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Old
06-28-2016, 04:14 PM
  #51
habalifeok
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Galchenyuk has a better year than Forsberg, hell why not?????
then we offer him the keys to Montreal and whatever he wants . Bring it!!!!!

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06-28-2016, 04:17 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by habalifeok View Post
Galchenyuk has a better year than Forsberg, hell why not?????
then we offer him the keys to Montreal and whatever he wants . Bring it!!!!!
Just saying Forsberg v Gally27 not much difference
Yet Nashville gets Forsberg 6 million for 6 years ...
In Montreal it will be 8.25 - 8.5 million over 6 years

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06-28-2016, 04:18 PM
  #53
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Ya maybe I should of used 3-4% or so, but was using easier numbers. The point being the salary in a way becomes less and less each year. So a 3.9M salary signed today should look better against the cap each of those 6 years.
Does Desharnais's 3.5m look better today then it did when he signed his extension? What about Emelin or Eller's? If you are overpaid the fact that it will goes down as a % doesn't really change that.

Considering Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk are likely to take up > 40% of the cap when their extensions are due, spending 4% on a role player isn't good idea.

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06-28-2016, 04:21 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Just saying Forsberg v Gally not much difference
Yet Nashville gets Forsberg 6 million for 6 years ...
In Montreal it will be 8.25 - 8.5 over 6 years
That's because we decided to give Galchenyuk a bridge deal. I'm pretty sure had we offered 6x6 after his ELC Galchenyuk would've accepted it.

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06-28-2016, 04:23 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Just saying Forsberg v Gally27 not much difference
Yet Nashville gets Forsberg 6 million for 6 years ...
In Montreal it will be 8.25 - 8.5 million over 6 years
Galchenyuk doesn't have the arguments to command a $8.25m/y contract, unless he readlly explodes this year. For sure, he'll be using Forbserg as comparable, adding one year of increased average salary should bring him in the $6.5 to $6.75m area per year, on a 5 or 6 year deal.

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06-28-2016, 04:29 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by KomicJ View Post
Galchenyuk doesn't have the arguments to command a $8.25m/y contract, unless he readlly explodes this year. For sure, he'll be using Forbserg as comparable, adding one year of increased average salary should bring him in the $6.5 to $6.75m area per year, on a 5 or 6 year deal.
Habs are goona face tough decisions..soon

I mean if Stamkos gets 12 million,raises the bar...

What is Price goona get ? 11 -12 million per
Subban at 9 million per
Gally27 at 8 Million per
Pacman at 9 Million per....


Boys goona be some young dudes on line 3 and 4 , or some buddy big gotta go ..We can't afford the luxury of so many making 8 to 12 million ...


Last edited by Habaneros: 06-28-2016 at 04:35 PM.
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06-28-2016, 04:32 PM
  #57
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Image if we offered:

To Washington: Eller and Bourque
To Canadiens: Filip Forsberg

Caps would have won the cup, and we would have Gally27 and Fosb9

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06-28-2016, 04:34 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Just saying Forsberg v Gally27 not much difference
Yet Nashville gets Forsberg 6 million for 6 years ...
In Montreal it will be 8.25 - 8.5 million over 6 years
[MOD]Galchenyuk will get 10 times the endorsments deals in Montreal that Forsberg will get in Nashville.

Chucky won't get much more than Forsberg. Taxes in the states get trumped by endorsement deals in Canada.

Even a player like Weise got endorsements here. He wiuld never have gotten that outside of Canada.


Last edited by Frenchy: 06-28-2016 at 07:18 PM. Reason: PM sent
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Old
06-28-2016, 04:39 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Does Desharnais's 3.5m look better today then it did when he signed his extension? What about Emelin or Eller's? If you are overpaid the fact that it will goes down as a % doesn't really change that.

Considering Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk are likely to take up > 40% of the cap when their extensions are due, spending 4% on a role player isn't good idea.
Lets see...with everybody's extension, you're probably looking at something like this:

Pacioretty $8.5m - Galchenyuk $6.8m - XXX
XXX - XXX - Gallagher $3.75m
XXX - XXX - Shaw $3.9m
XXX - XXX - XXX
Extras: XXX - XXX

XXX - Subban $9.0m
XXX - XXX
XXX - XXX
Extra: XXX

Price $12.0m
XXX

Without ANY increase in salary cap, it would leave us with roughly $29.05m to fill 17 spots, so an average of $1.7m per spot.

Consider extras and backup goaltender at, say $900k each...you're left with $25.45m for 8 forwards and 5 defenseman, to a $1.95m average each.

Add possible starters to entry level contract (Scherbak, Sergachev, etc) that average is now above $2.0m per spots.

You're probably not gonna give $2.0m to any of your fourth line players, nor your third pairing-d...it raises even more. And remember, this is with a salary cap stalled at $73.0m.

Shaw's contract, by itself, is not an issue. And even if it becomes one, that $3.9m is easily movable via a trade, or easy to deal with through a buyout. It's really not the apocalypse some are making it sound to be.

Every team can afford one or two of those 'luxury' bottom-6 forwards / bottom-3 defensemen. The problem WE have right now, is that we have Shaw...AND Desharnais AND Emelin.

Shaw is being paid like the 'luxury' energy trype of grinder that he is.
Desharnais is being paid like a third line center, when he doesn't fit the mold.
Emelin is being paid like a #3 (although one could argue he's being paid like a 'luxury' 4th) while he's in fact a #5.

Shaw's cotract isn't a liability. Desharnais and Emelin's are.

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06-28-2016, 04:44 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Habs are goona face tough decisions..soon

I mean if Stamkos gets 12 million,raises the bar...

What is Price goona get ? 11 -12 million per
Subban at 9 million per
Gally27 at 8 Million per
Pacman at 9 Million per....


Boys goona be some young dudes on line 3 and 4 , or some buddy big gotta go ..We can't afford the luxury of so many making 8 to 12 million ...
[MOD]

Pacioretty will not get more than 7-8. He'll be 30 closing on 31 when he'll sign his new contract. If it's for 8 years, his cap hit will be lower because of the latter years of the contract.

Price's new contract will start when he'll be 30 yold, so it's the same situation as Pacioretty, the cap hit will be lowered by the latter years of the contract.

As for Galchenyuk, he won't get much more than Forsberg no matter if you can't get into your head the simple fact that Forsberg will never get as many endorsement deals that Galchenyuk will get in Montreal.


Last edited by Frenchy: 06-28-2016 at 07:20 PM.
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Old
06-28-2016, 04:49 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
[MOD]

Pacioretty will not get more than 7-8. He'll be 30 closing on 31 when he'll sign his new contract. If it's for 8 years, his cap hit will be lower because of the latter years of the contract.

Price's new contract will start when he'll be 30 yold, so it's the same situation as Pacioretty, the cap hit will be lowered by the latter years of the contract.

As for Galchenyuk, he won't get much more than Forsberg no matter if you can't get into your head the simple fact that Forsberg will never get as many endorsement deals that Galchenyuk will get in Montreal.
[MOD] Not sure I'm following your point here...


Last edited by Frenchy: 06-28-2016 at 07:21 PM. Reason: qep
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Old
06-28-2016, 04:55 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by KomicJ View Post
Lets see...with everybody's extension, you're probably looking at something like this:

Pacioretty $8.5m - Galchenyuk $6.8m - XXX
XXX - XXX - Gallagher $3.75m
XXX - XXX - Shaw $3.9m
XXX - XXX - XXX
Extras: XXX - XXX

XXX - Subban $9.0m
XXX - XXX
XXX - XXX
Extra: XXX

Price $12.0m
XXX

Without ANY increase in salary cap, it would leave us with roughly $29.05m to fill 17 spots, so an average of $1.7m per spot.

Consider extras and backup goaltender at, say $900k each...you're left with $25.45m for 8 forwards and 5 defenseman, to a $1.95m average each.

Add possible starters to entry level contract (Scherbak, Sergachev, etc) that average is now above $2.0m per spots.

You're probably not gonna give $2.0m to any of your fourth line players, nor your third pairing-d...it raises even more. And remember, this is with a salary cap stalled at $73.0m.

Shaw's contract, by itself, is not an issue. And even if it becomes one, that $3.9m is easily movable via a trade, or easy to deal with through a buyout. It's really not the apocalypse some are making it sound to be.

Every team can afford one or two of those 'luxury' bottom-6 forwards / bottom-3 defensemen. The problem WE have right now, is that we have Shaw...AND Desharnais AND Emelin.

Shaw is being paid like the 'luxury' energy trype of grinder that he is.
Desharnais is being paid like a third line center, when he doesn't fit the mold.
Emelin is being paid like a #3 (although one could argue he's being paid like a 'luxury' 4th) while he's in fact a #5.

Shaw's cotract isn't a liability. Desharnais and Emelin's are.
That's the problem. We need 3 more top-six guys and 3 more top-4 D (You should have included Petry at 5.5) and it's 1.7m per spot. That's a tiny about especially when we give 4th liners like Mitchell/Byron 1.2m (Sure they will be gone, but they'll get replace by other vets making over 1m).

And Shaw is getting paid like a top-6 forward which he isn't. I mean do you really think a #3 D gets paid the same amount as a luxury 3rd liner? Because Emelin and Shaw get paid nearly the same amount.

EDIT: Having one overpaid player is never a liability. But the GM has a history of overpaying players, and Shaw is just one more example of that.

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06-28-2016, 04:55 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by la25ecoupe View Post
Image if we offered:

To Washington: Eller and Bourque
To Canadiens: Filip Forsberg

Caps would have won the cup, and we would have Gally27 and Fosb9
They traded him for an offensive Dman, neither Eller or Bourque are.

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06-28-2016, 04:57 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Habs are goona face tough decisions..soon

I mean if Stamkos gets 12 million,raises the bar...

What is Price goona get ? 11 -12 million per
Subban at 9 million per
Gally27 at 8 Million per
Pacman at 9 Million per...

Boys goona be some young dudes on line 3 and 4 , or some buddy big gotta go ..We can't afford the luxury of so many making 8 to 12 million ...
Nobody will ever pay a goalie 12 million in a cap worl below 80 million

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06-28-2016, 04:58 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
They traded him for an offensive Dman, neither Eller or Bourque are.
Thought it was Erat

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06-28-2016, 05:04 PM
  #66
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[MOD] Not sure I'm following your point here...
I've been adamant about firing Bougerien for some time now, but you jumped to the conclusions that 1- i think the Shaw contract is a liability 2- that i need to be a cap fearmongerer to find arguments against MB.

Shaw only makes 400k more than Eller. And out of all the contracts which will end in the next 2 seasons, Eller's was one of the least costly. Signing Shaw doesnt stop us from signing a big ufa. Bergevin does.

Oh and btw, his salary predictions are the perfect excuse for MB only signing long term grinders to mid level contracts. "We need to keep money to re-sign our core bleet bleet bleet".

That was spouted by MB as an excuse to not use FA


Last edited by Frenchy: 06-28-2016 at 07:22 PM. Reason: qep
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06-28-2016, 05:05 PM
  #67
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06-28-2016, 05:15 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Are you saying Robert Raiola is wrong ?
Depends on the question that was asked. If it was "how much would Toronto need to pay Stamkos for him to get the same after-tax income as he'd make eight years at $8.5 million in Tampa?" its correct. If the question was, "including tax planning instruments, including but not limited to corporate tax vehicles and residential taxation strategies, along with adjustments related to being paid in Canada with a salary pegged by the US Dollar, how much would Toronto need to pay Stamkos for him to get the same after-tax income as he'd make eight years at $8.5 million in Tampa?", it would be incorrect.

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06-28-2016, 05:16 PM
  #69
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the Cult of Eller is a alive and well. Getting two seconds for him is AMAZING value. Dude sucks.

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06-28-2016, 05:21 PM
  #70
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Getting two seconds for him is AMAZING value.
Yes

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Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
Dude sucks.
No.

The best team in the whole league gave up 2 2nd rounders to get him. I'm pretty sure he does not "suck".

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06-28-2016, 05:24 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I've been adamant about firing Bougerien for some time now, but you jumped to the conclusions that 1- i think the Shaw contract is a liability 2- that i need to be a cap fearmongerer to find arguments against MB.

Shaw only makes 400k more than Eller. And out of all the contracts which will end in the next 2 seasons, Eller's was one of the least costly. Signing Shaw doesnt stop us from signing a big ufa. Bergevin does.

Oh and btw, his salary predictions are the perfect excuse for MB only signing long term grinders to mid level contracts. "We need to keep money to re-sign our core bleet bleet bleet".

That was spouted by MB as an excuse to not use FA
Okay, now I get you. We're 100% in agreement here, that's pretty much what I've been saying all along.

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06-28-2016, 07:02 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Hope Of Glory View Post
Yes



No.

The best team in the whole league gave up 2 2nd rounders to get him. I'm pretty sure he does not "suck".
The best team in the league this previous season knows that there can be more offensively inept centers for the third line. Winnik and Richards sure helped them fail.

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06-28-2016, 07:25 PM
  #73
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If Shaw is his only move, youll have a point. But maybe, just maybe, MB knows what hes doing, as evidenced by the fact that hes moved out Eller in conjunction with adding Shaw and has accumulated $7.4 million in cap space to use on UFA day in 3 days. Maybe Shaw was part of the plan, and a UFA is another, larger part but won't be physically possible until Friday.
He's repeatedly said that he's not a July 1st GM and that the price of those guys is too high. In his end of year press conference he even said his aim was to acquire more depth scorers. Why should anyone expect things to be different?

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06-28-2016, 07:27 PM
  #74
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Anyway, Andrew Shaw might provide some energy and grit for two years, but then he will expire as aging and the fact that he will either lose the skill players around him or our youth will pass him over in the top 6.

6 years is three to four years too many, and the cap hit will be painful as he experiences a near-guaranteed decline in production as he wanders into a more offensively limiting system and less talent around him, unless he because Galchenyuk's buddy, and in that case, one must wonder what Therrien is smoking, and it would likely be a fresh supply of DD-Pacioretty Kool-Aid.

Andrew Shaw received sufficient power play duties in Chicago to net about 8-10 points a season. Strip him completely of PP time, or if our strategy remain ineffective even with Muller, and knock his expected point totals down by 5-8. So he's in the mid 20s range.

More disturbing is how many of his points involved at least one "skilled" player compared to how many are with prospects or career grinders. He typically scores the majority of his points with the skill guys. Thus, if he is plopped with other third liners, one must lower expectations further about how much offense he can really provide. About 20 of his points this season came with Chicago's primer scoring players. If he produces half at that amount as a third liner full time, that means he's about a mid-20 point producer.

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06-28-2016, 07:34 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Habs are goona face tough decisions..soon

I mean if Stamkos gets 12 million,raises the bar...

What is Price goona get ? 11 -12 million per
Subban at 9 million per
Gally27 at 8 Million per
Pacman at 9 Million per....


Boys goona be some young dudes on line 3 and 4 , or some buddy big gotta go ..We can't afford the luxury of so many making 8 to 12 million ...
Gally27 at $6-$6.5.M for 6-7 years.

Patches you trade in 2 years, and I like the guy.

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