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Old
06-28-2016, 02:54 PM
  #26
Habaneros
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Montreal ALWAYS has to pay more due to TAXES

For example look at what Toronto has to offer Stamkos to equal what he'd make in Tampa.
Same with Shaw yeah he'd take 3.3 with Hawks ..He'd need 3.9 with Habs to equal it likely ....


$8.5 million in Tampa is $12.37 million in Toronto ...

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/st...-trade-option/

Quote:
And Stamkos' hometown Maple Leafs, due to a 53.53 percent combined federal/provincial tax rate, would have to offer him $12.37 million annually over seven years to net the same as he'd make over eight years at $8.5 million in Tampa, according to national sports tax guru Robert Raiola, the director of the Sports and Entertainment group at PKF O'Connor Davis, who has professional sports clients throughout the country.

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06-28-2016, 02:56 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Over the life of Shaws contract we have to remember the % of cap space 3.9M represents will continue to shrink. If we assume a cap increase of 5% a year over the total term of this deal, this is how his cap % would be (I didn't have the aid of a calculator, I was doing the numbers long hand so I rounded numbers off).

Year 1-contract represents 5.3% of team cap. In terms of 2016-2017 cap dollars that works out to 3.9M against a $73M cap.

Year 2-contract represents 5.03% of team cap. In terms of 2016-2017 cap dollars that would be like a 3.67M cap hit.

Year 3-contract represents 4.77% of team cap. In terms of 2016-2017 cap dollars that would be like a 3.48M cap hit.

Year 4-contract represents 4.53% of team cap. In terms of 2016-2017 cap dollars that would be like a 3.30M cap hit.

Year 5-contract represents 4.30% of team cap. In terms of 2016-2017 cap dollars that would be like a 3.14M cap hit.

Year 6-contract represents 4.08% of team cap. In terms of 2016-2017 cap dollars that would be like a 2.97M cap hit.
Wish we saw more posts like these. Useful information that helps us gauge the quality of this signing in the long run based on 16-17 cap dollars. Thank you.

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Old
06-28-2016, 02:58 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Montreal ALWAYS has to pay more due to TAXES
This and I'm sure we added a few bucks to have total control over the asset for the duration of the contract. That's huge going forward.

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06-28-2016, 03:00 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Montreal ALWAYS has to pay more due to TAXES

For example look at what Toronto has to offer Stamkos to equal what he'd make in Tampa.
Same with Shaw yeah he'd take 3.3 with Hawks ..He'd need 3.9 with Habs to equal it likely ....


$8.5 million in Tampa is $12.37 million in Toronto ...

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/st...-trade-option/
I guarantee you that, between different tax planning instruments and the benefits of being paid in American dollars in Canada, that difference is not even remotely as wide. The difference is that Montreal got no hometown discount.

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06-28-2016, 03:13 PM
  #30
JohnLennon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Montreal ALWAYS has to pay more due to TAXES

For example look at what Toronto has to offer Stamkos to equal what he'd make in Tampa.
Same with Shaw yeah he'd take 3.3 with Hawks ..He'd need 3.9 with Habs to equal it likely ....


$8.5 million in Tampa is $12.37 million in Toronto ...

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/st...-trade-option/
Great point. This is something to strongly consider if we assume a player will solely look at maximizing their income.

According to CapFriendly, Toronto has a net federal/provincial tax rate of 53.19% and Montreal has a net federal/provincial tax rate 53.08%. So technically, Toronto would actually take more in taxes from a potential contract with Stamkos than Montreal would, but not by much. Just thought I'd mention that because the common rhetoric is that Montreal taxes their players more than anyone else in the league.

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06-28-2016, 03:14 PM
  #31
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That contract breakdown makes me like this a lot more. Easy to unload him to a floor team in 3-4 years since the dollars will be low. And he can't say no since he has no such clauses.

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06-28-2016, 03:17 PM
  #32
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The basic premise of "role players" is supporting your teams stars in a legitimate push to win a Stanley Cup. You have no need for role players if you don't have a defined top 6 and no cup chance (like us). Our top 6 has been a jumbled messed for decades and especially last season. Eller was a top 6 guy for us a lot last season along with Carr, Adrighetto, DD, Plek, MaxPac, Chucky, Byron, Weise, DSP, Gally. We don't need role players.

We need top 6 and should be doing everything to consolidate assets to accomplish this. And with each bottom 6 type player we lock down to expensive contracts and every high draft pick we trade away, that just reduces the amount of assets available to acquire a top 6 player.

Trading for Shaw only makes sense if we dump DD and Plek and Mitchell/Flynn and somehow acquire a decent top 6 center and top 6 winger. I don't see it happening though.

I see another season of:
"Is Plek our top line center?"
"DD's hot so let's center MaxPac again"
"Chucky had one bad game, so he's back to wing (because he asked)"
"DD has 1 PP point in the last 46 games, why does he still get sheltered minutes?"
"(Random grinder XYX) has scored 3 goals in 10 games, let's promote him to the top 6 with PP time".

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06-28-2016, 03:17 PM
  #33
Tim Raines
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I know this would get shot down out of hand by other teams, but I think cap hits should be tax adjusted.

ie. Your cap hit is your "after tax" salary and the cap is adjusted accordingly.

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06-28-2016, 03:19 PM
  #34
lou4gehrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
That contract breakdown makes me like this a lot more. Easy to unload him to a floor team in 3-4 years since the dollars will be low. And he can't say no since he has no such clauses.
Like DD right?

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06-28-2016, 03:24 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Like DD right?
DD's contract is 3.5 per year for 4 years. Not the same thing at all.

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Old
06-28-2016, 03:30 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Montreal ALWAYS has to pay more due to TAXES
Taxes are high in Montreal, New York, Philadelphia, California, etc.

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06-28-2016, 03:32 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Like DD right?
Players like Shaw are always in demand.

Players like DD are always in demand in the AHL; at this level he has a negative value.

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06-28-2016, 03:37 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
Very good post. But 5% by year seems to me a bit high. This year, cap raised of only 2,4%...
Ya maybe I should of used 3-4% or so, but was using easier numbers. The point being the salary in a way becomes less and less each year. So a 3.9M salary signed today should look better against the cap each of those 6 years.

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06-28-2016, 03:39 PM
  #39
lou4gehrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Montreal ALWAYS has to pay more due to TAXES

For example look at what Toronto has to offer Stamkos to equal what he'd make in Tampa.
Same with Shaw yeah he'd take 3.3 with Hawks ..He'd need 3.9 with Habs to equal it likely ....


$8.5 million in Tampa is $12.37 million in Toronto ...

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/st...-trade-option/
From straight salary yes, but endorsement opportunities in Toronto/Montreal vs. Tampa 10x greater. Stamkos could walk down the street in Tampa and maybe 5% of the people would even recognize him.

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06-28-2016, 03:40 PM
  #40
lou4gehrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agalloch View Post
DD's contract is 3.5 per year for 4 years. Not the same thing at all.
3.5 for 4 years vs. 3.9 for 6 years

Both are undersized players with deals signed at the absolute peak of their performance level.

Yeah, not the same thing at all.

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Old
06-28-2016, 03:50 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Deebs View Post
Jesus Christ... I know it's good in because you can dump the contract after a few years but if i was Molson i would be livid right now.

He's gonna hand him over 10M over the next 2 seasons what a joke!

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06-28-2016, 03:53 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Jesus Christ... I know it's good in because you can dump the contract after a few years but if i was Molson i would be livid right now.

He's gonna hand him over 10M over the next 2 seasons what a joke!
Sucks for Molson, but it's great for the fans. It will be an easy contract to trade in 3-4 years if Shaw slows down.

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06-28-2016, 03:53 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
3.5 for 4 years vs. 3.9 for 6 years

Both are undersized players with deals signed at the absolute peak of their performance level.

Yeah, not the same thing at all.
Talking about SALARY not cap hit.

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Old
06-28-2016, 03:53 PM
  #44
Habaneros
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Originally Posted by Captain Wolverine View Post
I guarantee you that, between different tax planning instruments and the benefits of being paid in American dollars in Canada, that difference is not even remotely as wide. The difference is that Montreal got no hometown discount.

Are you saying Robert Raiola is wrong ?

Quote:
And Stamkos' hometown Maple Leafs, due to a 53.53 percent combined federal/provincial tax rate, would have to offer him $12.37 million annually over seven years to net the same as he'd make over eight years at $8.5 million in Tampa, according to national sports tax guru Robert Raiola, the director of the Sports and Entertainment group at PKF O'Connor Davis, who has professional sports clients throughout the country.

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Old
06-28-2016, 03:59 PM
  #45
Habaneros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Jesus Christ... I know it's good in because you can dump the contract after a few years but if i was Molson i would be livid right now.

He's gonna hand him over 10M over the next 2 seasons what a joke!
How much will Molson make if Habs win the Cup with Shaw playing a big role in that?

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Old
06-28-2016, 04:01 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Tim Raines View Post
I know this would get shot down out of hand by other teams, but I think cap hits should be tax adjusted.

ie. Your cap hit is your "after tax" salary and the cap is adjusted accordingly.
So what happens if one guy has a better accountant and gets a lower rate. What happens if one guy donates a lot of money and gets a tax break and another doesn't.

It also doesn't even fix the issue since players make a lot of money through endorsements and those will still effect a player whose concerned about maximizing money.

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06-28-2016, 04:07 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Are you saying Robert Raiola is wrong ?
Over 1.2m of that supposed 12.37m is purely because he's comparing a 7 year contract to an 8 year one. It's really completely dishonest of the guy.

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Old
06-28-2016, 04:07 PM
  #48
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Fosberg 36M for 6 years, I'd rather have that.


Last edited by la25ecoupe: 06-28-2016 at 04:29 PM.
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Old
06-28-2016, 04:08 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by la25ecoupe View Post
Fosberg 36M for 6 years, I'd rather have that.
Welcome to the everybody club, population everybody?

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Old
06-28-2016, 04:10 PM
  #50
Habaneros
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Originally Posted by la25ecoupe View Post
Fosberg 36M for 6 years, I'd rather have that.
As i said earlier, you think Habs can lock up Gally27 at 6 x 36 like Nashville just did with Forsberg? I personally say no ...

Gally27 goes hot this year...look out...Price of doing biz in Montreal./

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