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Nathan Beaulieu Part III

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Old
10-23-2016, 03:21 PM
  #26
ROEN
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Beaulieu is tough to evaluate at this point, anyone here who says he's plateau'd at 24 forget the amount of times we've heard coaches, GM and head scouts mention the peaking of a Defenceman usually coming in his late 20s early 30s, I also remember how difficult it is for this team, historically, to develop D-Men or to properly assess their potential.

However, giving Bealieu the extra ice-time has exposed flaws, that being said, we've seen flaws with JM Liles yesterday, Ekman Larson the game before etc ... etc ... So defensive flaws with experienced and elite young D's is not uncommon.

What worries me the most with Beaulieu is the mental, sometimes you feel like you're dealing with a Lars Eller on defense.


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10-23-2016, 03:22 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Andrei79 View Post
For a place that always wants its young players to get a chance HF really has no patience with them.
You want to at least see baby steps. We're not talking about a guy fresh out of junior. When beaulieu coughed up the puck against Arizona, you just can't play the "young"card anymore.

Now, if people are getting on sergechev when it happened to him in the same game, I agree that we need more patience. Certainly, I gave him much more of a pass than beaulieu. The expectations should be higher for him at this point.

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10-23-2016, 03:32 PM
  #28
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Some people around here need to take a chill pill and realize that in spite of the time Beaulieu spent on this time so far, he's never seen the amount of ice-time he's been seeing regularly since the beginning of the year.

In essence, he's very much still a rookie in some regards. Especially being paired with Weber and facing tough competition. There's a learning curve. There's going to be growing pains. No one expected Beaulieu to fit in a like a glove on the first pair right away, he's the best of what we've got, not Josi 2.0. But you need to give him a chance to develop in the right kind of environment, and punishing him after last night's boneheaded play at the end is quite possibly the worst thing one could do.

He needs to feel that he has his coach's confidence, that he's not going to get demoted after every single mistake, and show that he can learn from it. Once he builds up that confidence, I know he'll be very effective as a complimentary player to Weber. And I think he already shown glimpses of it this season. Absolutely laughable to read some people saying he's been horrible since the beginning of the year.

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10-23-2016, 03:40 PM
  #29
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We need to keep giving him ice time. When his confidence is high we see what he can do. This season will be about building consistency for him with top minutes and matchings. First 5 games means nothing, lets evaluate him 20, 30, 40, 50 games down the line while playing these sorts of match ups and minutes, see his progression.

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10-23-2016, 03:50 PM
  #30
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Some people around here need to take a chill pill and realize that in spite of the time Beaulieu spent on this time so far, he's never seen the amount of ice-time he's been seeing regularly since the beginning of the year.

In essence, he's very much still a rookie in some regards. Especially being paired with Weber and facing tough competition. There's a learning curve. There's going to be growing pains. No one expected Beaulieu to fit in a like a glove on the first pair right away, he's the best of what we've got, not Josi 2.0. But you need to give him a chance to develop in the right kind of environment, and punishing him after last night's boneheaded play at the end is quite possibly the worst thing one could do.

He needs to feel that he has his coach's confidence, that he's not going to get demoted after every single mistake, and show that he can learn from it. Once he builds up that confidence, I know he'll be very effective as a complimentary player to Weber. And I think he already shown glimpses of it this season. Absolutely laughable to read some people saying he's been horrible since the beginning of the year.
He can do ALL the mistakes he can based on play going too fast, or players he's facing being better. Absolutely no problem with that. And he shouldn't skip a shift because of that. But NOBODY should be stupid enough because of their own greed. No penalties, no decisions that is based on your own personal revenge or own personal goals, should be accepted. And frankly, age has nothiong to do with that. That's something you learn at 12 years old.

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Old
10-23-2016, 03:52 PM
  #31
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He had a rough one last night, but I have to disagree with you regarding the earlier games. He's done a lot of good things and even though I don't think he's the answer long term, to not give him props over the past few games would be wrong.
He has been bad every game......just more subtle things that the average fan can't see. I realize I am wading in the shallow end of the pool on these boards........

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10-23-2016, 03:56 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
He can do ALL the mistakes he can based on play going too fast, or players he's facing being better. Absolutely no problem with that. And he shouldn't skip a shift because of that. But NOBODY should be stupid enough because of their own greed. No penalties, no decisions that is based on your own personal revenge or own personal goals, should be accepted. And frankly, age has nothiong to do with that. That's something you learn at 12 years old.
And I'm sure the coach will have a talk with him about it.

The camera panned to Beaulieu's face after he made it back to the bench and it was very apparent he knew he had messed up.

You give him a talk, make sure he understands what's required of him given his role on the team, and the very next time a similar situation arises where we're defending a lead with an empty net, you put him back out there.

Guaranteed he doesn't make the same mistake again, and he most likely gains respect and trust for his coach in the process.

Punish him, and you just shatter his confidence once more. He's young. Stupidly young by defensemen standards. It'll take time.

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10-23-2016, 04:02 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
And I'm sure the coach will have a talk with him about it.

The camera panned to Beaulieu's face after he made it back to the bench and it was very apparent he knew he had messed up.

You give him a talk, make sure he understands what's required of him given his role on the team, and the very next time a similar situation arises where we're defending a lead with an empty net, you put him back out there.

Guaranteed he doesn't make the same mistake again, and he most likely gains respect and trust for his coach in the process.

Punish him, and you just shatter his confidence once more. He's young. Stupidly young by defensemen standards. It'll take time.
Sure. Fine. We all know he was talked to. Big time. But it will be easier to swallow because we won. End result is different....I won't go as far as to say that he wouldn't be playing....but he would have had such a shorter leash. Again, it has nothing to do with normal mistakes. Nothing whatsoever.

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10-23-2016, 04:05 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Sure. Fine. We all know he was talked to. Big time. But it will be easier to swallow because we won. End result is different....I won't go as far as to say that he wouldn't be playing....but he would have had such a shorter leash. Again, it has nothing to do with normal mistakes. Nothing whatsoever.
And if you capitalize on these moments as a coach and see them as an opportunity for growth rather than hammering on a player's head, that's when development and improvement happens.

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Old
10-23-2016, 04:06 PM
  #35
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And if you capitalize on these moments as a coach and see them as an opportunity for growth rather than hammering on a player's head, that's when development and improvement happens.
I hope that's what Therrien is all about now. Or if not him, let's wish Muller and/or Daigneault are.

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10-23-2016, 04:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
He has been bad every game......just more subtle things that the average fan can't see. I realize I am wading in the shallow end of the pool on these boards........
www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart

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10-23-2016, 04:24 PM
  #37
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Beaulieu has played his first five games on the first pairing, which not only means that he has a larger workload than he's ever had at the NHL level, but he is also facing the opposing teams' top players. There are bound to be growing pains as he becomes more accustomed to his new role.

We can't judge his play on a per-game basis. He is in a transition phase right now, and so it makes more sense to evaluate his progression over the long-term this season. I personally believe he has been filling his role adequately and am confident he has room to grow. I think he will continue to improve.

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10-23-2016, 04:54 PM
  #38
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perfect

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Old
10-23-2016, 09:46 PM
  #39
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Beaulieu played on the first pairing last year with Subban, so it's not like he's never done this before and yet he's still making the same mistakes. Hopefully over time he can improve on these issues, to me when I question someone's smarts, to me it's not something you can really teach so I don't know what the solution is. For now we scoring but that won't last all season so when the goals come back down, these mistakes are going to become much more noticeable and costly. I think some reading this and pushing for Sergachev to make the team, should consider that while he would be given more of a leash by fans, it will get ugly quickly around here once we start losing a few.

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10-24-2016, 12:20 AM
  #40
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Beaulieu played on the first pairing last year with Subban, so it's not like he's never done this before and yet he's still making the same mistakes. Hopefully over time he can improve on these issues, to me when I question someone's smarts, to me it's not something you can really teach so I don't know what the solution is. For now we scoring but that won't last all season so when the goals come back down, these mistakes are going to become much more noticeable and costly. I think some reading this and pushing for Sergachev to make the team, should consider that while he would be given more of a leash by fans, it will get ugly quickly around here once we start losing a few.
How many games did he play on the first pairing with Subban? I don't remember him playing a lot there

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Old
10-24-2016, 12:38 AM
  #41
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Beaulieu is 24 in 1 month, he's played over 151 games. I don't see him improving. He's actually a veteran. Gostisbehere is the same age and played half as many games as Beaulieu but looks like a player who's been in the league for 10 years. Its called hockey sense. A player with hockey sense will dump the puck in when we are up by 2 with 1 minute left. Instead Beaulieu tried to shot through 4 Bruins for the empty net?
Resulted in turn over and Weber had to dump Marchaud or else its 4-3.

Klingberg is another player at the same age and same games played. He's a top pairing d on Dallas and makes smart plays.

My point is Beaulieu doesn't skate well, nor does he have hockey sense and smarts to make a good play. If you put him with Weber, Petry, he won't look out of place because those guys are covering up for his lack of hockey sense and decision making. If you put him with Emelin or Pateryn his lack of skills will be more evident. He shouldnt be playing 21 mins a night.
if you are expecting beaulieu to be a klingberg or Gostisbehere, then saddle up, you are going to be sorely disapointed.

its like me complaining galchenyuk sucks because tarasenko is better

and beaulieu doesn't skate well? dude....

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10-24-2016, 01:35 AM
  #42
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wow what is going on here. Beaulieu started last year on the 3rd pairing and our highest hope for him was to reach and play on a stable 2nd pairing. 1 year later he's on our 1st pairing and playing some really great hockey. Yeah he made a mistake, but good lord every one makes mistake, even Weber.

For me, imho , I would say that he's doing really great compared to last year and on the 1st pairing right now.

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10-24-2016, 02:43 AM
  #43
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Glad to see that the prediction that our man mountain and his aura of leadership are spontaneously transforming Nathan Beaulieu into Roman Josi, as was predicted by this board.

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10-24-2016, 04:10 AM
  #44
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Glad to see that the prediction that our man mountain and his aura of leadership are spontaneously transforming Nathan Beaulieu into Roman Josi, as was predicted by this board.
that's simply not true

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10-24-2016, 04:12 AM
  #45
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that's simply not true
What's simply not true?

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10-24-2016, 05:20 AM
  #46
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Beaulieu is tough to evaluate at this point, anyone here who says he's plateau'd at 24 forget the amount of times we've heard coaches, GM and head scouts mention the peaking of a Defenceman usually coming in his late 20s early 30s, I also remember how difficult it is for this team, historically, to develop D-Men or to properly assess their potential.

However, giving Bealieu the extra ice-time has exposed flaws, that being said, we've seen flaws with JM Liles yesterday, Ekman Larson the game before etc ... etc ... So defensive flaws with experienced and elite young D's is not uncommon.

What worries me the most with Beaulieu is the mental, sometimes you feel like you're dealing with a Lars Eller on defense.

To date, the evaluation is easy. He's not good enough for the role he is allotted in.

The tough part is figuring out if he will learn and not only get better, but good enough to be a top pairing D. I keep seeing the same mistakes year after year, but maybe the light goes off at some point. We could get into a situation later in the season where the habs look like they could give a good run at the cup with a solid addition or two. What if beaulieu does not show any developmental leaps by that time? You would have to think that the team would be obligated to look for an upgrade in that slot. Then where does beaulieu fit in that case?

Its something to monitor as the season progresses, at least.

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10-24-2016, 06:17 AM
  #47
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To date, the evaluation is easy. He's not good enough for the role he is allotted in.

The tough part is figuring out if he will learn and not only get better, but good enough to be a top pairing D. I keep seeing the same mistakes year after year, but maybe the light goes off at some point. We could get into a situation later in the season where the habs look like they could give a good run at the cup with a solid addition or two. What if beaulieu does not show any developmental leaps by that time? You would have to think that the team would be obligated to look for an upgrade in that slot. Then where does beaulieu fit in that case?

Its something to monitor as the season progresses, at least.
I'm not sure what people were expecting. Almost everyone back in the summer was hoping the Habs would play Beaulieu with Weber in order for Beaulieu to learn and progress. Almost no one believed that Beaulieu was already a #2 defenceman, and of course he isn't.

Nate also might NEVER be a true #2, first-pairing defenceman. Lots of teams split their top two defencemen on two pairs, and get 50 minutes of great play per night. The Habs ACTUAL #2 D is Jeff Petry. He's a hugely under-rated D, just lacking 50 point per year ability, but able to do anything else you would want. We have done this before with pretty good results. For four years, we split our two best Ds, Markov and Hamrlik, and for two of those years played Komisarek, a #3-4 at best, with Markov, and it generally worked.

In my mind, Beaulieu was a #5 with upside last year, and he is better this year after just a short time. Hopefully he continues to improve. But let's not forget that a learning curve was totally expected, he never faced top forwards most of the time before.

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10-24-2016, 07:00 AM
  #48
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I'm not sure what people were expecting. Almost everyone back in the summer was hoping the Habs would play Beaulieu with Weber in order for Beaulieu to learn and progress. Almost no one believed that Beaulieu was already a #2 defenceman, and of course he isn't.

Nate also might NEVER be a true #2, first-pairing defenceman. Lots of teams split their top two defencemen on two pairs, and get 50 minutes of great play per night. The Habs ACTUAL #2 D is Jeff Petry. He's a hugely under-rated D, just lacking 50 point per year ability, but able to do anything else you would want. We have done this before with pretty good results. For four years, we split our two best Ds, Markov and Hamrlik, and for two of those years played Komisarek, a #3-4 at best, with Markov, and it generally worked.

In my mind, Beaulieu was a #5 with upside last year, and he is better this year after just a short time. Hopefully he continues to improve. But let's not forget that a learning curve was totally expected, he never faced top forwards most of the time before.
It was similar last year for him as well. Beaulieu was moved up with Subban for a few games and at the start he looked good, but after a couple games similar things that are happening now started to creep in then and he was removed from the top pair and I believe sat within a couple games form being bumped down. Hopefully he can adjust because it throws a huge wrench in the D pairings if he cant play on the top pair.

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10-24-2016, 07:37 AM
  #49
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Glad to see that the prediction that our man mountain and his aura of leadership are spontaneously transforming Nathan Beaulieu into Roman Josi, as was predicted by this board.
What an intellectually dishonest post.

Beaulieu will improve playing alongside Weber. It won't magically happen after 5 games though.

Nashville-------------->

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10-24-2016, 07:39 AM
  #50
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What an intellectually dishonest post.

Beaulieu will improve playing alongside Weber. It won't magically happen after 5 games though.

Nashville-------------->
that, you do not know.

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