


Then to come out and say "I like my players" in an interview when you're the worst team in a decade... Just wow

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03-03-2017, 04:23 PM
  #109
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Well it's obvious to me that he's totally lost at this point. To claim, weeks before the deadline, that you're sellers, and to come out of it with nothing to show is just beyond embarrassing. The deadline was a defining moment for Sakic, and he totally failed the test.


Then to come out and say "I like my players" in an interview when you're the worst team in a decade... Just wow

He seems too worried about being the bad guy at times instead of just doing his job and whats best for the future of the team. Like with Iggy I get you want to ask him where he might want to go, but that is it , but how do you not even get a 7th out of the deal if the conditions for the 4th weren't met lol. He can't seriously believe that the kings wouldn't have done the deal if it had to be a 7th instead after it was all said and done. Why on earth does he feel he needs to ask every vet if it is ok if he trades them.

He will have a good reputation for treating his vets great and im sure will help with signing of old guys, but this isn't a retirement Home you are running Joe.

Can't fault him for being a good, nice guy, but if this team remains largely the same with new but the same type of crap FA players filling the bottom roles he needs to find a new hobby.

I wasn't on the Fire Joe bandwagon and had faith in him. I am not even mad that we didn't get a bunch of 5th round picks or w.e. Just his comments in these recent interviews don't give much hope in his abilities or assessment in what really needs to happen and that is change. As a fan I just want to see some direction and someone taking charge and leading this franchise.

Sakic is one of the greatest leaders in hockey ever, but he is just out of his element in the management side of the game. I think he would have better use in other parts of the organization behind the scenes that doesn't directly impact the team.

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03-03-2017, 05:04 PM
  #110
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Do people actually see Sakic stepping down or getting fired after this season? Any other team and after a season like this I'd automatically assume there'd be major changes, but with us who knows....

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03-03-2017, 05:56 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Foppberg View Post
Do people actually see Sakic stepping down or getting fired after this season? Any other team and after a season like this I'd automatically assume there'd be major changes, but with us who knows....
It's gonna probably be after next season if he doesn't step down this one.

The problem is that a good chunk of our fan base are casual plebs. The attendance numbers are still passable for a US market despite the ticket prices and there's not much discontent, a lot still support Sakic (not on HF obviously but casual fans aren't on here as much). There's no fire Sakic chants or anything of the sort.

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03-03-2017, 06:02 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
https://www.nhl.com/avalanche/video/...921703?q=sakic

The statement is around a minute in.
Gotcha, yeah. Reactive, not proactive.

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03-03-2017, 06:10 PM
  #113
Nalens Oga
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^ I've been saying that since the start of the season. You could see it before in how he didn't fire Roy till Roy himself stepped down or how Zadorov was literally the only good player he brought in via trade/signing to be on the roster at the start of the season that you want going forward until he picked up Nieto/Barbeiro (or Compher now but these are small pieces). How do you manage to bring in only one good player in 4 years via signing/trade.

Sakic and Chevaldayoff in Wpg are two very passive GM's. Chevaldayoff has had some good drafting/developing on his team so he's gotten by plus he's decent at making depth signings, Sakic is just terrible all-around.

He hasn't solved the top 4 dman problem until they fall into his lap via free agency, he hasn't improved the winger depth after Landeskog but he had Rantanen thanks to his scouts, and we're gonna soon find out how screwed we are in the goalie department. When Varlamov is (further) exposed as being done and Pickard can't handle starting duties then we're gonna have goalies will be our next crisis. Do you want him solving that after what he gave up to get back-up Berra?

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03-03-2017, 06:52 PM
  #114
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People thinking that Sakic will be fired are disconnected from reality. You should review how the Kroenke's have handled things in the past, not just with the Avs, but with their other franchises like the Rams.

How many losing seasons did Jeff Fisher have before the Kroenkes were essentially forced to fire him.

Maybe he steps down in the future, it will be his choice.

His replacement will come from within the organization. I think that is fairly certain.

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03-03-2017, 07:38 PM
  #115
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the thing that pisses me off is knowing that after this brutal season, one of the worst in the league's history, no one will be fired and hold accountable for the disaster. MAYBE Bednar but everything else will continue as it is. this shouldn't be allowed and someone (Kroenke) should step up to put an end in this clown show. but he won't. damn.

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03-03-2017, 08:45 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Nalens Oga View Post
It's gonna probably be after next season if he doesn't step down this one.

The problem is that a good chunk of our fan base are casual plebs. The attendance numbers are still passable for a US market despite the ticket prices and there's not much discontent, a lot still support Sakic (not on HF obviously but casual fans aren't on here as much). There's no fire Sakic chants or anything of the sort.
100%. The media & the fans don't press Joe Sakic, so they have basically become irrelevant. Sakic needs a dose of reality, and as silly as it sounds, maybe something like that from the fans @ Pepsi Center (while he's sitting next to Joshy boy) will finally show him & the club that enough is enough.

Our team has won 8 from 30 damned games this season at home. Last season, this team coughed up 17 wins from 41 games.

HellooOooOoo !! Earth to Avs fans. Come in Avs fans.

We have the most accepting, passive group of fans in the league. In fact, I feel there is a large component that actually excuse, accept & just think it's now common practice to lose 8 games out of every 10.

"I like our players". Joe, those same player are doing their best to ruin any chance of a long term career you thought you may have had. If he were Peter Parker, and didn't have such a sensational NHL career, he would have already been well and truly driven out of Denver.

He's a dunce, as far as GM'ing goes. If only fans would be passionate enough to make a stand at Pepsi center, and let them know about it.

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03-03-2017, 09:04 PM
  #117
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Does nothing if they only get rid of Sakic and nobody else

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03-03-2017, 09:07 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
Does nothing if they only get rid of Sakic and nobody else
This. They need a complete overhaul to move forward in my opinion. Top-to-bottom.

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03-03-2017, 09:11 PM
  #119
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Does nothing if they only get rid of Sakic and nobody else
Absolutely right TV.

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03-03-2017, 10:40 PM
  #120
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I don't think I've ever been this down on the Avs, ever. I just don't see any light at the end of the tunnel.

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03-03-2017, 11:35 PM
  #121
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I don't think I've ever been this down on the Avs, ever. I just don't see any light at the end of the tunnel.
It's embarrassing is what it is. So many of their stupid tendencies and policies and they don't realize just how far behind the rest of the league they are.

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03-04-2017, 07:28 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
Does nothing if they only get rid of Sakic and nobody else
FIRE EVERYONE!

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03-04-2017, 10:37 AM
  #123
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I don't think I've ever been this down on the Avs, ever. I just don't see any light at the end of the tunnel.
Yeah, same here ! Never have I felt so bad about the Avs and I've been following them since 1999.

I've never seen them play this terrible. Ever. This will go down as their worst year in franchise history since relocating to Denver. There's just truly nothing that can describe what we've had to watch as fans this year.

And as you say, it just doesn't seem like it'll get better any sooner. I think the only way to go about it is to tear everything down in the organisation, replace everyone and start from zero: obviously keeping our most recent picks: Mackinnon, Rantanen, Jost and 2017 pick.

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03-04-2017, 10:54 AM
  #124
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Yeah, same here ! Never have I felt so bad about the Avs and I've been following them since 1999.

I've never seen them play this terrible. Ever. This will go down as their worst year in franchise history since relocating to Denver. There's just truly nothing that can describe what we've had to watch as fans this year.

And as you say, it just doesn't seem like it'll get better any sooner. I think the only way to go about it is to tear everything down in the organisation, replace everyone and start from zero: obviously keeping our most recent picks: Mackinnon, Rantanen, Jost and 2017 pick.
Not even the on ice product. Sure it's horrible, but until we clear house in management I don't see us going anywhere. And combine that with our ownership not caring and not having the hardcore fan base to apply pressure for change...

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03-04-2017, 11:00 AM
  #125
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Well I have had 0 faith in Roy/Sakic for 2.5 years now. So I am not as pissed off as others in here. But it really gets harder and harder to care for the Avalanche if they keep screwing up year after year and deadline after deadline.

I have some semblance of hope that a historically bad end result might force Kroenke to do something. So I guess losing a few more games is our best shot right now...

I mean it is really pathetic that we don't even go with a youth movement right now.

Just shows how clueless our GM and front office is right now. That they never had any kind of plan and that they don't intend to change that. Avs don't do philosophy, asset management or thinking towards the future. We only go season by season and hope for things to magically change somehow.

What is the point of playing John Mitchell, Fedor Tyutin and Rene Bourque right now?


I am somewhat pleased that the media seems to have turned on Sakic. That is very important.

Avs really need to clean house. Very small chance that happens. But if it happens, it will certainly have to be because of "outside" pressure.

This organisation will never come close to fixing itself from within.

So I wouldn't mind a few Sakic jerseys thrown on the ice or a few paper bags.

I don't like that kind of behavior but it is probably our only hope for change.

Kroenke will only react if the PR gets too bad. He does not care much about many other things...

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